Project Strangeangel's Shite-tastic Shenanigans 12/12 NEW MOTOR - ACHIEVED.

[brownnova]

Oh no!!! On the way home from the footy? 

[strangeangel]

1 minute ago, brownnova said:

Oh no!!! On the way home from the footy? 

 

Sadly, yes. I was just thinking what good time we'd made too! I got to Holmfirth and the STOP light came on; wasn't massively worried about that as it does need a top up from time to time. Unfortunately half a litre of LHM wasn't enough to put the light out, and gradually the steering got heavier and the rear suspension was on the stops by the time I was back in the village. We managed to limp the rest of the way home where I discovered the above...

 

[brownnova]

Bugger... glad you got home though. 

[strangeangel]

2 minutes ago, brownnova said:

Bugger... glad you got home though. 

 

Well, it was off to the Citroen specialists at Holmebridge for its MOT on Monday anyway. I will load up with all the LHM from the garage and take it steady on the way over. There was going to be a bill anyway, it's just going to be bigger is all ?

 

The only other time it broke down (alternator failed) was also on the way home from a Wales match, and on that occasion it also managed to get itself home.

 

[BL Bloke]

Good to hear that you got home despite the leak. Hope it doesn't cost too much to sort out. 

[dollywobbler]

Bad times. That looks suspiciously like either a failed rear cylinder or front-to-rear pipe. I hope it isn't the latter, as it's a pig of a job (subframe drop time). My 305,000 mile BX estate did that. My friend who sorted it still hasn't entirely forgiven me for giving him the job...

[strangeangel]

6 hours ago, dollywobbler said:

Bad times. That looks suspiciously like either a failed rear cylinder or front-to-rear pipe. I hope it isn't the latter, as it's a pig of a job (subframe drop time). My 305,000 mile BX estate did that. My friend who sorted it still hasn't entirely forgiven me for giving him the job...

 

All four front to rears were replaced last year, so hopefully it's the former!

 

 

[strangeangel]

On a more positive note, I've fitted a new fuel pump to the Ami. No pictures because it's just a like-for-like swap. I decided to leave the electric pump conversion until I knew for definite that the failure was down to the old pump. I've had a quick test run and all seems OK, going to take it out again now. If I'm right then it's defo getting converted!

 

[strangeangel]

On 3/6/2020 at 2:28 PM, somewhatfoolish said:

Depends on what kind of motor it is; is there a data plate or a removable panel/cover hiding brushes etc? Moar pics needed.

 

Righto...

 

 

 

 

Now to have a look inside that removable sleeve/mounting bracket and, wait a minute...

 

 

That looks a bit crispy!

 

 

Ah.

 

 

And that looks TOTALLY FUCKING FUCKED to me M8.

 

By way of comparison, these are the brushes from the 'new' motor:

 

 

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Garden variety DC motor with brushes and a commutator. Your motor appears to have FTPed because of a brush either disintegrating or wearing out and falling out of the holder, although it's wrecked the holder on the way, the other brush looks to have cooked itself because the spring wasn't bearing on it properly, causing an overheat through arcing/sparking. If you are sufficiently keen you could get the rotor tested by a specialist with a 'growler' (fnarr etc) with a view to repairing it with a replacement brush holder and a set of brushes, although the commutator will need a good look at given the way the brushes have failed.

[strangeangel]

2 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

If you are sufficiently keen you could get the rotor tested by a specialist with a 'growler' (fnarr etc) with a view to repairing it with a replacement brush holder and a set of brushes, although the commutator will need a good look at given the way the brushes have failed.

 

 

Cheers. I have found a couple of places in Huddersfield that test and repair electric motors. I'm thinking I might get them both checked out.

 

EDIT: the Italian firm who made the motors for Aixam are still in business - have fired off an email to see if there's any possibility of getting spares.

 

[strangeangel]

Right then. I have to get the wounded BX to it's MOT (and repairs) tomorrow. It's a six mile journey, and I have 2 litres of LHM. What d'you reckon my chances are of:

a) getting the car to rise up?

b) reaching our destination?

 

Place yer bets, folks, and wish us luck!

 

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

On 7 March 2020 at 3:57 PM, strangeangel said:

...EDIT: the Italian firm who made the motors for Aixam are still in business - have fired off an email to see if there's any possibility of getting spares.

They are in Modena, in the Emilia-Romagna region. Is that area not on lockdown due to the coronavirus thing?

1 hour ago, strangeangel said:

Right then. I have to get the wounded BX to it's MOT (and repairs) tomorrow. It's a six mile journey, and I have 2 litres of LHM. What d'you reckon my chances are of:

a) getting the car to rise up?

b) reaching our destination?

 

Place yer bets, folks, and wish us luck!

I'll give 2-1 that the car rises, and 8-1 on reaching the destination unaided.

[Zelandeth]

If you're in the general area of MK and need some LHM feel free to drop me a line... I've got a load of it that I've kept meaning to combine together into a couple of bigger drums as there are bottles of it bloody everywhere!

[strangeangel]

15 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

They are in Modena, in the Emilia-Romagna region. Is that area not on lockdown due to the coronavirus thing?

 

 

Dunno, but they managed to reply to my email OK...

 

Quote

Yes Brushes are euro 92 ( price for 4 pcs ) WE have a minimum order of 100 euro so may be you need some more pcs Please confirm REgards Franco

 

So that's not bad. In other news, Autoaid will be taking the BX to its MOT.

 

EDIT: this picture is getting too common in this thread for my liking!

 

 

 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

2 hours ago, strangeangel said:

 

....EDIT: this picture is getting too common in this thread for my liking!

 

 

Join the club.

I think my CX has been on the back of a transporter at least three or four times now. Likely to be another such trip next month or after....

[strangeangel]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:40 PM, somewhatfoolish said:

Garden variety DC motor with brushes and a commutator. Your motor appears to have FTPed because of a brush either disintegrating or wearing out and falling out of the holder, although it's wrecked the holder on the way, the other brush looks to have cooked itself because the spring wasn't bearing on it properly, causing an overheat through arcing/sparking. If you are sufficiently keen you could get the rotor tested by a specialist with a 'growler' (fnarr etc) with a view to repairing it with a replacement brush holder and a set of brushes, although the commutator will need a good look at given the way the brushes have failed.

 

Having had time to think about this now... do you think it's possible that a motor like this could have been running with only three of the four brushes intact, and then only finally FTPd once the second failed?

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Not an expert but brushes are in pairs forming circuits, depending on how the rotor is wired a multipole motor might have 2 circuits and thus 4 brushes; damage to one brush puts one circuit out of use and if they are running paralleled then there is potential for the controller to put twice the rated current through the remaining circuit and cooking it, especially if the controller is dumb.

[vulgalour]

Do you know what it is that's leaking LHM on your BX?  I've an intermittent leak from the same place but no loss of LHM and I'd put it down to the rubber boots/return hoses being shot on that side (both sides are covered in sealant).  I've new ones to go on, just haven't had opportunity to fit them.

[strangeangel]

58 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Do you know what it is that's leaking LHM on your BX?  I've an intermittent leak from the same place but no loss of LHM and I'd put it down to the rubber boots/return hoses being shot on that side (both sides are covered in sealant).  I've new ones to go on, just haven't had opportunity to fit them.

 

No word from the garage yet. Ian hazarded a guess further up the thread, I'm pretty sure it won't be the front-to-rears as they were all replaced last year.

 

[strangeangel]

On 3/11/2020 at 5:15 PM, vulgalour said:

Do you know what it is that's leaking LHM on your BX?  I've an intermittent leak from the same place but no loss of LHM and I'd put it down to the rubber boots/return hoses being shot on that side (both sides are covered in sealant).  I've new ones to go on, just haven't had opportunity to fit them.

 

The garage rang today, to tell me that a fractured OSR suspension pipe had caused the terminal loss of LHM. Apparently not a big job; they're making up a new pipe to fix that, and then it's MOT time...

 

In other news, the postman called today:

 

 

[vulgalour]

Thankful you got an easy fix there.  Last I checked under mine the pipe that I could see/feel was dry so I'm hopeful it's not the same issue and is instead the worn out boots.

[strangeangel]

Two tyres

Front discs and pads

Wishbone

Split CV boot

Knackered exhaust mid section

NS strut top collapsed

Weldage to NS sill

Perished rear suspension unit rubber

The aforementioned suspension pipe

A lot of LHM

 

It'll be fixed and tested by the end of next week ?

 

[Broadsword]

That is a scary list, especially the strut top being collapsed. Props to you for getting it fixed!

[strangeangel]

2 hours ago, Broadsword said:

That is a scary list, especially the strut top being collapsed. Props to you for getting it fixed!

 

It's not so bad really. Not when you consider that many of those are things that wear out on any car. The strut top problem is the bolted on bit as opposed to rot in that area of the car, so when you consider that it's reached 32 and that sill is only the second bit of welding its needed... well, I'll take that.

 

Granted, the bill is in the high hundreds, and I know that I'm lucky amongst 'shiters to be able to spend that without worrying, but it genuinely makes me happy to drive this 500 miles to the Wales match and back, and not a Hyundai i10 or some such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[strangeangel]

So... I'd been thinking about getting the two mighty Aixam power plants checked out by a local electric motor expert. That's gone by the board now that I know the BX will be bringing a sizeable bill with it on its return from M&M (albeit sporting a shiny, new MOT). My patience with the Aixam couldn't really wear much thinner than it is now; before this I have seriously considered taking out the batteries for my garage solar power experiments and putting a circular saw through the car, currently (pun not intended) I could care less whether the ungrateful little shit lives or dies. So, on that basis I'm going to examine the two motors myself and see what happens.

 

First off, a bit of housekeeping. On my recent visit to Bolton, I bought what essentially adds up to the contents of the bonnet of a Mega City+, which looks like this:

 

 

I dismantled the new one:

 

 

I'm thinking I might use that as a bash plate to replace the one Aixam's fuckwits, sorry, designers made out of soundproofing mat. I know it's extra weight, but I'm still well in credit having slung the rear seat and associated brackets, seat belts etc. Anyway, I now have a nice, tidy* shelf full of useful* spare parts that I'm not tripping over every time i try to get something done.

 

 

Time to examine these motors then... the help of @somewhatfoolish has been invaluable thus far, and - with the help of my trusty multi-meter - I manager to ascertain that what he said was right about the brushes being in pairs. The two which were ruined were indeed in the same pair.

 

 

 

I couldn't get a good photo, but the commutator looks shagged. More on this later... I decided to save what I could from this motor and go with the one from the scrapper, which appears to be in far better condition. The two surviving brushes look newer than what was left of the others, and there were two viable brush holders too (replacements of these will rush you a cool 185 Euro for one!). Off with the top, then:

 

 

To save the bits I wanted I had to undo the two allen bots through the red inner ring and then undo all the outer ones to allow the guts of the motor to be withdrawn. Underneath are the earth connectors which can now be removed. Once the motor was properly opened up you can see the state of the commutator:

 

 

 

The one in the new* motor is way better than this. Here's the brushes and holders I saved from the wreckage:

 

 

Weather permitting, tomorrow I will have a go at fitting the new motor!

 

[dollywobbler]

Phew. Glad the pipe was a minor one, and also glad this ol' girl will live on. 

[strangeangel]

5 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Phew. Glad the pipe was a minor one, and also glad this ol' girl will live on. 

 

Yes, defo lives to fight another year, which pleases me immensely.

 

[Zelandeth]

Really hope you can get the Axiam going again!  Not least because I'm fascinated by it and really want a shot of it!

That commutator is a mess, but depending how much meat is left on there it may well be possible for it to be cleaned up on a lathe. 

A failed brush or brush holder would definitely fit with the fault condition that you observed - and the lack of power beforehand if you were running on three working brushes.

[somewhatfoolish]

The commutator does have a lot of scorching and possible arc damage but there does not appear to be much wear; give it a rub with some wet and dry before condemning it. It's probably worth seeing if those motor reconditioning places can furnish generic brushes, the price you quoted seems a little salty for a service item.