Project Domes shonky autos - Grand Cherokee departs, Kangoo titivation and 911 dug out.

[dome]

11 hours ago, SiC said:

Borrowing cam tools definitely would be appreciated though if I need them! Are they genuine Renault?

No but they've been fine on the 2 belts that I've done. 

The hardest part(apart from access) is setting the tension on the belt. 

You can get the crank pulley off without disturbing the timing, worthwhile for peacebof mind if nothing else. Also pull off the top timing cover/engine mount and get a look at the state I'd the belt. I've got a full new(ish) timing belt and tensioner setup here along with dephaser. I doubt there's much market for it second hand but it's only done a few hundred miles.

[SiC]

No but they've been fine on the 2 belts that I've done. 
The hardest part(apart from access) is setting the tension on the belt. 
You can get the crank pulley off without disturbing the timing, worthwhile for peacebof mind if nothing else. Also pull off the top timing cover/engine mount and get a look at the state I'd the belt. I've got a full new(ish) timing belt and tensioner setup here along with dephaser. I doubt there's much market for it second hand but it's only done a few hundred miles.

It is very tempting just so I can see the uproar on the Clio forums for not only using an aftermarket timing tool but also second hand belts! Usually it causes enough disagreement when someone wants to DIY'ing the change!

Only issue with using second hand parts is the lack of receipt. A full genuine kit from a Renault dealer without aux belt and tensioner is £265. With that magic receipt and documented evidence of it being changed, I should easily be able to get that back if I ever sell on.

Also useful to know you've had no problems with the aftermarket tools. I don't understand on the insistence on using genuine Renault tools. They aren't anything fancy! Just a great big slab of laser cut metal in the shape of a horseshoe for cam lock, a small machined pin for crank lock and a couple of pulleys mounted on a plate for pulley lock.

I also don't understand why the fear of using other garages. These F4R and F4P engined are used for years now on the Renault range. I know the Mégane, Laguna, etc all use a keyed crank pulley but I think the rest is the same right from the 120bhp to the 255bhp tunes?

[dome]

Knackered after a long day today on the XJ40 that's not moved for 19 years.

Full update to follow but in summary

Brakes freed off

New plugs in with some oil down the bores

Cleaned dizzy cap and rotors.

Turned over on the starter and built oil pressure ok.

Fuel pump dead though

Tank needs to come out to change the pump

Unions on the bottom of the tank need to come out to remove the tank

Unions stuck in place and hard to access, right above the diff.

Tank still in place for now.

Have some pics

 

 

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Frustrating, but the old girl looks well worth the graft. The fact it was only on her majesty's highway for nine years is good news with about the structure as well I hope. 

I can't remember why the owner laid it up - was it fuel pump on the way out at the time? 

[stripped fred]

It does look very smart...

[dome]

So, yesterday I set off at the crack of 10am to try and bring the XJ40 back to life.

The previous owner was there and helping/chatting as i worked so i got a bit more of the history of the car

It had been owned by him since 1996 and originally came off the road around 2001 with a leak around from what I think is the transmission cooler. A replacement cooler comes with the car but was never fitted.

He'd bought the burgundy car a few years later and the XJ40 had been left in the garage and forgotten about.

Ambitions were high but expectations were low. I'd love to get it fired up and drive it the half mile to my house (insured, obviously) but on the other hand I had no idea of the condition it was in underneath

First things first, lets get some air in the tyres.

Yes, it'd been a while...

That's looking a bit better.

Have some interior pics too. The headlining hasn't sagged like I believe can happen on these.

 

Next, plugs out and some GT85 in the bores. I wanted to turn it over on the crank pulley but it's something silly like a 33mm nut which I don't have so i left the oil to soak while I carried on with other things.

New plugs were fitted and the distributor cap and rotor arm were cleaned up.

Then, onto the brakes and fuel filter which is in front of the LHS rear wheel. 

The rear calipers didn't respond too well but the fronts freed up. Annoyingly the fuel filter I'd bought was incorrect. This 1991 car is, typically, just around time of upgrades.  

With brakes free it was time to put a battery onto it. i'd bought a new one so put it on and connected it up to be greeted with a wailing alarm siren. I'd bought a new battery for the fob but couldn't suss out how to get the alarm to stop beeping. When i got home i found a supplement in the manual for this alarm so I'll see if i can get it to shut up.

Next plan was to crack off the fuel line in the bay and run the pump to drain out any remaining fuel. Handily the relays under the bonnet all had little caps on them telling me what they were so the fuel pump relay was soon found. 

I couldn't resist turning it over on the key to make sure it wasn't seized. Thankfully it wasn't and it even gave a cough as if it wanted to live, presumably the GT85 in the bores as the fuel lines weren't connected!

I knew which connections to bridge to get the pump to run so connected a wire across them and-nothing. Hmm. At this point a lot of time went into diagnosing the problem-did the senile alarm have an immobilizer function that disabled the fuel pump?

Eventually I got into the boot and checked the fuel pump connections. Ignition on gave power going to the pump.

I wired the pump up direct to a battery to test it but nothing. Dead. Zip. Nada. At the suggestion if @jaypee via whatsapp I tried reversing the polarity of the connections in case that would free it off-still nothing. Bugger.

Early XJ40s had an external pump but on mine it is in the tank. Helpfully* it's located in the top of the tank and the tank needs to be removed to get the pump out. The blue and red wire here heading up the middle of the tank lead to the pump.

Working in the boot soon had the tank ready to come out, leaving only the unions underneath the car to undo.

Yeah, about those.

These are located above the diff. There are little R Clips that hold them in, then it's a case of pulling out the pipes and removing the tank. 

The Haynes manual helpfully says "remove the driveline"  

Yeah, drop the entire rear subframe and you give it a mere 3 words?!? Fucking hell. I hate Haynes manuals.

At this point some pics would help wouldn't they?

Yep, that's as good as you're getting. They're fucking buried.

I managed to get the R clips out and of course one pinged off never to be seen again.

The unions, however, would not come out. Solid. More solid than that. Access was terrible so no way to get grips or anything onto them. Far too long was spent swearing at them with no joy. 

Fuck.

At this point I decided to leave it for the day.

Options are.

1. Continue underneath trying to get the unions undone. I left them soaked in Plusgas but the lack of access to get anything on to pry them with and how seized they are makes this near impossible

2. Some people seem to reckon the tank can be hauled out far enough to get access to the pump while leaving the unions attached. I tried this and while i could get some movement it didn't want to come out. I think i'll try this first. If others have managed i'm sure i can. 

3. Others have cut a hole in the parcel shelf to get the pump out-I'm calling this the last resort, before the last last resort of dropping the subframe ?

Overall though I'm happy. It seems solid and in good condition and turned over happily. The seating position seems better than the X300, the non airbag wheel gives more space. 

With a bit of time (and money) it should be able to live again. If only I can get the pump changed!

 

[big_al_granvia]

i would be tempted to put the thing on a flatbed and get it to a tame mechanic with a ramp, it least having it 6' in the air meas better access oppose to lying on your back under it. you will probably want to replace the fuel pipes so cut the bloody things off and put new unions on. dropping the subframe will be a cuntasawrus of a job... give my mate ali mcmillan a shout for advice, he is a jag specialist and cracking engineer as is his sidekick scott tollan. those guys have done more jags than i have had kebabs

[Saabnut]

Be aware - if it is the same as my X308 (and it looks and sounds the same) there is not enough free length on the pipes to remove the tank. It MAY be possible to get enough movement on the tank to get the pump out BUT the fuel pipes tend to snap as they go brittle with age. A new set will not see much change out of a grand, and secondhand are not an option 'cause they always snap on removal. I plan on the angle grinder through the parcel shelf if/when I get some enthusiasm for it.

[somewhatfoolish]

IIRC @Broadsword has done the 'cut a hole in the parcel shelf' thing to replace the in-tank pump, albeit on an X306.

[dome]

11 hours ago, Saabnut said:

Be aware - if it is the same as my X308 (and it looks and sounds the same) there is not enough free length on the pipes to remove the tank. It MAY be possible to get enough movement on the tank to get the pump out BUT the fuel pipes tend to snap as they go brittle with age. A new set will not see much change out of a grand, and secondhand are not an option 'cause they always snap on removal. I plan on the angle grinder through the parcel shelf if/when I get some enthusiasm for it.

From more reading I think getting the tank out with the lines attached isn't going to happen. I'm going to try cutting a slot in a socket to fit over the union to turn it and hopefully free it off. 

Angle grinder through the parcel shelf sounds brutal but it might be the only option!

Oh and in more mundane car news the Accords rear wheel was hot to the touch on getting home last night-sticky caliper there then!

 

[SiC]

Everytime I've read about this job on these and newer ones, someone has cut a hole above the top and made an access hatch. 

[cort16]

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

I think this picture is from an XK8 but you get the idea. Great bit of design.

 

 

[SiC]

Just now, cort16 said:

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

Reading up on how to change the starter motor or clutch on your Mégane 225 again? ?

[Snipes]

3 minutes ago, cort16 said:

The interior of the car looks lovely.  I have a similar  contempt for haynes manual. Step 1., remove engine. Difficulty level 2 spanners.

I think this picture is from an XK8 but you get the idea. Great bit of design.

 

 

Almost looks like that oval hole was there for fuel pump access..... 

[cort16]

7 minutes ago, SiC said:

Reading up on how to change the starter motor or clutch on your Mégane 225 again? ?

Cut a big hole in the bonnet ?

 

[cort16]

5 minutes ago, Sir Snipes said:

Almost looks like that oval hole was there for fuel pump access..... 

It’s the speaker I think . So close .

not sure I could trust myself to cut a hole that neat.

[Broadsword]

The XJ40 looks surprisingly solid, and the Jaguar Sport steering wheel is a bonus. Cutting an access hole above the fuel tank sounds brutal but you won’t hurt anything if careful. On these cars at this age I don’t think it is worth risking trying to get the tank out for fear of damaging the fuel lines (or tank). I made a YouTube video on how I changed the fuel pump on an X306 from above (try this at your own risk of course!)

 

[dome]

 

2 hours ago, Broadsword said:

The XJ40 looks surprisingly solid, and the Jaguar Sport steering wheel is a bonus. Cutting an access hole above the fuel tank sounds brutal but you won’t hurt anything if careful. On these cars at this age I don’t think it is worth risking trying to get the tank out for fear of damaging the fuel lines (or tank). I made a YouTube video on how I changed the fuel pump on an X306 from above (try this at your own risk of course!)

 

Dremel discs ordered! 

[Broadsword]

53 minutes ago, dome said:

 

Dremel discs ordered! 

Don’t forget to look also at the rubber fuel pipe in the tank going into the pump. For the sake of £5 of fuel hose from Halfords I would replace that too. On the car in the video it was not the pump that failed, but the rubber hose going into it had split. It fooled many people into thinking it has a misfire when there was in fact fuel starvation.

[Zelandeth]

Welcome to the joys of working on Jaguars.  They have a special talent for making never the simplest jobs an utter pig because someone put something in the way.

Definitely replace the in tank line while you're in there...just don't use fuel hose from Halfords unless you want to be doing it again in six months.  Marine grade fuel hose is your friend.

Knowing how expensive replacement lines are, is there any particular reason the lines couldn't just be remade using off the shelf fittings and appropriately rated metal or flexible pipe?  Or do they have some obnoxious proprietary fittings which make that difficult?

[dome]

And good old euro car parts came up trumps* with the pads for the Accord ?

Sliders were fine so I lubed up the piston and stuck it back together for the meantime til I can get the correct pads.

[dome]

Baws, turns out it was my fault. I ordered the pads while still in bed half asleep and didn't realize I'd picked the Jazzs reg number on the euro autofill instead of the Accord. Bollocks!

[dome]

Well this turned up today so I guess I'd better crack on getting the old one out..

Picking up some Dremel discs after work then let's see if I can get this pump out. Also picked up a new correct fuel filter for it.

Good job I bought a new battery for it...

And, slightly ahead of myself but thanks to @cort16 and his new venture I have a tax disc ready for it when it finally hits the road. Tax disc holder isn't quite period correct I don't think but it'll do for now

Does anyone have replacement fuel hose clips? @Broadsword perhaps? One of them pinged off never to be seen again. If not I'll find something to use to hold it in. Not that it's likely to fall out but it's not a risk I'm willing to take!

[Broadsword]

Sorry I don't have those clips, mainly because I know to avoid trying to touch them. You might try the Jag X300 Facebook group for advice on that matter. Another good source is Jaguar Classic Parts by Jaguar themselves. Very good for tracking down part numbers.

[dome]

So, tonight I went back round to the garage, Dremel in hand and with a fresh supply of cutting discs. I know fine well how quickly it gets through these when you try and cut metal with it.

I quickly got the back seats and parcel shelf out so it looked like this.

After a bit of umming and ahing I marked up with masking tape where I wanted to cut and set about it.

8,657 Dremel discs later(approximately) and here we are.

Wierd ghostly shit going in with that pic there.

Retaining ring off and hoses removed allowed me to get the top part of the pump off. The bottom part stayed put and seemed quite attached.

At this point I looked at the Haynes manual (I know, i know.)

I'll skip ahead to the removed pump for descriptive purposes

The rubber cross shaped part is supposed to stay attached to the tabs on the bottom of the tank and the pump unit is supposed to twist free. Except, of course it didn't. I had to remove the whole thing as one which involved turning it upside down in the tank and squeezing it out through a hole it was never designed to fit out. Joyous.

Once I had it out I realized the problem-a zip tie holding the rubber part firmly onto the pump. Thanks Jaguar!

You can imagine how much fun this all was, especially as there's still a gallon or so of 20 year old petrol in the tank!

Next up, open up the plastic casing of the pump units somehow without breaking 20 year old plastic tabs? Then I can fit the new pump and rubber hose.

The tank was remarkably clean inside, I'll drain it out and have a new fuel filter here for it. Running at the weekend? Stay tuned!

[cort16]

good work!

[straightSix]

This guy is definitely worth contacting if you need any spare parts: https://blackcherryjaguar.com/

There are a ridiculous amount of small changes they made over the years with parts so can be a bit difficult getting the right one

[dome]

Cheeky wee lunchbreak update.

Managed to prise the top off the fuel pump housing without breaking anything to reveal the dead pump.

Old Vs new pump

Nastiness inside the housing. I've got it soaking in petrol here, the black stuff is nasty and tough to remove

Will leave that to soak for a while and will then clean it up before it goes back together.

Also started on polishing up the grill which had been removed, will get that finished off soon.

Tomorrow the plan is to stick it back together and see if it'll start?

[SiC]

does Carb cleaner to remove the black gunk? Looks that type of stuff that is stuck in carbs. 

[dome]

13 minutes ago, SiC said:

does Carb cleaner to remove the black gunk? Looks that type of stuff that is stuck in carbs. 

I don't have such a thing, I'm too modern for that  I tried brake cleaner which didn't seem to do much though.

It does scrape off-it's more like goo for want of a better term. Will leave it soaking in petrol for a while and see how it goes.