A-framing (I KNOW, NOT AGAIN FFS!!!!!)

[MrDuke]

Sorry etc....

 

If the law treats A-framed cars as trailers, do they need MOT/tax/insurance?

[jonathan_dyane]

The search function is your friend.

[MrDuke]

Yeah, I did and found lots of excellent descriptions of A-framing adventures. None of them seemed to directly answer the question though.

[KruJoe]

Depending where you read, you'll find differing interpretations of the rules. Generally, the more road legal the towed car is, the better. Especially if you're planning to come un-stuck.

 

I figured we (at Castle_Cleland) were pushing our luck a bit, attempting to "recover" increasingly repulsive wrecks, so I won us a transporter trailer for the worst of them.

[vulgalour]

Cleland Recovery - A(RGH!)-Frames a speciality.

[garbaldy]

As far as I'm concerned it's a trailer and so it legal so I don't care, neither do the police or vosa from my experiences.

 

However the law seems to state that if the towed vehicle has any of it's wheels on the floor then it must be insured, mot'd and taxed!

 

Yes you could say its a trailer but then it would have to be under 750kg or it has to be braked.

[Cavcraft]

'All four wheels on the road=must be taxed, MOT'd and insured'

[nigel bickle]

Who cares?

 

If it looks ' right', they will "probably" leave you alone.

 

If it looks ' wrong' lift it, at least that axle.

 

There are no definitive answers, yet. Don't be that Court Case...

[Dave_Q]

You can reduce the paperwork required with the following equipment:

 

A hi-vis vest = tax not required

Flashing beacon of legitimacy = MOT not required

Proper looking trailer board or magnetic lights = insurance not required

 

Seriously though, while the technical answer is that all are required, most police/VOSA etc don't know the rules either, so the best advice is to make your rig look as professional as possible, and probably splash out on day insurance for the "trailer" if you're worried.

[Pete-M]

Chap I know just got 6 points and a £750 fine for no insurance on the car that was being A framed.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

blimey thats harsh

[Eddie Honda]

blimey thats harsh

 

Is it? an IN10 offence carries 6 to 8 points and a Band C fine.

 

So the bare minimum that can be given on indictment is 6 points. Now a "Band C" fine has a starting point of 150% of relevant weekly income, but can be in the range 125% - 175%.

 

Therefore, if you have some coin, you get a £750 fine, if you're a povvo, you get fined less like 150-200. It's all proportional.

 

Have a quick gander at page 130 and 148 : https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/MCSG_web_-_October_2014.pdf they work from that and don't just pull figures out of their arses (I hope).

 

(Fines can also have "levels", such as not wearing a seatbelt is Level 2 (£500). This is the statutory maximum they can chuck at you even if you are a persistent offender called Lord Stinking-Rich.)

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I meant it was harsh that the 'crime' was that the towed car was uninsured. No one was driving it!

[Barry Cade]

Yes you could say its a trailer but then it would have to be under 750kg or it has to be braked.

The RDT in my van has no brakes.....

 

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210144/guide-for-recovery-operations.pdf

[Eddie Honda]

I see, but then again if you look at mitigating circumstances that allow them to adjust down from the starting point "4. Vehicle not being driven" is one of them. In the other direction of adjusting the sentence up (aggravating factor) would be something like "Accident resulting in injury".

 

The offence is probably S143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, and that mentions "use" and "cause or permit" use. If you are towing something down the road, then the thing that is being towed is being used. Doesn't need to be driven, ridden, walked, pulled or pushed. Just "used".

 

I'm undecided as to whether it is harsh or not. Mainly because we don't know that individual facts that the case may have turned on. To speculate, lets say that the towed thing was deemed to be a trailer. If the policy in force had an exclusion to towing things then the whole lot might not be considered insured for the purposes of the Act.

 

I think I know what you mean though. 200 quid a few points looks lenient for the "muppets" on Road Wars, but they're scum that don't have a pot to piss in on paper. Unfortunately if you are in gainful employment you get your baws booted. 

[Slartibartfast]

This morning I saw someone in a small 4x4 (Rav4 or similar) A-framing a small truck down the A3 in the driving rain. Ballsy, I thought.

[MrDuke]

Meh, I've decided to spunk £75 on a trailer rather than risk getting stung for a lot more. Obviously, I won't see one single cop car or DVOSVDSVAA checkpoint during the entire journey now, but hey.

[Lankytim]

Even if the towed vehicle is under 750kg, it still has brakes fitted which need to be working, so you can also be done for DEFECTIVE BRAKES.

 

I think the whole issue is weather the copper who sees you has had a blow job that morning or not.

[twosmoke300]

Even if the towed vehicle is under 750kg, it still has brakes fitted which need to be working, so you can also be done for DEFECTIVE BRAKES.

 

I think the whole issue is weather the copper who sees you has had a blow job that morning or not.

Louise - your up

[Lankytim]

This is from the Blackstones manual, I scanned it a while back. It dates from 2000 so could be out of date now.

 

 

 

So, is a towed car a trailer or a car? A trailer would mean it wouldn't need tax, mot or insurance. 

[Bobthebeard]

Louise - your up

No.. Just ...no. Surely? Offence may well be rightfully taken!

[twosmoke300]

Sorry if it has been - Louise - your husband is a copper right ?

[Louise2cv]

Ta chaps, but none taken I can take a joke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't recommend A-framing anything round 'ere though.

[twosmoke300]

Phew ! Thought I had dropped one of those thread ending clangers .

Curse my rugby club / forces mates humour