The Independent trade - unfairly hammered?

[mercrocker]

Really lucky round our way - village garage still understands proper cars, there is a restorer and long-established workshop three villages away and on the industrial estate a great MB independent who  has looked after my W201 and W124 for some years now.  Not cheap (unless compared to a MB dealer) but they treat the car like it was a 100,000 mile 5 year old instead of a 100,000 25 year old.   I also use a gearbox specialist for any transmission work - again an absolutely great place, very busy and not one to be pushed for quick repairs but handy for work which makes dropping off easy.

 

Just found what I hope is a good T25 VW bloke not far from my storage unit so will be giving him a try over the winter.

 

One thing I always do if scouting for a good place is to try them out with an MOT first or service first, ask some questions, have a quick nose around the place if that's possible and finally try and pick the car up at 5pm when all the customers are doing the same - amazing what feedback some people unwittingly give when they are collecting their cars.

 

Its taken me a long time to find these people and I have made a lot of expensive mistakes in the process.

 

One thing all these places have in common are that they are all bloody busy and have weathered quite a few of the recent recessional dips.  They must be doing something right as most of them have been at it for 20 years or more in the same location.  

[phil_lihp]

It's not just garages, it was a real eye-opener when I went self-employed as an IT contractor.  I'd hugely underpriced myself as I found out later (my nearest competitor was charging double my hourly rate) but nonetheless a lot of my 'home' users either never paid up or acted indignant that I was trying to charge them actual money for spending 2 hours fixing their virus-ridden PC, even whilst telling me how much quicker it was and how it had never been this good even when new.  I sacked off home customers after 12 months, raised my rates and stuck to businesses only and never had another problem.

 

I'm lucky to have a one-man garage just down the road who gets all my business now, I've known him for a few years now and he's brilliant.  Doesn't charge a lot, likes older cars and will do his best to save money with good secondhand parts when he can.  Even then, he's told me he won't now fit parts that the customer has supplied, they're too often wrong anyway and then he gets it in the neck from them for the hassle it causes.  There's a dead Clio in his yard full of various engine bits the owner supplied it with, none of them right for the car.  I won't begrudge him his markup, he deserves it as any business does and the cambelt and clutch he supplied and fitted to the i10 were more or less the same price as the ECP bits I'd bought to do the job myself anyway.  I returned those and everyone wins (except ECP I suppose).  He doesn't advertise anywhere as far as I know and no-one else I know seems to know about him but he's constantly busy through word-of-mouth.

 

I wonder if part of the cost complaint issue is the lack of a tangible benefit for the money to someone with no mechanical understanding - on, say, a cambelt change, where the car seems no different for what might be a substantial outlay.  If owners got some sort of idea of the effort, parts and time involved, perhaps some would be a little less indignant about paying up.

[taxi paul]

Like i have said my local garage is great. When I went up to yorkshire to look at a Mazda tribute the wheel arches were rusted . So rang my garage for advice. Described what I could see and he gave me a roundabout price for bargaining use. Cant fault him. I usually get all my own parts for servicing and repairs and just pay him labour. Like he Said he doesn't really make money on parts.we have five cars in the family and I take them all to him. My sons girlfriends family all lease new Citroens and a fee mates have pcp finance linked into service plans for warranty purposes.I just have plain old finance over four years, facility to hand back half way through. So I normally keep it for two years then part ex ,or hand back and start again. I got my rover 75 in one easy cash payment . No service plan or warranty. 😊

[DaveAspley]

Is there any chance we could have a sticky thread for all the "good guys" on here , from garages to guys like me who spent 15 years in the main dealer end of the trade getting more and more disillusioned with the sell sell sell culture , making the company 7 grand a week and taking home £290, ended up with a shack at the side of the house, a set of tools and some business cards? (Parts and fluids at cost, labour £30 p/h)

[alf892]

 

We use an old school specialist indy for the Merc, it costs what it costs, i have absolute faith in Albert Lock and he's never done me wrong, some jobs are cheap and easy and some jobs are a bastard and bloody time consuming, it is what it is.

Albert Lock used to fix the ones Arlington (merc dealers) Northampton couldn't.........

[DaveAspley]

That was with no sick pay, no pension, and buying all your own tools ans equipment except the ramp and diagnostics

[UmBongo]

We used a guy who worked from a lock up until he, um, set himself on fire.

 

Then I came into some money and lived the dream, buying a BRAND NEW MICRA, keeping it for seven years, and having it serviced and repaired at the Nelson Mandela. Bleddy rip-off merchants, too.

 

Now I have two cars and use a local independent - three branches - which is only twenty minutes walk from my house.

 

They're pretty good and I don't really have any complaints.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to be a mechanic or garage owner having to work in cold, damp conditions and screwing up my hands through hard manual labour.

 

Not to mention taking crap from car owners looking for the 'cheapest tyres you've got, pal.'

[twosmoke300]

Don't get me wrong about the wages , I may not take home a huge amount but being self employed has massive benefits / perks . I've never been as well off as I am now . Maybe because I don't have the time to spend any !

I've always put in 110% in wherever I've worked so don't notice that much difference tbh . It's nice to not be lining anyone else's pockets tho .

[Eddie Honda]

fuel costs are up

Whilst I agree with the rest of what you said, I do have to ask where have you been the last 4 months? DERV has been heading south (again) since the start of June.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

It's taken me 30 odd years to find people I'm happy with and can afford. My local Merc Indie ( I fuckin hate that Trite PH,Radio 2, Waitrose term!) James at AutoClass in Milton Keynes is really good ,not cheap but half the price of Merc main dealer.

Likewise AutoWerx BMW specialist Matt, knows his stuff and bent over backwards to help me recently.

For MOTs and related work on older heaps a local part worn tyre place run by two brothers Mohammed and Zubin have been great - they'll actually try and repair stuff and always keep me informed what needs doing and let me decide if it's worth doing.

I've just worked out I've spent over £2000 in the last year with these 3 and that doesn't include tyres or brakes and other simple things I do myself.

Plus my body man Rich at Andy Oil in Bletchley who's been a mate for 35 years and has daubed paint on anything I've damaged or ( Mercs ,I'm looking at you here) gone rusty.

[strangeangel]

Yes and no, some of them are complete shit, but we all get tarred with the same brush.

 

Indeed, just like most trades really. Find someone you trust and stick with them as long as you can. This is why I have a 42 mile round trip to get my bikes MOTd or have work done that I'm not up to doing myself. There's a good place for car MOTs in the next village, but I don't always get that lucky.

[Barry Cade]

I'm glad I'm out of the garage again. 25 years in the trade and utterly sick of it. Now I am a glorified van driver, spend much more time at home, no hassles with MOT updates or VOSA, I can listen to the radio all day for free and I have heating in my "workshop". All for slightly more money than changing cambelts on Audi V8's and reconditioning Porsche 928 steering racks. Tried going it alone, loved it but didn't charge enough. Used to look after a few exotics and when I looked through the previous service history on them I was charging about 20% of what they were.. I'm no businessman.

 

R.I.P Motor trade.

 

 

 

[forddeliveryboy]

Cars are treated as if they don't need servicing today, once they're beyond their first cambelt change, from what I see.

 

When it was Moggie Minor era, I suppose servicing was vital - otherwise the car would start and run poorly. But fresh oil, filters and a walk round with a grease gun about sorted things, with the occasional set of brake shoes. Any breakdowns were easily sorted.

 

Today, cars continue to run in tune even without servicing. When they are serviced, the cost is often large with little or no difference felt, even without routine cambelt and waterpump changes. Unless it's a Panda or other similarly straightforwards little car, people today seem to limp from crisis to crisis when the bill is of course then humungous. Round here where it's all washboard-surfaced back roads, the number of suspension items which need replacing every year is huge - it never used to be. Poor design, loads more power and speed, lower quality components - even OE ones.

 

I can see the sense in electric cars, with relatively little to go wrong, compared with a modern motor.

[Barry Cade]

 

 

I can see the sense in electric cars, with relatively little to go wrong, compared with a modern motor.

You think?

This last week alone I've had 2 Renault Zoe's and a Nissan Leaf on the back of my truck... due to electronics failures. In the Renault dealership were 3 more Zoe's waiting for repair.

[forddeliveryboy]

You think?

This last week alone I've had 2 Renault Zoe's and a Nissan Leaf on the back of my truck... due to electronics failures. In the Renault dealership were 3 more Zoe's waiting for repair.

 

I'd have thought any manufacturer introducing an entirely* new idea of car would have gone to great efforts to make sure they were reliable - reputations are lost for a generation. Still, Renault has little to lose in the UK.

 

If they can't make the electronics reliable in an EV, what hope in a normal car with heat, vibration and all the other things associated with explosions.

[Bear]

I've been very vocal about the issues I've had with mechanics/specialists/garages - and they range from "a chap who specialises in one marque" to "manufacturer supported main dealer". The issue with the Borders was that it was a captive market, with little competition and plenty of crooks who'd be okay in their comfort zone, but would take on jobs they simply had no concept of the scale of, for clients that were too critical (like me), and screw them up, then be unable to rectify without wanting to charge even more.

 

As a result, I could get the best, cheapest specialist recommended and I'd still be reluctant to take the car there. And it's not like I don't know how long, difficult and unpleasant these jobs can be - my issue was always with shortcuts, bodging or simply not doing the work. Expensive wasn't a factor. Incompetence was.

 

Now, tellingly, none of those mechanics (or their employees that were the same age or younger than me) are on any forums I've seen where car enthusiasts congregate. I suspect that's the real truth behind it. I work on cars for the love of the machine. I'd never do it for money, no-one could afford to pay what I'd need for the thorough yet often inexperienced work I have to do on cars. Even when I get experience on a job and tools to make it fast, the fact that I clean up around any work area, attend to cosmetic work, do preventative maintenance means it just wouldn't be economical for most car owners. Flipside, if I had the budget, I'd hand a car over to any mechanic I met on here, because they're a: enthusiasts willing to expose themselves to a peer group, and b: would know what they're getting into

[LC Torana]

An Australian perspective:

 

(ignoring current-affairs-show shonky mechanics complaint stories, you get these people in life everywhere)

 

Your local garage is probably OK - some might overcharge you, but the work will, most likely, have been done.

 

Dealers, on the other hand, have the reputation for stamping your service book without even opening your bonnet.

[xtriple]

Hmmm. Lots of interesting posts and points of view posted/

 

I know loads of mechanics having been in the game for decades and most of them, I wouldn't trust to change the plug on an Atco mower! They seem to learn the fine art of bullshit and excuses as the first half of the three month course ...

 

The ones that are worth knowing tend to be the older guys, but they are getting old and losing interest in dealing with people, who can blame them? Customers are cunts of the first order in the main! Everything these days is some one elses fault so when the car fails, it's the last person who touched its fault - even if they did the brakes/changed a tyre and the head gasket has just blown!

 

I've worked for main dealers who take great delight in ripping  people off and bragging about it and laughing at the customer behind their backs - not nice, and I've known/worked in independent dealers who lied as a primary source of income.

 

The motor trade is full of shysters... but so is every other aspect of daily life. If you can find a decent guy/garage that you trust treat them like gold 'cos they are few and far between.

 

I trust the local Honda dealer. Bugger me, never trusted a main dealer in my life before, but they do good work, do what they say they will, when they say they will and charge what they say the will. Can't complain about that can you? I took massive delight in giving them an exceptional report to Honda when they asked me about them and continue to do so as and when.

 

Specialist cars are still to be proven. I started out REALLY distrusting them but that may have been me panicking....  But, I will check the work they do/say they've done and if I can, when it's getting close to finished I will go up and see the car on the ramp and go through what they've done. But, I do 'trust' them a lot more than I did, they proved themselves to be gentlemen about the Turbo and lots of people speak highly of them, and I want to be one of them!

 

On the other hand, I have met a few people in recent months who are right rip off merchants, one who is having a dear old lady friend of mine over a treat. But I cannot do anything about it and that was annoying me so I've walked away.

[AlabamaShrimp]

As xtriple says there's lots of interesting posts and differing view points.

 

I personally always felt the local semi independent I've been going to were really good. Always talk to each other as equals, they loved working on my 950's and always did minor work for free and double checked before doing anything bigger. Never argued about the price and they will fit parts I had bought.

 

But they turned into wankers one day claiming the Frontera was late for its test (it wasn't) got in a shit saying they wouldn't even look at it and that the boss said we were always late for appointments. We never had been and it lead to the feeling that they had been taking the piss all this time.

 

On the other hand the main Ford dealers knows both our names and cars even though we only go once a year. The guy that runs the service side is so helpful it's unbelievable a day they aren't expensive

 

I know customers can be utter cocks (it's why I gave up mobile computer repairs) and want everything now while resenting you making any money but if garages know must people don't trust them, and they do, then don't be a typical garage be something different even if you don't want to

[scaryoldcortina]

Whilst I agree with the rest of what you said, I do have to ask where have you been the last 4 months? DERV has been heading south (again) since the start of June.

 

Heating oil and electric, not road fuel. It's winter, I can't work without heat and light.

[Parky]

I use a place in Dagenham for stuff and find they are reasonable value and the techs all have twenty years plus in the trade. They are happy for me to supply my own oil and filters (always a good sign as far as I am concerned) and generally strike me as enthusiasts with dealer standard kit.

 

That said there are quite a few horror shows around but the same applies if you are a pub or a clothes shop. You soon learn who is good and who isn't.

 

Agree the trade has a terrible rep though. Which is a shame as I dare say the vast majority are very honest and need support. Without them we are at the mercy of main dealers, halfords, and kwik fit

[cort16]

Electric motors are more reliable but not necessarily the systems controlling them.

[Taff]

My local BMW specialist has had two opportunities to do me me over in massive terms when I've been convinced that the car has had a massive problem.

On both occasions I was politely reassured, the real fault was identified, fixed cheaply or given back to me to sort and I was sent on my way.

Because he treats everyone this way he doesn't need to advertise and he's booked up 4-6 weeks in advance, despite working 12 a day.

 

He also leaves broken/take off parts on the table outside the office so you can see what the issue was, its often fun to guess what's been done that day, and lets me take the broken bits home for my weigh in pile.

 

I've got a tame F specialist who does the same for jobs that I'm too scared to tackle.

 

Indeed, just like most trades really. Find someone you trust and stick with them as long as you can. This is why I have a 42 mile round trip to get my bikes MOTd or have work done that I'm not up to doing myself. There's a good place for car MOTs in the next village, but I don't always get that lucky.

 

I've been using the same test station for 10 years now, it's a round trip of 30 miles. He's not the cheapest but I trust him. That's enough for me

[omegod]

My local garage, have used him for ten years. Used to have about eight mechanics . He sub let the large frontage to car sales. The car sales went bust about a year ago and he has finally got a new tenant coming soon , a restaurant I think. In the time since the tenant left he has dropped to just himself and a couple of lads. I tend to leave my var with him and get it back when he has done the job. Everyone seems to want everything doing straight away these days. I know a couple of people who wouldn't wait for him and went to fast fit tyre places to have mechanical and servicing work done, cos they can do it straight away. Would you want a tyre fitter doing your service? No disrespect to tyre fitters but ones a mechanic and ones a tyre fitter.

 

 

Would this be Alan's place on Tarbock Rd, I know him pretty well ? Small world !

[Cavcraft]

When my lad had his first (free) service the mechanic at Lookers videod everything off and it was sent in a text message. I think that's a great way to do business and we were impressed with it.

[garbaldy]

 

Would love to know how much the average independent earns.

 

 

A local one man band here is always buying new tools to get his tax costs down, he even bought a full on recovery truck which he hardly uses, I think I've done more miles in it than him, he is in the workshop some evenings very late as he is stowed out and can hardly keep up.

His turn over was an eye opener that's for sure and even though another couple of garages have opened up it hasnt affected his work load one bit,

He earns four times my wage but I wouldn't swap him that's for sure,

[colino]

Turnover, the bane of the specialist small business.  Say for example you have a pretty common fault on a BMW, a decaying abs controller that throws out a lot of varied and, to the uninitiated, unconnected faults.  The driver will see intermittent or steady warning lights on the dash, the mpg meter might start being inaccurate, the speedo might drop to zero from time to time, the brake lights may continuously illuminate, the driver might notice the stereo no longer increases in volume as speed picks up or the automatic gearbox might decide to go in to limp mode and light the gearbox failure warning light.  (Or the scrap it light as some refer to it).

Using skills, knowledge and experience and £12,000 of kit to confirm that two, three or four abs pick-ups have not spontaneously failed and the speed sensor in the gearbox that Dave with his Chinese ebay code-reader has condemned is fine, leads to a bill like this.

Diagnosis, agree with client to replace abs controller, supply and fit abs controller.  £45+VAT (One hours labour).  Parts, £325+VAT.

Client is happy, but thinks the indy must be rich because the total bill including the vodka and tonic is £444 for, "ten minutes work".

[Bear]

Heating oil and electric, not road fuel. It's winter, I can't work without heat and light.

 

Heating oil is also insanely cheap currently. I'm loving it compared to the winter of 2011 where the standard price was nearly 70p but -11 temperatures and lots of snow meant that the deliveries were totally screwed and our local place wanted £1.20/litre.

 

Need to work out the solar PV area here, but it's 'on top of one barn' and generates enough to make the house and workshop zero-consumption - actually generating more - during the day. Even on overcast days the consumption (without say, kettle or washing machine loads) is often < 300W.

[garbaldy]

 

Hahahaa BMW £45 per hour labour your having a laugh,

I called and was asked the age of the car to then be told £145 per hour.

[colnerov]

 Hi, I think the overwhelming issue is the matter of trust or lack of it between garages and customers. This is highlighted in the use of a camera on the mechanic, this is really nothing but a novelty and doesn't serve any real purpose because it's sent to and seen by someone who arguably has no idea what they are looking at or understand what is being done. Who here would want to wear a camera as they go about the job and have who knows who see how they do it? What would your opinion be of a company that would want you to do that? Customers warily approach garages with the dubious knowledge that garages earn fortunes by turning over their customers. Garages have do deal with this lack of trust as best they can and doesn't make it easy to trust the customer. They have to deal with putting customer supplied parts on, nothing wrong so far because it's less outlay for the garage, but if it's the wrong part or it's faulty and they can end up in dispute with the customer about who bears the cost of labour to remove and refit another part, whilst having a disabled vehicle on the premises. Or having a mum booking the car in first thing for an MOT and service, but she drops the kids at school and then does a bit of shopping and turns up at 10.30 and says "The clutch is slipping can you do that as well?". "Yes that will be a couple of days". "Oh, no, I need the car back to pick the kids up at 3.30". Whilst turnover can give the illusion of lots of money, profit is a small percentage of that. Being self-employed is not a road to fortune and glory, you're only likely to get a living and have all the cost and hassle of running a business.

 

 Colin