Roffle NOW WITH ADDED ROFFLING!!! An Englishman's home may be he castle, but his driveway can't be used as a (alleged) forecourt.

[Tickman]

13 and 24 please.

[pompei]

Yeah, Breadvan72 is a lawyer from memory.

 

If you do write back to the council conceding you might look at fleet reduction etc, put the words "Without Prejudice" at the top of the sheet  -  that way they cannot require you to carry out anything that you said you might do. Also means the letter would be inadmissible in court  (hopefully not going down that route).

[Jim Bell]

And cross your fingers when you sign it.

[For Fiats Sake]

Uno tickets 8 each or 15 for multiplas of two.

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Good luck

 

Any preference mr moog?

[For Fiats Sake]

Dreaded letter:

 

"Thank you for your e-mail, the contents of which are noted.

 

I understand that your personal circumstances are difficult and have no wish to impose additional stress, I also appreciate that you are trying to address the issues, however it can not remain unresolved indefinitely. If you have anyone else who can act on your behalf I would be happy to deal with that person.

 

The complaint (s) related to the amount of vehicles you have parked at the property, making the site look like a scrap yard,  and the adverse impacts this has on the residential amenity. 

 

In the terms of planning legislation, as previously explained, parking cars on a domestic drive would not normally require express planning permission. It would be considered a use incidential to the enjoyment of the dwelling house., provided the number of vehicles are considered to be reasonable for personal domestic enjoyment. It is the amount of vehicles you are keeping at the property that is causing the issue and has resulted in a breach of planning control. Having between 10 and 12 vehicles kept on the land is clearly far in excess of  what would be reasonable for personal domestic enjoyment. The Council is trying to achieve a situation whereby you have no more  than 4 vehicles parked at the site. It  appears that you are unable to do this within a reasonable time scale.

 

What I need from you is a commitment to reduce the number of vehicles to no more than 4 no later than 31^st March 2016. You have to be aware that if you fail to comply with this request then it is likely that an enforcement notice would be served. If this course of action becomes necessary I will fully explain the process and procedure at that time, but I hope that course of action can be avoided.

 

I trust that the above clarifies the position for you and look forward to hearing from you again."

[Tickman]

Wow, that letter is a bit strong.

Actual legal advice?

[scaryoldcortina]

What a crock. I have 4 cars parked in the street outside and no driveway and no-one is writing me any letters about it.

 

Also, wasn't 31st march 2016 about eight months ago?

[Coprolalia]

Legal advice.

Do not commit in any way.

 

If it came to it I hope an Autoshite crowdfunding legal campaign would work.

The precedent that the council can dictate the number of cars you're allowed to own, or the extent to which you may enjoy a hobby on your own land, is definitely one I'd like to see NOT become law.

[scaryoldcortina]

Agreed. I'd rather see that case in the supreme court than the current "Now that's what I call Brexit volume 23456765432"

[scaryoldcortina]

Another point about the hardball attitude of the council and why you shouldn't let it get to you...

 

I don't know if anyone else remembers it, but there was a kid on Retro-rides a fair few years ago who got into similar bother. He had a load of stored project/donor cars on some farmland and the council got interested and gave him a very harsh deadline to remove which he agreed to. There was a thread where he was trying to find homes for cars and was also offering parts from the ones that had to go. He was working pretty much 24/7 trying to comply when one of the cars fell on him and squashed him to death.

[eddyramrod]

This whole affair sucks.  I really wish I could make some sort of helpful suggestion, but at least please know that you have moral support.

[Supernaut]

If it came to it I hope an Autoshite crowdfunding legal campaign would work.

I'll put a tenner towards that.

[captain_70s]

I'll put a tenner towards that.

Same.

 

Could you build a panel fence around your home and then paint on it in big letters:

 

"DEAR NEIGHBOUR WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT MY CARS,

PLEASE INSERT YOUR HEAD UP YOUR OWN ANUS UNTIL DEATH IS ACHIEVED.

 

REGARDS,

FFS"

 

This whole thing makes me unreasonably angry. 

[Dave_Q]

No, the letter doesn't really clarify anything as it seems to conflate 2 different potential grounds for a planning notice.

 

The first, which seems to be the basis of the original complaint, is that the cars are an eyesore/detracting from the area in some way. 

 

Your pictures show that they all appear to have glass, wheels etc, and are generally in a good state of repair.

 

The second, that the number of cars isn't incidental to the enjoyment of the house - I believe that this is 100% shite, in other cases where this has been quoted it has been in reference to a change of use of the land eg the man with 17 cars in his garden.

 

I do not believe for a second that either of these grounds will stand up in court, but I am not a lawyer, please consider going to see a specialist planning lawyer, I will be one of the many who will donate to their bill.

[For Fiats Sake]

Same.

 

Could you build a panel fence around your home and then paint on it in big letters:

 

"DEAR NEIGHBOUR WHO COMPLAINED ABOUT MY CARS,

PLEASE INSERT YOUR HEAD UP YOUR OWN ANUS UNTIL DEATH IS ACHIEVED.

 

REGARDS,

FFS"

 

This whole thing makes me unreasonably angry. 

 

That really made me laugh!

 

Thank you for all your support, I'll consult our tame lawyer in due course, I'm not planning to reply for a week or two as I couldn't construct a sentence with the addition of very bad language at the mo.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

As said higher up, I'd be seriously looking at legal advice on this one. 'Looks like a scrapyard' sounds like the direct quote from your local Meldrew character. I can't see that being a legally enforceable term, especially if you can produce photos of tidy looking cars parked outside of a tidy looking house.

 

I guess, ultimately, if the whole thing is driving you to distraction, carry on and sell some cars. Personally though, I'd be on the blower to book an appointment with a solicitor tout suite.

[oldcars]

If the letter states 2016 then i would chuck it in the bin. If these idiots cannot even get the year correct i would not waste any effort on it.

[Tickman]

Could you park all the road legal cars on the road and then have less than 4 on the property.

 

You then legally comply with their request (not demand) and as a bonus piss of the knob head that started this whole sorry affair!

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Could you park all the road legal cars on the road and then have less than 4 on the property.

 

You then legally comply with their request (not demand) and as a bonus piss of the knob head that started this whole sorry affair!

Actually this is a very good suggestion, surely as long they aren't causing an obstruction what can they do?

 

But really what you need to do is LAWYER UP

 

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

[dave21478]

Dont ignore it, dont bin it (fucking really? people are advising that?Jesus fucking christ, people - get a grip.) Dont delay. This isnt going to just go away by itself.

Get a solicitor. On Monday. You have a short deadline and this sort of thing doesnt move forwards quickly. The more time you spend thinking about it, the less time you have to act. It is going to cost you money. This is going to be one of those cases where you lose your cars or you pay up to try to keep them. No, thats not fair, but thats life, unfortunately.

 

Since the council are not giving up, its fair to assume that whomever complains is pushing them hard to continue as far as they can. Its not un unrealistic assumption that this could also be a case of them being friends/drinking pals/funny handshake club members with someone in the council.

 

Dont park them all in the street either. There is being "right" and there is being provocative and pedantic and given whats gone on so far its safe to assume this will piss off the complainer a lot and likely get them complaining even more, whether its about the cars or something else. Dont get involved in tit-for-tat bullshit...it solves nothing and they will probably be willing to go further than you will.

[DodgeRover]

Put me down for a tenner for legal advise. Please do not give me any raffle tickets..message me how to pay

[For Fiats Sake]

I hadn't noticed the the mistake with the date on the letter/email.  I suppose I can take my time to respond to that as it makes the request ridiculous.  

I'll see if my which magazine subscription has any legal cover with it, ditto my house insurance and of course car insurances.  I can't afford to pay for any consults at the moment as I'm over extended financially until February.

The council are on a hiding to nothing pursuing me in this manner as I have already informed them that my mental status is poor at the moment due to depression and they aren't helping matters.  I'm going to book an appointment with my GP and see if he will write to them on my behalf.  

 

I have someone from FB going to see the Parade on Tuesday at my mechanics place, that would take the pressure off (especially as I could take another over to him!) if it sells.

 

Otherwise I'll continue on with the Roffle for the Uno, if I can't shift it by next weekend here I'll have to advertise it elsewhere (or enact a trusted shiter scheme), it really has to go.

 

Soooo who wants a ticket?  Â£8 a piece or £15 for two!

[scaryoldcortina]

It will probably only cost around £100 to get a local solicitor to write them a stern letter - that's only 10 people chucking in a tenner.

 

I'll chip in, that makes £30 already with the two offers above.

[dave21478]

I hadn't noticed the the mistake with the date on the letter/email.  I suppose I can take my time to respond to that as it makes the request ridiculous.....

 

 

Please dont.

The last minute reprieve because someone found a typo in the documents thing is a Hollywood meme.

[eddyramrod]

Get your Paypal details circulated, I'll chuck in for the first-consultation, you need it.  I hadn't picked up on the depression/doctor part before, that could be something of a lifeline especially if he's been treating you for some time and can produce records.  Is he someone you feel you can talk to, someone who will be on-side?

[plasticvandan]

If the cars don't go even if council lay off whoever has instigated this clearly has a large bee in their bonnet so could only be a matter of time before they get bricked or torched.

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and say you don't need 10 rusty Fiats,surely you must struggle to allocate funds/time to them all,having all that responsibility would make me stressed even before the council got on my back.

Don't like to see authorities or pricks win but equally is it really worth the grief so you can keep a few £400 cars?

[M'coli]

So...4 cars is an acceptable amount? Bollox. That only covers Mum's, Dad's, and the two stay-at-home grown-up kids,who all need their cars to get to work because the public transport system in West Yorks is so disintegrated, so the council can get real.

[rantingYoof]

As said, the council 'deciding' that four is 'reasonable' is shaky ground that they would have to back up with a seriously good report if an appeal was lodged to the inspectorate.

 

The threat of an enforcement notice by April 2017 is an indication that things are serious, and that it's time to see if you can get some proper advice. A local small/independent consultant may be happy to do some case law digging for you; you may start with citizen's advice bureau.

 

An enforcement notice will show up on future searches when the property is being sold. Even when it's complied with. So I'd really prioritise seeking proper advice now.

 

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[sierraman]

that might just work, a taxi driver near here was sacked and now has a criminal record because he referred to a fare dodging customer as a "state your nation" cunt. Had he avoided stating the thieving bastards nationality he would have a job and no record.

This is the problem. The do gooders have made it that nobody can be upset. He should have done the honourable thing and denied he'd said it. It'd be his word against the other.

 

It's the common culture now you can't say no. If someone is hopeless at something, instead of taking them to one side and saying 'look you cannot do this for... reasons' you can't be seen to be negative. Hence you waste endless time trying to 'develop' people who, in reality you ought to be spending time finding a reason to sack.

[bangernomics]

Had plenty of fun with planners myself over the years (mostly for advertising hoardings) and the one thing that strikes me about the last letter is that at no point do they tell you what planning section you are contravening.

 

That's very unusual and smacks of nonsense. Now the best advice is usually paid for, but if you have a decent buildings and contents insurance policy then you're most likely to have insurance for building disputes. You need to clarify what you have now.

 

You also need to respond quickly and decisively clarifying that you don't have someone to deal with this if you don't and aren't able to. Wriggle room is not your friend you need to act.

 

Also worth pinging a good few FOI requests into the council asking some pertinent questions about historical planning related complaints as they're dealt with by the same idiots and it'll give them an indication that you are not a pushover and it'll wind them up that you're questioning them. It's known as discovery, or asking what they've got before you chance your hand. That's what they're doing to you presently or there would be a contravention notice in your hand.

 

So in summary

 

Check cover

 

Ask who can help

 

Act quickly

 

Ask the right questions

 

And also ask yourself if you need the vehicles in question. £400 isn't a lot of a lawyers time (about 7 hours for a cheap one and about 4 for an average one).

 

From the stress levels you mention, I'd be asking myself if I really need it and the cars. There's right and wrong, justice and injustice and there's feeling stressed and trapped too and that won't go away. There's always more shitters to be had around the corner.