Gooner II V6 - Reliable motoring at its finest*

[SiC]

Not a bad idea. I saw your other post about it in the Honda Jazz NCT fail. I probably should unbolt and remove it, before it fails and gets stuck in the on position...

 

Or get a second hand one working one, viriginise it and replace it. Afaik, its just a case of blanking the EEPROM in it and it'll automatically recode itself when connected.

[SiC]

I might have a crack at a fluid change on the blue Gooner, just cos I've never done it before. It lokos pretty straightforward - seemingly you do an 'oil change' like on an engine and fill its sump pan to the right level with fresh fluid. Then disconnect the return pipe off the oil cooler and run it at idle for a while, allowing it to pump the fluid through all the internal gubbins and out into a tub. You then replace what's come out with the same amount of fresh stuff. Something like that anyway.

 

Yours looks FLIPPIN SWEET, I say keep the fake wood too, its a great feature I reckon!!!! Specially with the funny little squares set into it.

Renault say:

 

3.3l on a oil change, 7.5l total capacity.

 

When changing or topping up oil, its essential to have the shifter in Park.

 

Drain plug is the one marked as 1 above. Torque tightness is 22Nm.

You can refill through the sender port marked 2, however you need to be 100% that it is the right one. On Volvos (that use the same box), if you get the wrong one and you could find the brake bands come detached and require the box disassembling to put it back together again. My mate who has done a flush on a V70 (with the same box) reckons its much safer to refill through the dipstick tube.

Put back in the same amount that came out.

 

Doing a change, going for a good drive and repeat a couple times more should get most of the old fluid out.

 

Fluid level on the dipstick must be done at 75C +/- 1C. Engine running at idle, shifter in Park. Really need a diag tool for setting the level really. Maybe a IR thermometer might do the job reasonably well too?

[johngarty]

That wood looks totally out of place. Black carbon fibre wrap for me. 

[Guest Hooli]

Wood? It's a carpet trim tack isn't it?

[SiC]

Took the Gooner in to work today. I reset the MPG computer before I started. 7 miles of not a lot of traffic later...

 

Not bad I don't think for a 3l auto.

 

In other news. I phoned up the last garage that last serviced it for the last 5 years. Unfortunately he deleted all the records from the last owner when he moved away. However being a Laguna v6, he remembers the car well apparently! Bad news is that Cambelt was never done.

 

The last garage - Tates of Newhaven was a Renault dealer. Looks like their Renault department has mostly been minimised to servicing only and their service line was going to voicemail. However even if they had done it, it would be due now.

 

So its either never been done in 10 years, or its due now.

[Parky]

The AW55 box apparently needs JWS3309 spec oil. Mobil do one that Opie Oils sell for £10.96 a litre which I don't think is too bad as most synthetic gear oils are around a tenner a litre anyway.

 

I did get that info from Wikipedia so no guarantees that's correct!

 

Millers have one (Millermatic spIII - ws) but the cheapest I have found in normal stores I s Carlube ATF U which Tesco knock out for £40 for 4.5 litres and that meets the JWS3309 specification apparently....

 

Volvo and Saab forums think Toyota T-IV ATF is the same stuff but it looks trickier to find.

 

Another option might be this stuff which I have never heard of. 20 litres for £40, maybe Bol and SIC should go halves and get ten litres each for £20 quid?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-5x4-Liter-MANNOL-Multivehicle-Automatik-Getriebeol-/361375579484?hash=item5423a9bd5c:g:m0AAAOSwyQtV4Ahe

[SiC]

I've had the 20l barrel of that in my watch list for quite a while. If it wasn't a Gooner I got, it'd been a 9-5 which also uses the AW55. Funny enough too I ordered that exact one, as I decided the 5x 4l bottles were more convenient than a great big 20l barrel.

 

Due to arrive by Tuesday (hopefully!). I was a bit dubious as I'd never heard of them before, however on the Volvo forums (V70 T5 and others use the same box) some have said they've used it with success. A mate has uesed the Carlube stuff on his T5 too and made a big improvement.

 

The company that manufacturers MANNOL is SCT lubrication in Lithuania. Their videos are pretty good.

 

Probably end up using most of the oil to get it properly flushed through.

[Parky]

I did read a Bimmer forum once which highlighted how you can never fully empty an autobox.

 

Drain/refill once = 50% new oil, 50% old

 

If you change the oil, run it for a bit in all gears, and then repeat you would need to do it four or five times to get more than 90% new oil in the box. Does it have a transmission filter as well?

[SiC]

Yeah. A significant proportion of the fluid is supposed to be in the torque converter, so its not possible to get it all out.

 

Two great videos on a autobox teardown and descriptions+explanations:

 

The AW55 doesn't have a user accessible filter, there is a mesh filter apparently buried in the box somewhere. It does have a magnetic sump plug though, which should collect most swarf.

[Honey Badger]

You could always fit a Magnafine filter in the return line for the ATF on its way back from the cooler, Ive fitted one on my Accord V6 auto and it does catch quite a lot of crud.

 

http://www.magnefinefilters.com

 

I've also been watching the Mannol Multivehicle ATF as it lists its Honda Z1 compatable, it's cheap enough to drop a sump full every oil change to keep the ATF nice and red.

[SiC]

In my continued quest of fixing minor problems, while not attending to more major issues on the car, I decided to have another crack at the SatNav. Reading online it appears that often its the sharkfin GPS antenna on the roof, however in some cases it can be the control unit connector. So before throwing parts at it and ordering a replacement antenna I wanted to rule out the control unit.

 

At the moment, the Satnav is using its inertial navigation system to make up for the fact that it has no idea where it is going. As its been power cycled at some point, it's defaulted itself back to somewhere in France. Presently I've apparently been driving around the dirt tracks of the village of Faux-Villecerf.

 

Also the on-board clock is set using the GPS time, however for some reason there is no way of manually setting this time?

 

What I needed to do was to see if the antenna connector was working at the back of the sat nav unit. However I couldn't find my radio keys anywhere, the usual trick of screwdriver in the hole didn't work and really didn't want to spend £5 in Halfords for a bit of bent wire...

 

Thus another solution needed to be found. So my plan was quite simple in action, but a bit more complex to explain technically.

 

TL;DR basically there is 5v coming out of the GPS connector.

 

A bit fuller explanation (or skip two paragraphs)

 

Basically a GPS antenna is what termed as an Active Antenna. Because the GPS signal is so weak, a normal antenna picking up the signal would quickly loose that signal through the loss on the RF cables. To combat this, the GPS antenna also contains a bit of electronics to amplify that signal. This makes it what is termed as a Active antenna vs a normal Passive Antenna.

 

For this to work, the Active Antenna needs electrical power to power the amplifier. One way of doing this would be to provide a power source to it through power leads. However this requires extra cabling. So what GPS antennas do is put a DC voltage across the RF cable, so the Active Antenna on the other end can source power off it. Through a bit of filtering, the DC power can be sourced off, while the higher frequency GPS signal is put on top of this. This can be done as DC power is 0Hz, while the GPS signal is all the way up at 1.57542GHz. Similar principle to how your home telephone can ring without power, yet only two lines are fed into the telephone.

 

First step was to locate a way of getting access to the GPS cable. On the Gooner, the GPS antenna cables come out of the roof antenna at the rear of the vehicle, above the rear passenger light.

These then snake down to a bunch of connectors behind the o/s boot trim.

The top connector is the GPS one, with the other two being the Radio and GSM antenna for an optional car kit.

 

Disconnecting these and probing the bottom half gave...

Great! 5v DC power source is exactly what I expected. So that means there is a connection from the front unit all the way to the rear boot cable.

 

Next step is to test the other connector to see if the GPS antenna is connected. Now as this is an active antenna, if connected, it will try and draw power. Thus a DMM on resistance reading should register something as the GPS module tries to draw power out of the DMM. As its doing this, the DMM should register a resistance reading. Rather crude way of doing it, but as these antennas are known to go bad, I'm pretty confident its that now.

OL - Over Limit. I.e. open circuit.

 

For reference, here is a known working GPS antenna (unfortunately the wrong polarity of connector to be any use).

 

 

So now I know its the Antenna at fault, I need to source a replacement. According to other forums, Renault want around £120 for a new one. This may be AutoShite but no way I'm spending 1/5th of the value of the car on a new GPS Antenna.

 

Googling around, it appears the connector is part of the Molex Fakra II range. Basically a standard SMB RF connector with a fancy keyed surround to stop users/technicians plugging the wrong antenna into the wrong input. Handily they come in different colours to distinguish the keying.

 

The Laguna uses Code D - Bordeaux Violet. Does make you wonder if the engineer who chose that, genuinely chose that connector because of the French place name in it... (As an engineer that would be genuinely something I'd do)

 

Looking on eBay, Fakra GPS antennas bring up ones mostly with the wrong keying. Except one which has Code Z - Water Blue. This appears to be a nearly universal keying to all connectors.

 

However this was £5 more than most. Too much for my liking. As the RF connector inside the housing is a standard SMB, I ended up going with an antenna with a bog standard SMB Female GPS Antenna. Not quite ideal, as there will only be the standard RF connector holding it in place - rather than the extra security of the housing too. However it should be sufficient and its going to be hidden away behind the trim anyway.

 

So fingers crossed this will fix the GPS location problem and also allow the clock to properly sync up!

[tooSavvy]

^^^ AbFab on the techhietalk M8

 

Wasted on the likes of me.....

 

 

TS

[SiC]

Badadadum! News just in.

 

A Independent Renault servicing garage came back for a Cambelt, Aux Belts, Waterpump job. They reckon ....

 

....

 

....

 

....

 

....

 

£1190 !! :shock:

 

Breakdown of that is £325 labour, the rest parts. They won't let me supply my own parts and them fit them either...

 

Not quite sure how they got that figure on parts - unless they're quoting for Renault genuine parts. From ECP, with the current 20% discount code I get:

 

 

I'm going to speak to the garage I usually use about it (who are doing the gearbag oil change anyway). When I went in Monday, they were pretty busy and stressed, so didn't want to push them over about asking them to do a cambelt on a French barge V6...

[SiC]

I got confused reading this until I realised the pictures were in the wrong order.

 

Ben

Oops.

Fixed.

[Parky]

I reckon they have priced it using ECP parts, realised its a pain in the arse to do and so have doubled their actual price to put you off.

 

Or maybe you should ask where they get their parts as their supplier is obviously ripping them off

[SiC]

I reckon they have priced it using ECP parts, realised its a pain in the arse to do and so have doubled their actual price to put you off.

Or maybe you should ask where they get their parts as their supplier is obviously ripping them off

Could be. When I first phoned up they did say to me that "they often quote for these types of jobs, but they never get a response". I'm wondering if they couldn't be bothered to do it.

 

Spoke to my local garage earlier. Said they don't really like these sort of jobs! Had a quick look on autodata and said he'll chat with his mate who used to work at a local Renault garage and he'll get back to me first thing tomorrow...

 

I think their biggest concern was of there are any special service tools that they may not have and if its a massive ballache of a job. Which I'm guessing it well could be.

[Honey Badger]

How can you tell that it catches crud? The pictures look like a sealed unit.

 

Thanks

Ben

 

I cut the last one on my car open, the filter was black and there were fine metal particles on the magnet.

 

Looked like the one in the youtube clip, except dirtier.

 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

325 for their labour doesnt sound obscene, 860 quid for parts on the other hand is ludicrous and if they have anything about them they must surely agree. I would be incluned to go back with a printout of your ECP quote and ask them to 'see if they can do owt'. None of that ECP stuff looks like cheap chinese toss either, I can't see why they would object to fiting it.

[angle]

The last garage - Tates of Newhaven was a Renault dealer. Looks like their Renault department has mostly been minimised to servicing only and their service line was going to voicemail. However even if they had done it, it would be due now.

 

So its either never been done in 10 years, or its due now.

 

Tates Renault has been dead a while now, last time I drove past it was a canoe shop. Which is a shame, because its where my family's first ever new car (an Espace TD) came from. They still have a Kia garage in Pyecombe, they might have access to records if you call them?

[SiC]

They told me that if I wanted to go for it, it would be the complete package only. Wouldn't accept parts only. Tempted to phone back and ask why their parts were so much more expensive, but CBA getting into an argument/debate on it. He did pretty much say if you can find another garage willing to do it and also you provide the parts then good luck.

 

I'm hoping my usual garage won't wuss out and be up for it! Problem is, as they're now getting a bit older, they're not so much up for the challenges anymore. However I personally rather they do it, not just because I rather they get the money but the whole price thing doesn't give me much faith on the other lot.

 

Surely changing the belt on these things isn't that bad?!

 

[SiC]

Tates Renault has been dead a while now, last time I drove past it was a canoe shop. Which is a shame, because its where my family's first ever new car (an Espace TD) came from. They still have a Kia garage in Pyecombe, they might have access to records if you call them?

Yeah I tried their normal number and went thru the options to speak to their service department. Twice it rang out and ended up to one of their voicemails.

 

The first owner got rid of it after 5 years. The belt is every 5 years, so makes me think the first owner shifted it on because big bill due. Second owner then didn't bother and took the risk. I'm now its the third owner not wanting to take the risk!

 

If it had been done 5years ago I'd be much happier about it. Renault say 5yrs/75k. PSA who use an identical engine say 10yrs/75k.

 

So if it's original then it is at least 6 months and 20k overdue...

 

I really didn't think this part would be the biggest challenge in Gooner v6 ownership!!

[406V6]

Nice detective work on the GPS. Let's hope all your research works out.

 

Regarding the cam belt I looked out the invoice for the last time I had mine done in 2010. It's the same engine so the parts cost ought to be comparable.

 

There was 6 hours of labour and about £300 of parts (2010 prices) plus VAT on top. There's a lot of engine to dismantle to get to the belt which racks up the time needed. I can't see how the parts price can get to £800 unless they've made an error.

[SiC]

With GSF code parts come to £275. I'm getting the impression they really didn't want to do it...

 

Where about in the UK are you? I'm just trying to find a garage willing to do it!!

 

Do you know if they used any special locking tools? I can't see anything extraordinary about it, apart from maybe a couple of tools to lock the cams.

[SiC]

http://www.406coupeclub.org/Files/HowToGuides/Cam%20Belt%20-%20Change%20on%20an%20ES9J4S%20V6%20engine.pdf

 

Just remembered this DIY guide for the 406 coupe (same engine). Doesn't look too bad at all. Infact kinda makes me want to DIY it.

[angle]

If PSA use the same engine, would a Citroen specialist work? I've only used them for older stuff, but I've only got good things to say about Bristol 2CVs in Redland.

[SiC]

Very good point!! Do they do modern PSA?

[angle]

Every time I go in they seem to be full of 206s and 307s so they can do fairly modern stuff, although they are pretty old school - they love an XUD. I trust them, and they're fairly priced.

[Dave_Q]

Surely the only way a car like this is viable shite is to DIY everything where possible.

 

I get that not everyone's time/money balance is tilted in the direction of time, but based on the prices quoted I wouldn't be paying anywhere to do it, not just on cost but they clearly don't want the job. Get stuck in and DIY it over a weekend or 2.

 

Provided you have another car for getting to work of course.

[Kiltox]

DIY

 

DO NOT buy cheap chocolate locking tools on eBay though

[SiC]

Every time I go in they seem to be full of 206s and 307s so they can do fairly modern stuff, although they are pretty old school - they love an XUD. I trust them, and they're fairly priced.

Cool. The ES9 (PSA) / L7X (Reno) is actually bit of an old engine now really. It replaced the PRV lump of old in the 90s, with PSA being the biggest user of it. The guys I usually use said they'll get back to me tomorrow, so if they say no, I'll give those guys a call.

 

Problem with DIY is that I'm mega slow on cars. So this would probably take me a couple of weekends to do. As I'm getting married at the end of next month, my (better) half has got a month full of wedding frollocks to be done. So no decent periods of fiddle time for a couple of months, and it would be handy to have an operational car for that period.

 

A problem I'm very happy to throw (reasonable amounts of) money at. Just needing to find a garage who I can throw it at that I can trust!