WTF is this ( non shite content )

[dugong]

My money's on it being a heavily modified Convair \ TWM \ Nordec Excell coupe (their emphasis). At least one gullwing Convair was produced (albeit with a different end and C pillar scoop. It may be a hard top with a special roof cut out.

 

A car very similar to this (in profile, but not details) turned up on Old Classic Car:

 

 

http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/spaceframe.htm

[barrett]

Yeah that's it innit! I'd forgotten about that one. Looks like the rear wings were hacked about a bit at some point. Fits with the 1962 reg, too.

 

10/10, GREAT MEMORY DUGONG. WOULD CONSULT AGAIN

[barrett]

Actually comparing the two side by side I am gonna say it's not it, the tumblehome of the body of the orange one is far too pronounced. I reckon they're too close to be unconnected though, the reverse rake headlamp openings, screen, doors, one-piece flip front etc all point at some shared DNA.

 

THE MYSTERY DEEPENS

[dugong]

  On 18/11/2015 at 08:13, barrett said:

Actually comparing the two side by side I am gonna say it's not it, the tumblehome of the body of the orange one is far too pronounced. I reckon they're too close to be unconnected though, the reverse rake headlamp openings, screen, doors, one-piece flip front etc all point at some shared DNA.

 

THE MYSTERY DEEPENS

There are enough common points to make me think it's either a bought in and subsequently modified version (Convair to TWM to Nordec) that isn't listed anywhere - maybe a Convair somebody modified as a one off. That orange one has been hacked about - who's to say that blue example wasn't altered with more care? The rear wings and head lights are very similar. File as derivative \ close relative.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

 

I came across this Convair last night but dismissed it as a base because of the lack of a one piece front. That red one looks much more like a possible base.

[dugong]

The later roadsters and coupes had front and rear treatments very similar to our car. That Convair above was its earliest model - coupes and roadsters could be purchased with that swoopy profile.  

 

I still reckon the car in Rusty's book was a professionally finished Convair, Nordec or TWM Excell, the roadster's successor. 

[Inspector Morose]

I'd agree, the front is very similar, the rear wings are a similar shape but a lot more rounded but could have been modified fairly easily but the gull wing doors are the wrong shape. There's a cut out around the rear wheel on the original picture that just isn't there on the Convair. Could it have been modified? Well yes but on the pics of the Convair, inside the rear of the door opening is a deep moulding that would be very hard to cut about successfully.

 

It's a bitsa alright. But what from?

[dugong]

The apertures are wrong on the orange  Convair, granted - but the only other 'Sixties gullwing special \ bitsa I can come up with is the Marcos Gullwing, which is nothing like. Modifying the door shuts would be a hell of a lot of work, but it may have been necessary to clear the chassis like with the orange example above. There were loads of places offering tube chassis in the late 'Fiftes \ early 'Sixties - Buckler and Halifax, for example. 
 

Those mad protruding front over riders still make me suspect it was a crazy Reliant Sabra \ Sabre coupe someone modified as a publicity stunt, or something. 

[garethj]

It might not have gullwing doors, they might just go into the roof like a GT40.

 

Having said that, I'm only viewing it on my phone and everything is a bit blurry

[Lord Sterling]

This is bugging me as I've seen this body style before/car, something about it screams "Japanese make" to me. It may also be French. The back end looks more like a Rootes 'tail fin' but the front is more British MGB-like inset lights/sloping bonnet. The middle I can't make out.

 

Although the plate might look French, remember, we can't really see it properly and it could well be a normal old-style Black and White British plates.

[Rusty Pelican]

  On 17/11/2015 at 22:18, barrett said:

Any chance you could post the cover of the book? I'd like to get a copy and try for a better scan if possible

Sorry Barrett I dont have a copy , this was an email i got third hand asking the same question , its also on a facebook group im on.

No one as yet has a definite answer , i was hoping you would know as you are font of this type of thing .

I really hope we get to the bottom of this as a life time of not knowing might drive me even more nuts than i already am 

[anonymous user]

  On 18/11/2015 at 16:59, Lord Sterling said:

This is bugging me as I've seen this body style before/car, something about it screams "Japanese make" to me. It may also be French. The back end looks more like a Rootes 'tail fin' but the front is more British MGB-like inset lights/sloping bonnet. The middle I can't make out.

 

Although the plate might look French, remember, we can't really see it properly and it could well be a normal old-style Black and White British plates.

Are you thinking René Bonnet? Some similarities, but still not there, especially the rear roof-line, I do wonder if it was just a one-off.

 

 

If I can hijack this thread a little, I'm wondering if a particular special still exists. It was for sale in one of the secondhand car places in City Road Cardiff in the late 1970s (my brother tried to buy it, but being a poor student didn't manage to get it) This thread made me remember about it, as this mystery car may also be a one-off.

 

The Cardiff one was the LVT Special (conceived by a Lionel Thomas) registered LVT1. Google only brings up a brief mention in Motorsport from its new owner, tying in with when it was in Cardiff, and  http://www.riley-prewar-special.com/403/historische_historic_specials/435/index.html, which doesn't indicate if it still exists.

[barrett]

The LVT Riley still exists, but that body was scrapped and it has been restored back to original specification, sadly

[barrett]

Actually tell a lie, I was thinking of another car that looks exactly the same from the scuttle back. The LVT is still around and I remember spotting it in the background of some photos advertising a different car on ebay a while back. I have some 'now' pics of it somewhere

[anonymous user]

I knew you'd know if anyone did, my brother has kicked himself for years over that car and regularly mentions it as the one that got away; it wasn't expensive at the time, but for a student just that bit too much.

[barrett]

There it is!

[anonymous user]

Whoo hoo, I wonder if it still has the Jag engine in it, or whether it's gone back to a Riley one. Thanks for that.

 

I still can't work out what the other one is though.

[dugong]

  On 22/11/2015 at 21:04, barrett said:

18581b6cfbd8069923f5ae8e22274a394832044b.jpg

There it is!

Christ, I'd have put money on that being a Healey Westland rather than a one-off bodied Riley. Any connection?

[barrett]

I think the front wings are actually off a Westland, yeah

[vulgalour]

In that picture it looks awesome, if it weren't for the people it would also look massive.  Do like.

[Rusty Pelican]

Copied from another site , sounds promising 

 It looks like it could be called a Dolphin which was a Ford 103E kit car which never went into production. The company which was going to make it was based in London. 
This is what I found & the year seems to match the photo & the last part of the description seem to describe the car in the photo.

''I doubt if the Dolphin was ever built. Certainly no picture ever appeared other than this line drawing ( see link although it looks feck all like it TBH ) . It was advertised for a few months at the start of 1961 in Motor Clubman and Special builder magazine. The shells were to be made for Dolphin by Peasmarsh Reinforced Plastics of Guildford, Surrey. They would be available with either high fin or swept down rear and in two or four seat versions. 
The 7`6" Mk1 and Mk2 would be supplied ex works for an estimated £99 and £106. The shells would be available in six colours, fully trimmed with all edges fully returned and weather sealed. Double skinned doors with pockets would be hinged and locked and the one piece forward hinged bonnet would be held in place by chrome plated spring clips. The boot was also to be hinged and locked and the headlamps recessed into the wings and covered by perspex blisters. A front bulkhead and dash board were to be provided as were one or two head rest fairings to the customers choice plus a wrap-round perspex windscreen. Hardtops were to be made available as was a GT version for early 1962 complete with gull wing doors.''

 

 

 

 

http://www.fordspecials.co.uk/dolphin.html

the address of Dolphin Sports Shells was 35 Rosslyn Hill, according to Google maps that's less than 4 miles from the site  of the original photo 

[Rusty Pelican]

Holy thread resurrection 

Remember this mystery car from way back in 2015 

Well apparently its  The Sunbeam Alpine fastback concept; 

Might of been called a TS4 

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

  On 05/03/2021 at 11:44, Rusty Pelican said:

Holy thread resurrection 

Remember this mystery car from way back in 2015 

Well apparently its  The Sunbeam Alpine fastback concept; 

Might of been called a TS4 

 

Expand  

Now THAT'S a thread resurrection success. 

I wonder how many were built, and what happened to it? 

[Datsuncog]

Holy moley, I think you may have cracked it, at long last.

This thing has always been foremost in my mind whenever flicking through 1960s custom car books... but that clay mockup and design blueprint seem to match it in every respect, including wheeltrims.

Well well well.

You've earned yourself a Crunchie, young man!

[Pieman]

The above is a rendering made by someone on Pistonheads a couple of years ago I believe, it appeared on this FB page around the same time - https://www.facebook.com/TigerTS4/posts/sunbeam-alpine-fastback-concept/2084043795037701/

[bunglebus]

Yeah, popped up on my Faceache feed this morning. No-one's ever worked out what it is, probably a well made amateur effort

[JeeExEll]

I think the guy who did the car modelling decided for himself that it was a Sunbeam Alpine (TS4 ??) concept and that's all there was to it, problem solved, end of story.  Despite there being absolutely no period Rootes Group archive data to back up such a claim (so far).  Maybe more (any) supporting archive info will come to light, who knows?

It's a really well-done fabricated render based on a mixture of selective guesswork and 'what if's.  It was very interesting to see how it was created and the guy has skilz I wish I had, but a 2018 'conclusion' can't actually go back in time and invent something which had never existed in 1962. 

123/10 for effort though, must have been an enjoyable exercise.

[Datsuncog]

  On 05/03/2021 at 14:01, JeeExEll said:

I think the guy who did the car modelling decided himself that it was a Sunbeam Alpine (TS4 ??) concept and that's all there was to it, problem solved, end of story.  Despite there being absolutely no Rootes Group archive data to back up such a claim (so far).  Maybe more (any) supporting archive info will come to light, who knows?

It's a well-done fabricated render based on a mixture of selective guesswork and 'what if's.  Very interesting to see how it was created and the guy has skilz I wish I had, but a 2018 'conclusion' can't actually go back in time and invent something which never existed in 1962. 

123/10 for effort though, must have been an enjoyable exercise.

(You wouldn't want that guy doing jury duty if you were being tried for murder).

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Just as I thought my torment had ceased. Oh well, it was a pleasant four hours.

 😭

Still, best to know the truth... there does seem to be a fair bit of Sunbeam Alpine to the waistline and fins, so I can see what yer man on Pistonheads was driving at.

  On 05/03/2021 at 12:41, Datsuncog said:

You've earned yourself a Crunchie, young man!

Expand  

Best make it a fun-size Crunchie, eh?

[Rusty Pelican]

Bollocks , thought it was solved , no crunchie deserved 🙄

[barrett]

This guy seems to be splashing his Alpine idea all over the internet at the moment and seems incapable of being swayed despite the fact there is zero evidence it's a Sunbeam. He strikes me as a wide-eyed loon tbh.

The whole thing seems to be predicated on the fact that both cars have find, whilst ignoring basic things like the fact that it clearly has completely different proportions to an Alpine (like, totally different - the bonnet is much longer and the cabin much shorter for starters), there was already an Alpine fastback on the market when this photo was taken, it shares zero panels with an Alpine and if Rootes built an experimental car which was road registered and cruising round London  there would be at least a tiny scrap of evidence somewhere to support this.

Verdict: deluded nutter