Project 1974 MGB GT - The Mustard (Mit) Mobility Scooter - After nearly 7yrs, The End (for me)

[rainagain]

Could you not fit a new pump with an inline filter?

[SiC]

Could you not fit a new pump with an inline filter?

The pump lives at the rear, just in front of the fuel tank. The fuel tank to the pump is a hard line, the output of the pump goes to a (old) rubber pipe and onto a hard line up front. Because of that hard line from the fuel tank to the pump, it's not easy to put a filter in.

 

I also do wonder if the rubber fuel pipe after the pump might be degrading inside and sending on crud too. I have a replacement for that too, so I can change that easy and soon enough.

 

In the engine bay, before the carbs, I put a fresh inline fuel filter. Tempted to cut it open and see how much crud has got there. I think it would tell me a fair bit.

 

Interesting to hear there is a filter in the pump inlet. Again this might be a bit dirty too. Definitely is taking more time and pumping for it to get up to pressure when key is turned on.

 

I have noticed that the back of the pump where the points are, has yellow tape marked Gas around it. So looks like someone DIY has been in there and fiddled with it at some point.

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

In the engine bay, before the carbs, I put a fresh inline fuel filter. Tempted to cut it open and see how much crud has got there. I think it would tell me a fair bit.

 

Get the clear ones in future. At a glance health check.

 

[SiC]

Get the clear ones in future. At a glance health check.

That's what I'm thinking of changing to. Any recommendations on filters? I was thinking of getting a general motor factor Autobar filter for like £1.50 or whatever they are.

 

 

The "Classic Gold" supplied from Moss is a silly translucent plastic.

[The_Equalizer]

Get the clear ones in future. At a glance health check.

 

 

Just as an aside, I had similar issue with an old 60s Jag. As my Uncle advised me at the time, "work from the back". He was correct in that it was the a rusty fuel tank that was the source of the bits causing rough running. Once the tank was flushed and sealed it was back to smooth running.

[SiC]

I acquired a quality* replacement fuel filter so I could cut the old one open.

 

 

Old filter innards. Not sure what this black crap is? Is it possibly enough to bung the pump up?

 

I guess it could the post pump flexible pipe breaking up inside?

 

 

 

The paper element seems pretty clean.

 

[SiC]

One notable thing I noticed is that there isn't any fuel in the filter and hardly any in the lines themselves. Is it possible for it all to evaporate in the space of a week?

[cort16]

It runs back to the tank I think.. it's certainly the case with my Cortina, which can make it a pain to start.

[Guest Hooli]

You have got the filter the right way around haven't you? there will be a little arrow moulded in it somewhere. Put the wrong way around then all the fuel runs back easier and all the dirt is hidden inside the paper bit.

[vulgalour]

That black stuff is usually a sealant in the tank that's breaking up.  Two ways to deal with it, the first being a filter before and after the pump which you change regularly because it blocks up a lot to start with.  The second solution is to remove, clean out and reseal the tank (or replace it with a new one).

[Eddie Honda]

I acquired a quality* replacement fuel filter so I could cut the old one open.

 

 

Just buy 'em in bulk

 

[Mally]

That black stuff is usually a sealant in the tank that's breaking up.  Two ways to deal with it, the first being a filter before and after the pump which you change regularly because it blocks up a lot to start with.  The second solution is to remove, clean out and reseal the tank (or replace it with a new one).

 

AFAIK He needs a new tank anyway

[vulgalour]

Probably best to just do that then if you can afford it, takes out a load of fannying about and stress.

[SiC]

I've been a bit of a busy bee this afternoon. Apart from the fuel filter replacement above, I got the fan belt changed - hopefully this will stop the squealing.

 

Next up was to change this piece of crap out that attaches the alternator to the main harness. I've been getting nervous that this may detach, short against the engine or body and cause a fire.

 

... To this much more appropriate fixing.

 

Now it was time to take the fuel pump off to have a look what is going on with it.

 

Before I went further, this rear spring hanger rust is getting me a bit nervous that it's going to need work on it soon.

 

One bolt on the clamp, a bango bolt, a jubilee clip and it was off.

 

Stripping it apart was pretty straightforward. I watched an old Johnathan Twist (MGB specialist in the states) showing how to strip it down before hand which helped. Pretty simple and straightforward construction though.

 

The points.

 

Yeah they're pretty worn and filthy. I gave them a good sanding down before putting it back together. Still some deep pitting on them though.

 

6 screws and the two halves cracked apart easy enough. Not sure that plastic film is supposed to be on the diaphragm? Left it on there just in case it is!

 

Inlet gauze was finer than I expected. Pretty clean though. Not sure if rust is getting through or coming off the tank. Certainly not course enough to get those lumps seen in the filter in my previous post there.

 

 

Hmm. This looks a pretty good match.

 

Which I guess is from here:

 

And it ended up in the flex pipe banjo too.

 

New flex pipe Vs old.

 

The insides of the old flex pipe were actually in pretty good nick. Couldn't see any damage to the internal of the pipe. Just the outer metal sheath that was rusted through.

 

Pump back together.

 

Quick test run. As its under 4a max current draw with a stalled coil, I reckon I can safely directly wire the pump thorough that impact switch. Also interesting to note that if the pump outlet is pressurised, it draws no power. But if the pump inlet is blocked, it stalls the pump with the solenoid on. Useful thing to remember to help determine if it's the inlet or outlet of the pump that's blocked.

[Video]

 

Fitted to the car.

 

I must get some paint and touch up the bottom of these wings. Not sure why this has been grinded/sanded back so much either.

 

Just admiring those wheel arches again.

 

Battery back in. Except this time I tried removing the wood blocks the previous owner put in the bottom. I quickly realised why they were there, as the battery is too wide on the bottom to fit. In this shot you can see the back end of the fuel pump in the bottom left.

 

Turned the ignition on. Clicking a lot quicker now with a slightly different tone. Sounds deeper and less tinny than before. After 10s of clicking it went quiet.

 

Then .... *Psssssssh*

 

Oh ffs. It's leaking out of the pressurised side. Not sure if it's the banjo bolt or the new flex pipe.

 

Disconnected the battery again and called it a day. Even the cat was wondering what I was upto at this time of night.

 

Given the crappy condition of the pump body, gasket, diaphragm and points, I'm just going to replace the whole damn thing. Pretty pee'd off with that pipe leaking too. Seems that everything I try and fix, ends up either breaking more or something else fails.

[Rusty_Rocket]

Bad luck re the leak! But I'm sure you're getting there and will end up with a very sorted car. The rust you mention really is very minor for a BL car of its age! But having said that, I'd treat it now before it gets worse. 

I use a product called Vactan, available on eBay. In fact my entire Defender chassis is painted in it! You can apply it and leave it unpainted. It is a rust converter but forms a hard water repellent finish. With nothing covering it, you can see exactly what's going on with the metal and if you get more rust, just rub it back and apply more Vactan. 

[SiC]

I'm starting to wonder if I put the Flexi pipe banjo on the wrong way around on the pump. I think I put the insert bit on the side of the pump and the flat section on the bolt head side. Reading up, that appears to be the wrong way around.

 

Weather is a bit too rubbish tonight to bother checking though.

[cort16]

Could you run a modern electric fuel pump? I'm sure a few people on here have replaced mechanical ones (I know this isn't mechanical) with a 15 quid ebay fuel pump.

The bit at the bottom of the wing is more likely a part that was prepped but missed when it's been painted. I've seen this a few times, my cortina didn't really have any paint in the sill when you got tight under it. Luckily it was still stone chipped.

[SiC]

Could you run a modern electric fuel pump? I'm sure a few people on here have replaced mechanical ones (I know this isn't mechanical) with a 15 quid ebay fuel pump.

The bit at the bottom of the wing is more likely a part that was prepped but missed when it's been painted. I've seen this a few times, my cortina didn't really have any paint in the sill when you got tight under it. Luckily it was still stone chipped.

I think you can but you need a fuel regulator, otherwise it'll be trying to pump against what effectively would be a total blockage when the float is up to the top. The alternative is to run a solid state pump, that has a plunger still like this:

 

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/fuel-pump-electronic-aftermarket-azx1307z.html

 

Except instead of the plunger solenoid being switched on and off by points, its actuated by a transistor and a hall-effect sensor to detect the movement.

 

Reading around on reviews for those pumps, they seem to work without complaint for years. No spares available but seem to be not needed.

[Mally]

I may have a set of new points in the loft will look tomorrow.

If you screw them too far on, or not enough it cocks the operation up.

Would replace pump like for like. Solid state will have too much pressure unless its specifically for the job.

If you buy the Moggy and fix the spring hanger the MG will be simple after that.

[Tickman]

I've had a standard SU pump in the Minor that has had about 10 years of use, sometimes daily other time parked up for weeks on end. 

It wasn't new when I got the car either. I am sure you will have it clicking away perfectly for years after a quick once over.

[Sigmund Fraud]

Oh ffs. It's leaking out of the pressurised side. Not sure if it's the banjo bolt or the new flex pipe.

 

[Junkman] It's because you replaced quality* BL parts with post-1986 reproductions [/Junkman]

 

Joking apart, owners of shite cars should ignore the old "if it's not broken, don't fix it" aphorism at their peril !

[SiC]

[Junkman] It's because you replaced quality* BL parts with post-1986 reproductions [/Junkman]

 

Joking apart, owners of shite cars should ignore the old "if it's not broken, don't fix it" aphorism at their peril !

I'm trying that! Problem is, when you're faced with a fuel hose pipe that when you bend it in half and the steel braiding crumbles, you can't help but replace it.

 

Just started a shopping list of around 75% of the bits I need on Watford Classic Car Parts and it's come to £311 already. I have closed that tab again.

 

It'll be my luck that they'll have a sale on as soon as I pluck up the courage to hit pay now.

 

Irritatingly Moss have a "sale" on, but even after discount they're still more expensive than others. I wish they were cheaper as they're very convenient being local. No postage and I don't have to buy everything at once to save postage costs.

[SiC]

I've had a standard SU pump in the Minor that has had about 10 years of use, sometimes daily other time parked up for weeks on end.

It wasn't new when I got the car either. I am sure you will have it clicking away perfectly for years after a quick once over.

Probably but it needs new diaphragm, gasket and points at least which will be around £50 with postage. For a tenner more than that it's possible to get a brand new purpose made solid state German made pump designed for the MGB.

 

Pump is pumping fuel happily. It's now happily pumping said fuel out of any weak point that can't handle the new pressure.

[stripped fred]

I mean this in a non sarcastic way SIC, more out of interest really, but are you enjoying this? I know you like fixing things and problems to solve. I bet it's a bit frustrating as I know you wanted something that just worked for a bit. I don't think it'll be long though before you start to get some use out of it. Maybe aim for the spring! You also have the advantage that it looks a good one and you're adding to its value, and reliability.

[twosmoke300]

Little tip for banjo bolts esp with new washers - tighten up as much as you dare then give the head of the bolt several sharp cracks with a small / medium hammer . You will be surprised how much more you can tighten the banjo then . I've found some modern copper washers need more force to crush them than the threads ( exp Into alloy or brass ) will stand .

[SiC]

I mean this in a non sarcastic way SIC, more out of interest really, but are you enjoying this? I know you like fixing things and problems to solve. I bet it's a bit frustrating as I know you wanted something that just worked for a bit. I don't think it'll be long though before you start to get some use out of it. Maybe aim for the spring! You also have the advantage that it looks a good one and you're adding to its value, and reliability.

Yes and no. I enjoy the learning, fiddling and tinkering, but I'm not enjoying the fact I can't use it and other stuff keeps breaking. Its not even possible to start it up to move it off the drive without it peeing fuel everywhere. Feels like a loosing battle at the moment.

 

I noticed yesterday that where the rain is sitting on the roof, it's leaving lighter coloured patches. Hopefully it's not etched itself into the paint.

 

After the fuel system is fixed I'm hoping that I will be able to at least drive it around locally again. Next big job is sorting the suspension out. Worn bushes and a non damping damper on the front, sagging springs and worn bushes on the rear. This I hoped I could have been sorting rather than the fuel system as the first project on it.

 

 

Little tip for banjo bolts esp with new washers - tighten up as much as you dare then give the head of the bolt several sharp cracks with a small / medium hammer . You will be surprised how much more you can tighten the banjo then . I've found some modern copper washers need more force to crush them than the threads ( exp Into alloy or brass ) will stand .

These are fibre washers, does the above still apply? I did tighten them up pretty tight but I could gorilla them down harder. I was using an adjustable spanner as I don't have an imperial spanner large enough to do them up. Hence I didn't want to do it too tight and round the heads off.

[twosmoke300]

Adjustable spanner - what are you are plumber ? 

[Guest Hooli]

Adjustable spanner - what are you are plumber ? 

 

Well he is doing pipes....

 

 

 

 

I always re-anneal copper washers before use, god knows how long they've been sitting around before you get your hands on them.

[SiC]

I knew there was a reason why I didn't put that parts order in yesterday!

http://www.msc.parts

 

New fuel tank and solid state pump ordered. Hopefully this will allow me to put the fuel system issues to rest and make it useable again. Apart from maybe some carb tinkering.

 

I left off the suspension and other bits off this order and try to resist ordering everything in one go. Instead, I'll try and just order when I get time/can afford to do bits. Otherwise it'll either just sit in boxes and not get done, or I'll get fed up of looking at it and send it into the garage to get it done and have the enjoyment* of fitting it myself.

 

Hopefully it won't get too cold, too quickly and so give me a chance to do suspension work next month. Suspension needs minimum 1 shock replaced and all bushes. Springs ideally too. I'll probably go polybush for bushes, partly because durability and partly because they're split in two pieces and so look easier to fit.

 

Midland sports classic bushes are £65 for a full set, while Moss are £200. No idea the price difference. Surely there can't be too much difference in quality?

[SiC]

Another weekend, another visit to Moss again. Mrs SiC is starting to comment how often I'm visiting there now and how much I'm spending. I didn't tell her that this time I spent enough to get the 10% discount they're doing at the moment. Admittedly £50 of that is a refundable deposit for the damper.

 

I'm hoping the damper is buggered internally, not that the back gasket has leaked or something. Otherwise I've just chucked £30 down the drain...

 

Speaking of down the drain, yesterday I had another poke of the fuel pump. Looks like the leak I had was one of the fibre washers that sat inside the banjo lip. I assume the problem was, I put the washer on the bolt and did it up. What I probably was supposed to do is put it inside the banjo lip.

 

 

As the washers have got fuel on them, they've gone hard and crushed. So I can't fit them in. I've bought new ones today, so I'll change them out, but I didn't have any last night. Instead I found an o-ring that fitted in fine.

 

Tightened up, it doesn't seem to leak anymore. I was worried it was that new pipe that had failed as the banjo. Result!

 

Out of interest, why is there fibre washers and not o-rings? Also this does seem to be holding pressure fine, is it safe or is it likely to leak like this?

 

I'm not going to leave it like it as I have new washers now but wondered if it's good enough to at least for me to move the car so I can take off the dampers. I think I've drained more fuel out sorting this pump, than I have used in the last few months...