It's a newish car so nothing can be wrong with it.

[Jazoli]

See thing is for £700-£1000 you expect a few minor faults, dents etc. When I paid £1900 for a car a few years ago I just felt ripped off even though the car was/is good. I just felt as if one I could have paid £800 for wouldn't have been any worse. But then I'm tight.

 

I think there's a big gap these days between a £500 car and one for £7-800. 7/10 the £500 is a nail.

 

I think that any car is potentially a nail, whether its £500 or £900 or £2000, I have bought some great cars for under £300 and some heaps of shit for £800, price is only an indicator of what someone thinks its worth and what someone will pay, sometimes the cheaper car is the better one, I don't think there's any gap really, you just have to buy smart whatever the price.

[HH-R]

Aye, between 2 and 5k is a funny area. Someone's probably got rid because it's starting to cost, so pretty quickly you're shelling out for repairs. If you go for a lame brand then you can usually get a motor that doesn't look like it has been driven with carving knives and parked by feel, with a lowish mileage. Anything German or Japanese seems to attract a "German/Japanese engineering" mindset so the price is whacked up despite intergalactic mileage and cars that have visibly had hard lives at the hands of uncaring owners. No manner of quality engineering can stop someone from driving it like it's stolen or using it as a mobile bin.

 

My brother was looking for something to replace his Civic that has been a great car but starting to rust and leak now. The cars on the forecourts were shabby at best, with visible rust, missing exterior door handles, interiors that are scratched to bits... hardly any even valeted. Stuff you think "well that's in worse nick than the car I've got". The cars that have cost me the most have been in this bracket... the Fiats chasing rough running faults, the Kia I have now needing suspension bits, wheel bearings and brakes doing which are consumables but within 12 months I've spent the nearly the cost of the car on repairs, and it's 10 years old. That said, it should be all sorted* now and there's no rust on it, it should last another 5 years or so.

[Mr Lobster]

Flippin great thread, well done. Again

 

Anyway, I like cars. Old, new, shiny, shite, I'm not bothered - it's all good. There's some great new cars just as there's some horrible old ones. I just typed a really long post but then deleted it as I thought 'what's the point, it's like the flat earth society round here sometimes'

 

TL:DR - Most new cars aren't shit. Not that you care.

[DaveAspley]

Having worked in dealerships and latterly for myself in the motor trade and having owned 50+ cars in 16 years from 70's to 00's....

 

I now buy a 300-400 hatch to fill with tools for work, always change the belts and filters for approx £100, then run for 300-500 miles a week hopefully for 18 months then when it chucks a major wobbly scrap it. Get on eBay, nearest car for under £500 with a years test and the circle of strife repeats..

[dome]

I'm well in the Here be Dragons territory with my E46. It wasn't a bargain but it was about the right price for one and the spec is spot on (330d manual Msport touring, facelift so 204BHP and 45mpg average now it's been fettled and running V Power diesel) however it's a bit tatty inside and has the usual E46 front wing rot. The cost of new wings I wouldn't get back when I sold it so it'll stay that way until I find a pair of non rusty Imola red wings. Right between the honest politician and rocking horse shit down the scrappies. Or I could try and spray a pair myself....

 

Good job I actually like the car though and it does what I need.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The best thing about 1 series owners, is that 99% of them wouldn't know what was wrong in this photo. Yes I'm aware it's not a 1 series, but the same rule applies

[PrivatePike]

I think it will be interesting in the future to see expensive, newer cars now turn into cheap, mostly worn out "runarounds" like the 15+ year old cars you can buy today for £500. But the difference is they will still be just as expensive to run as they are now.

 

For example, 16 year old ford focus clutch costs about £100 roughly for a quality new clutch kit and concentric slave cylinder. Take a 2011 bmw 320d as an example, not exactly a top of range model. Clutch alone costs £350 upwards because its a self adjusting jobby. Then dmf replacement at about £500 upwards.

Makes me think in about 10 or so years cars like this aren't going to be worth owning?

 

Some newish mercs aswell are the same. I think some a or b classes require removal of the entire engine to access gearbox and replace clutch. Very labour intensive. And again you've got expensive dmfs to replace aswell.

 

Baffles me.

[puddlethumper]

After reading all the above I can't help feeling that my 28yr old Plug van was a good buy.  Bought it for 400eurii in Portugal, where I was living, and for the first 10yrs I reckon it cost max £300 a year for everything apart from fuel. Mind you insurance was only £110 a year, which allowed anyone with a full licence, and permission, to drive, Mot £12, road tax in 2009 was £20, and a mechanic cost £10 per hour.  Â£110 got you a green card for 12mths, all the rescue stuff etc., Had to use the rescue after a hose went the proverbial tits up on the way to the Rocket Festival in Spain. Luckily with only about 25 miles to go, managed to keep chucking loadsa water in to get there.  After 4 days of erm well you know, called rescue, who turned up in a shade under an hour, threw it on a flat beddy winchy thing and took me and my mate to the nearest town where we were put up in a otel for the night, with breakfast. Next morning a taxi arrived and took us about 600kms back home. Ok, my van didn't turn up for 3 days and arrived with a broken windscreen, which the truck driver paid me about £80 for so I wouldn't claim off his insurance. Down the scrappy for a £15 screen and a mechanic mate fitted it for a tenner. Quids in !      Since 2010 I reckon its costing about a grand a year, but thats starting ncb zero coz the insurance highwaymen didn't recognize my 20 yrs ncb in Portugal because over there a vehicle is insured, not the driver, like ear. Cost me £800 the first year. Barstewards ! Now down to £300. Had to get another engine coz a total spanner in Holland ( where I was working ) put a new cam belt but no bearings on, which lasted all of 10000mls before it went a bit bang. Silver lining, got a one lady owner, 65000 mile, full service history lump out of a rotten xantia for £150. Between oil changes, no oil added. Haapee Dayz.

[For Fiats Sake]

I have a sudden urge to swap the modern Fiat for an Alfa Mito - yeah also a Fiat under the skin, I noticed the interior light is identical today.

 

Anyway, looking at Autotrader I can have a 50k miler for about 4k.  Going into the showroom today I can have a brand new one for (deposit contribution from Alfa nearly 4k, trade in 7k) 4k on 0% for whatever a month.  Or sell Panda for 7k, buy second hand and pocket 3k. Ok I trade the Panda but it is losing value fast (as I knew it would) and I just haven't fallen for it the way I did the mk3 so I can't see me keeping it forever as I thought I would.

 

In hindsight if I'd bought a 4x4 modern (for 5k more!) I would be tempted to keep then start off-roading it, but off-roading in modern cars is a very boring experience compared to a 30 year old tin box!

 

I could ditch the modern altogether but after having kept a decent, presentable, well maintained and serviced modern car for the last five years I'd feel like I was taking a step backwards.  Besides I like my heated windscreen and seats - until they go wrong of course, but then will I keep the car after the warranty has run out?

 

My real problem with cars is I get bored so easily with them, I prefer the thrill of finding "teh one" to driving "just one" everyday. 

[saucedoctor]

Mito horror story: mate's daughter has one, and it suffered a seized rear caliper (TADT,S). 300 fucking quid, part only. Allegedly similar, but not similar enough to a Fiat part.

[SiC]

I think that there are too many people who don't look after cars. When I bought my Civic nearly 4 years ago now, I set a budget of 6-7k - which I find is the sweet spot for a decent family hatch that is 4-6 years old. Even so, it took me over 3 weeks of looking at many, many cars before I found one that wasn't shagged/loads of dents/knackard interior/buggered engine/etc. These were all single or second owner examples. The Civic was fresh stock in the garage I looked at and wasn't even prepped for sale which I saw as a benefit as I saw how exactly the last owner looked after it.

 

Now I would struggle to justify spending that much on a car again. Even though it has been very reliable, for the first 2 years I was always frightened for it to suddenly shit itself in a big way.

 

In my 12 year driving history, I've been pretty lucky and never had a >£500 bill (yet). Most was this Civic, for a Clutch job (£450 fully fitted with parts). However this may have made me over confident/not worried enough ... as I have just bought a Laguna 2. So this luck may (or not) change...

 

My strategy seems to be at the moment is finding ones that are already broken. People generally seem to be honest about all the faults when sold as spares+repairs, rather than trying to hide them. At least you know what you're getting then and also priced accordingly.

[rantingYoof]

If I'm buying in the there-be-dragons bracket, I'm looking for the following...

• Stamped service history, with a stamp within the last six months, preferably complete (not fussed about main dealer)
• A long MOT (more than six months)
• Nothing more than typical car parking dings/stone chips and I'll allow a slightly more significant paint imperfection if it's completely standalone and is obviously an exception rather than a rule

I also like paperwork. I like people who keep paperwork on everything, even a new tyre from six years ago. I like that sort of person. It's someone who wants a new owner to know the full history of a car and has no qualms about having it on display.

Paperwork is somewhat of a rarity nowadays. People may fastidiously keep paperwork/receipts/bills and then when they trade the car in decide to bin everything, or simply forget. More often than not, I genuinely think that the dealers simply ditch it all as it's a faff storing it/filing it.

 

I personally place a monetary value on paperwork. As in, you provide six year's worth of servicing/MOT/general invoices and I'll think twice about haggling.

The S60 was the first car I saw (out of many) to tick the three bullet-points above in quick succession, and then there was an added bonus that the dealer had noticed that at 99k the cambelt was overdue, so he had it done (and kept the receipt).

 

And then, after I'd bought it and was preparing to drive it home, he wandered over and said "Oh yes there are some papers with it too" and I was like :shock: as I'd given up ever seeing anything like that to the point where I didn't even bother asking if there was any. Sure enough I also have the three previous service invoices, totalling in excess of £1000.

 

With the cambelt sorted, the only two other components that I occasionally fret about are the clutch (it has a DMF although being a lower powered turbo with less torque than a diesel it shouldn't be as quick to wear) and the turbo, and Volvo turbos are incredibly good.

 

All of the above considered, I should have £500 stashed away for MOT/service time in June.

[Lacquer Peel]

Flippin great thread, well done. Again

 

Anyway, I like cars. Old, new, shiny, shite, I'm not bothered - it's all good. There's some great new cars just as there's some horrible old ones. I just typed a really long post but then deleted it as I thought 'what's the point, it's like the flat earth society round here sometimes'

 

TL:DR - Most new cars aren't shit. Not that you care.

 

 

TL;DR, ignore threads you don't like.

I don't like the new cars I've driven because the visibility is awful, the amazing* MPG figures quoted are unachievable, the ride is usually set up very firmly with little benefit to the handling, the interiors and exteriors are goppingly ugly, long-term there's a lot to go wrong with them. There are exceptions of course, and some of those things are nothing new.

[Bren]

My audi A6 was 11 years old and for its age, not cheap when I bought it.

 

Lack of previous owners, FSH and low mileage bumped the price up.

 

I had been looking for an S4, but for what I had to spend every one I saw had issues- none cheap to sort out.

 

It is true - cars of a certain age can make you bankrupt. Either new or very old is the best bet.

[Urko]

.. the ride is usually set up very firmly with little benefit to the handling...

 

Bleedin too true - some people seem to think you can't have both (ALDI are one of the worst offenders) - but they've obviously never driven a Lotus or a Jag, or even a Rally prep Scooby with long travel suspension.

[SiC]

Bleedin too true - some people seem to think you can't have both (ALDI are one of the worst offenders) - but they've obviously never driven a Lotus or a Jag, or even a Rally prep Scooby with long travel suspension.

You can't have long travel when you have 18" - 20" rims that seems to be common on even mundane German stuff nowadays. Just look at all the aldi 2.0tdi s-line. Of course they're perfectly fine on the ultrasmooth roads of the autobahn...

[Lacquer Peel]

You can't have long travel when you have 18" - 20" rims that seems to be common on even mundane German stuff nowadays. Just look at all the aldi 2.0tdi s-line. Of course they're perfectly fine on the ultrasmooth roads of the autobahn...

 

The weird thing is, German roads aren't that smooth and most Germans choose sensible wheels. It's British customers who choose these back-breaking suspension and alloy wheel combinations because they care about what other people think of their status over comfort. [/generalisation]

[dugong]

My Leon has the smallest alloys you can get, with the lowest tune diesel engine; it also has a conventional handbrake rather than the solenoid filled pit of misery

on VWs and Audis that everyone thinks are great 'because they let off automatically when you bring the clutch up'.

 

I'd rather save the 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds they save you in traffic and drive a car with a handbrake that stands an earthly of

passing its first MoT - but fuck it, you look damn cool so who the hell cares?

[Mr Lobster]

TL;DR, ignore threads you don't like.

I don't like the new cars I've driven because the visibility is awful, the amazing* MPG figures quoted are unachievable, the ride is usually set up very firmly with little benefit to the handling, the interiors and exteriors are goppingly ugly, long-term there's a lot to go wrong with them. There are exceptions of course, and some of those things are nothing new.

Yeh I know. I normally do stay out of the weekly ANCAS thread and probably shouldn't have bothered this week either.

 

I do agree that a lot of the current 'premium, aspirational' dross (BMW, Audi, higher end VW etc) stuff is going to cause some serious headaches for people when they get to 8 - 10 years old, but there's plenty of new cars that will be a decent proposition as long as they are looked after and properly maintained from new. Drove a Citroen Cactus a couple of months back with the standard (small) wheels and loved it - sensible suspension travel and you could go down country lanes without being shaken to bits.

 

Mrs L has a newish Sandero and its fantastic, a lot better than it has any right to be really and whilst its a pretty anti-fashion car it does what its supposed to do really well, is comfy, well screwed together and has sensible enough suspension to not feel like you're driving down a washboard every time you go out. The plan with it is to run it pretty much until it drops and that feels like forever at this rate.

 

My point is that not all new cars are shit. Just some. But that applies to old cars too.

[LessThanEqual]

The problem with buying newer cars is that you spend a lot more money on something that isn't particularly much better than an older car. For example, I had a 6N Polo not too long ago which I bought for £470. It was my first car and did a pretty good job of getting from A to B, but needed some repairs which I was not prepared to fork out on a cheap car. So I flogged it on and bought a mk4 Ibiza TDI for £1100, which is super cheap for one of these on a 55 plate with 116k on the clock. I was expecting twice the car for the money, but it just isn't. Yes it's quicker, much better on fuel even with a dodgy thermostat (57 mpg out of the last tank vs 36 in the Polo on a run), and has way more space for the driver, but it's rusty, sometimes throws and EML for no reason (hopefully just a fuel pump relay that needs replacing), needed 4 tyres, etc. And it's super bland being a silver modern, whereas the Polo got a few looks as I always kept it as clean as I could, even with its lacquer peel.

 

Either way, buying something second hand with your own money is better than driving around in a financemobile.

[Cheggers]

The problem with buying newer cars is that you spend a lot more money on something that isn't particularly much better than an older car. For example, I had a 6N Polo not too long ago which I bought for £470. It was my first car and did a pretty good job of getting from A to B, but needed some repairs which I was not prepared to fork out on a cheap car. So I flogged it on and bought a mk4 Ibiza TDI for £1100, which is super cheap for one of these on a 55 plate with 116k on the clock. I was expecting twice the car for the money, but it just isn't. Yes it's quicker, much better on fuel even with a dodgy thermostat (57 mpg out of the last tank vs 36 in the Polo on a run), and has way more space for the driver, but it's rusty, sometimes throws and EML for no reason (hopefully just a fuel pump relay that needs replacing), needed 4 tyres, etc. And it's super bland being a silver modern, whereas the Polo got a few looks as I always kept it as clean as I could, even with its lacquer peel.

 

Either way, buying something second hand with your own money is better than driving around in a financemobile.

 

 

I think expecting an £1100 car to be twice as good as a £470 one is unrealistic. Pretty much anything road legal below £1500 can be considered in the same envelope. Sadly "better" does not increase linearly with money spent, or £47k would buy you a hover car driven by Kelly Brook 😉

 

I'm inclined to agree that the £1500 - £3500 bracket is an awkward one....the cars are generally too new/ good to be cheap but not good enough to be expensive. £3500 is a lot of money, but not enough to guarantee you a reliable cost-effective motor.

[LessThanEqual]

I think expecting an £1100 car to be twice as good as a £470 one is unrealistic. Pretty much anything road legal below £1500 can be considered in the same envelope. Sadly "better" does not increase linearly with money spent, or £47k would buy you a hover car driven by Kelly Brook

No, of course not, but there is that part of the brain which says "I'm spending twice as much, so I should receive twice the quality".

[hauserplenty]

You pay your money and you take your chance / when you're dealing with / cars on finance...

 

-- Bruce Gockburn (Dead dinosaur juice)

 

 

 

...I'll get me coat.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-t5kjOTHXTs

[Alexg]

The problem with buying newer cars is that you spend a lot more money on something that isn't particularly much better than an older car. For example, I had a 6N Polo not too long ago which I bought for £470. It was my first car and did a pretty good job of getting from A to B, but needed some repairs which I was not prepared to fork out on a cheap car. So I flogged it on and bought a mk4 Ibiza TDI for £1100, which is super cheap for one of these on a 55 plate with 116k on the clock. I was expecting twice the car for the money, but it just isn't. Yes it's quicker, much better on fuel even with a dodgy thermostat (57 mpg out of the last tank vs 36 in the Polo on a run), and has way more space for the driver, but it's rusty, sometimes throws and EML for no reason (hopefully just a fuel pump relay that needs replacing), needed 4 tyres, etc. And it's super bland being a silver modern, whereas the Polo got a few looks as I always kept it as clean as I could, even with its lacquer peel.

 

Blimey, your expectations are a tad high. Expect a £1100 VAG product to get you from A to B in something screwed together more recently than an equally competent Â£470 VAG product, and nothing more. To put it in perspective, the difference in price is what new car customers spend on choosing a paint colour.

[Barry Cade]

Attended a FTP on the motorway this aft. 2010 Polo 1.6d. it's his 4th total FTP in 3 years-no 4 injector stopped injecting and left him at the side of the M90.  Last FTP relieved him of £1100 at VW, and he has no idea what it was or what his £1100 was used for. He did say he bought a VW for it's reliability, but is now considering maybe going elsewhere. What did I think of Audi,he asked.

 

These people get told the truth. Do we have Autoshite business cards?

[rainagain]

 

• Dealers in 6-10yr old cars in the £2-4k price-bracket don't care much about their products but are determined to take your money and are more likely to bullshit a car off the forecourt - "Service history? It's seven years old, you shouldn't expect that. I will not be servicing the car as it was last serviced 10k ago and the interval is 12k. It's in superb condition... [dents and rust are highlighted]...it's seven years old, it's going to have some wear and tear..."**

 

This is so true, this is the price bracket I had for my OH's car, I know dealers won't wash every car every day as they just get dirty, but at least they could clean the interior as it should stay clean. The amount of cars we looked at that had filthy interiors with rubbish lying around was terrible. Agree with the service history, we'd check an ad online which would state full service history, then look at car and see it only had a couple of stamps followed by one by the seller saying 'full service', which they would say means full service history. We called one dealer a bit out of the way in the morning for one car to make sure they hadn't sold it, when we got there the car was gone, "sorry I've lent it to a customer, how serious buyers are you?" the salesman said, "I don't know" I said "it's hard to say without seeing the car!". One that really sticks in my mind though was a Rav 4 we went to see, the back tyre was down to the rim flat and the interior was covered in mould yet it proudly said £3,995 on the windscreen. The rust and dents bit, I don't understand why they won't spend a penny on prep, even forking out £8 for a touchup pen and going round the car would make a massive difference. Even simple things like missing hubcaps can be sorted cheaply yet they don't bother. 

[sierraman]

You get that at all price ranges though. I once went to look (in a moment of abject madness) to look at a Vectra 2.2 DTi, it was filthy inside and out, the boot full of water, tyres illegal. The big clue with these places is the name '... Trade Cars/sales' or whatever. You'll get no end of disclaimers about mileage, test drives etc. Any place with Trade in the name avoid.

[strangeangel]

Mrs L has a newish Sandero and its fantastic, a lot better than it has any right to be really and whilst its a pretty anti-fashion car it does what its supposed to do really well, is comfy, well screwed together and has sensible enough suspension to not feel like you're driving down a washboard every time you go out. The plan with it is to run it pretty much until it drops and that feels like forever at this rate.

 

I remember you posting about this, nice to hear its going well. We've been thinking about a Sandero to replace Our Lass' Panda when it eventually detonates like the Blues Brothers' Dodge.

[sierraman]

There's good new cars and shit new cars. Same as there's good bangers and shit ones. I can completely understand why people buy new ones as if they didn't I'd have no car. The guy who had my daily lost £18,000 in 8 years on it.

[SiC]

The big clue with these places is the name '... Trade Cars/sales' or whatever. You'll get no end of disclaimers about mileage, test drives etc. Any place with Trade in the name avoid.

A bit like this then?

 

 

He did get me to sign something to say it was spares & repairs only. Didn't bother me as I won it on an eBay auction and so auction rules applied anyway - i.e. none.