After three years... 216SLi - 25/2 - behaving itself

[Mally]

Less pressure in system, water boils at lower temp.

High pressure cap, think its 14 lb on this car,  raises the boiling point.

Ghosty definately has pressure in the system, so to me the cap is not at fault.

[Dave_Q]

Aha, a graph.

 

 

Those pressures will be absolute, ie 1 bar is atmospheric, bp of water at atmospheric is 100degC.

 

If the cap is rated to 14psi/1 bar gauge that's 2 bar absolute, so the bp of water goes up to approx 125 deg.

 

Quite important in an engine where temps could easily be at or around 100degC.

 

Edited to add: obvs coolant is a mix of water an other shiz so the boiling point isn't exactly the same as this graph, but you get the idea.

[Ghosty]

Oh, it's pressurising alright.

[BorniteIdentity]

Aha, a graph.

 

 

Those pressures will be absolute, ie 1 bar is atmospheric, bp of water at atmospheric is 100degC.

 

If the cap is rated to 14psi/1 bar gauge that's 2 bar absolute, so the bp of water goes up to approx 125 deg.

 

Quite important in an engine where temps could easily be at or around 100degC.

 

Edited to add: obvs coolant is a mix of water an other shiz so the boiling point isn't exactly the same as this graph, but you get the idea.

Jokes aside, this is actually really helpful. Thanks man.

[Parky]

What about that Evans waterless coolant? No water = no steam = no pressurisation. Or something.

 

Anyone tried it?

[Guest Hooli]

Very expensive & not as efficient as water from what I understand.

 

Can't see the point of it myself.

[richardmorris]

Very expensive & not as efficient as water from what I understand.

 

Can't see the point of it myself.

The only person I know who used it basically killled his cx prestige turbo. They're right. It won't boil, but by god it gets hot.

[Ghosty]

Seeing as I have to work some amount out of today, tomorrow and Sunday due to it being my first week of work (I'll usually have Saturday off), Old Man is going to do some of the water pump work - I think he wants the 216 out of the garage as soon as possible. I'll be helping out when hours permit.

On a side note, Dollywobbler - I remember you saying your 416 was uninspiring to drive: I think that's a character of the manual box on D series to an extent (never tried a K). I've experienced three D series cars now, two automatics and a manual, and both me and Old Man like the automatics a whole lot more than the manual, that was so dull we got rid of it unusually quickly for ghost_family. The autos seem to be more lively and are actually fun to drive, whereas the manual seems lethargic by comparison. Old Man says the 216 is 'quite nippy' but then again he's used to 89bhp 1.4 litre Ds.

[Ghosty]

The head gasket set came today.

 

I'm glad it did.

[oldcars]

How many places on the engine can you attach something resulting in copious silicone in the water system?

Thermostat housing, water pump, the odd drain plug...water rail? I'm struggling now.. Cylinder head gasket, that's unlikely though, although I have used it on a Reliant!

There's strings of it, not just the odd blob.

Honda experts help needed please.

Ahh, so your the last owner of my Rialto 

[Mally]

The head gasket set came today.

 

I'm glad it did.

That looks a bit like Mayo.

[Eddie Honda]

That looks a bit like Mayo.

Does it?

 

[Mally]

Ahh, so your the last owner of my Rialto 

 

Thread hijack sorry, used to race these.

 

http://www.rebelsracing.com/

 

Edit, just realised, if you click on 'about' one of our cars is there 788. Must be 10 years old that photo.

 

Decked the block new liners, liners were .008" high. Water leaked out of head gasket. Rang Hans Kirma, who knows more than most.

"Use Silcoset 152 round the water holes on the head gasket".... Result!

[dollywobbler]

HAS RELIABUL HONDA ENJIN. Admire your spirit though Ghosty. Getting there! That is indeed quite a mayo fest, and it's not like the engine has been struggling to get warm (another cause of mayo). 

[oldcars]

What's the cars use been before you got it? The mayo could be short journeys. Not that it matters, head is off and your sorting it anyway. Good effort with this.

[Bag'O'Spanners]

Good luck with it. Those engines do 'sweat' a lot with alloys heads, but that does look like a lot! Did you whack a block tester on it to confirm? or just think Feck it?

[Tickman]

What's the cars use been before you got it? The mayo could be short journeys. 

This, just like on my old Volvo V70 the dipstick would get loads of Mayo on because it was at the front of the engine.

[Ghosty]

The car's use: not a lot. The one piece of history I have with it is the service book...

M27HAB started life at Lex Rover Stourbridge as a Motability car for a bloke in Halesowen. It did 6000 miles a year for the first two years, and 8000 a year for a further two (second owner I suspect as it has post-1995 Lex dealer plates on it). The mileage then drops down in use steadily as time goes on, until we reach 50189... in July 2008. Oh dear - we're on 55k at the moment.

 

After this we have to resort to the MOT history website... and it goes up to 2008!

It did 1300 miles in 2008, 800 in 2009 and 1400 in 2010. Then things get a bit weird as if you look at the mileage for 2012, it's gone down by 900... hmm. Typo? Who knows. I can't see someone clocking an R8 for the sake of 1000 miles, unless Ferris Beuller took it for an MOT in reverse or something.

No MOT for 2013, but one for 2014, and in those two years the car turns out to have done a mighty 13 miles. And 13 more for 2015, before being pressed back into service and covering a bit under 3000 miles in 2015-16. The car apparently hadn't moved since last April so those 3000 were done in about six months based on the MOT date.

Considering the recent (lack of) use, taking the head off to find HGF wouldn't surprise me.

I might find out later.

[spike60]

Dunno about Rovers but quite a few petrol engines get a lot of condensation inside in cold weather. I have a 2.8 Z3 that does it every winter and swallows it again in the spring. V6 petrol Mercs do it very well too, it doesn't seem to hurt them.

[oldcars]

From memory the compression was checked and was fine was it? If so the mayo points short runs with engine not getting up to temp. 

[bub2006]

If compression was OK I'd have thought hg was OK. I've seen a lot of mayo build up under cam covers before in short use though. Saying that there is a lot. At least it will be all good to go and fighting fit. Water pump, headgasket, belts and a thorough flush of all the pipes and block for silicone?

[Ghosty]

We're just going to do everything I think, seeing as the head's off. Filters, oil, coolant, belts etc. Old Man seems to want to use the existing cambelt, but that idea can fuck off seeing as I've no idea when it's from. If it's having a new everything else, it can have a cambelt too. 

[panhard65]

I suspect with the history the previous owner knows something. It would be better if they were honest and told you why the silicon had been used. You are doing the right thing taking the head off but I would get it checked carefully for cracks as there is a story behind this fault. Good luck with it and hopefully you will find some answers when the head comes off.

[Snipes]

The reason it would boil with a dodgy cap is if the cap wasn't sealing. A degree of pressure is needed, I think I'm right in saying that the pressure increases the boiling point of the coolant.

 

So trying it with no cap won't help. I don't think they're dear so I'd deffo splurge on a new one to rule it out.

 

Yes. There are videos, taken in pressure chambers or even the space station, where they boil water simply by reducing the local pressure and with no heat applied. That's also why the vacum of space is so deadly; you're blood literally boils away. #morbid

[Rusty_Rocket]

A compression test is unlikely to show up a leak between the cylinder and a waterway.  It will be a minute breach if anything, because the engine runs well, or of course, a hairline crack in the head.

 

I'd do the whole lot in one go, head gasket, water pump, belt and anything else.  That way you'll have a very decent example that will run for years with only usual servicing- particularly with its low miles.

 

Good luck Ghosty!  If I were closer, I'd help but looks like you're in good hands

[Dave_Q]

I suspect with the history the previous owner knows something. It would be better if they were honest and told you why the silicon had been used. You are doing the right thing taking the head off but I would get it checked carefully for cracks as there is a story behind this fault. Good luck with it and hopefully you will find some answers when the head comes off.

This, if you are doing the head get it tested, with the fact it has good compression could mean it's cracked internally somewhere allowing oil and water to mix.

[Ghosty]

So, he wasn't lying about the water pump, it's new, as is the cambelt. Certainly reusable, they have 3000 miles on them at the absolute worst.

As expected, whoever did it had used crappy white silicone sealant as a gasket for it, bits were cacking up the bolt threads on the pump too. The pump needed levering off the block with a screwdriver...

Time to look at the gasket, and follwing that, the head.

[Parky]

god that annoys me. Standard gaskets should be fine although a bit of hermatite red is forgiveable as "insurance"

 

All that time, effort and money replacing the water pump and then using silicone sealant, just why?

[Rusty_Rocket]

New water pump (fitted by someone that shouldn't be working on cars)... he knew it had a problem and sold it to you knowing that it would expire in a cloud of smoke 

 

Expect a healthy dose of rad weld (the giffer's choice) in there too 

[Ghosty]