The Independent trade - unfairly hammered?

[Bren]

 

 

Ten years ago (before the financial crash) you had people waving credit cards in main stealers for work to be done on their on tick eurobox - these people would pay vast sums to have there cars worked on.

 

Fast forward ten years - I know people in the independent trade who will happily tell you how small the margins are yet Joe Public still complains about having to pay for work being done. People having work done then asking if they can pay weekly, people complaining about what the garage has paid for parts and they could have got them much cheaper ( it's called the mark up). If people generally looked after their stuff they would'nt have to go to quick quid to have their head gasket replaced.

 

I have a tongue in cheek pop at garages on here (pollen filters) but it must be horrendous trying to earn a small profit and keep everybody ( tax man, customers) happy.

 

My local garage charges £44 for an MOT but another garage I occasionally use charges £30 - the competition must be horrendous.

 

Does the small garage get a raw deal? I think they do.

[ruffgeezer]

Yes and no, some of them are complete shit, but we all get tarred with the same brush.

[The Moog]

There seems to be move to extremes when money is tight. People either go premium or cheap as possible. The middle ground is the hardest battle

 

 

When I used to work in marketing it was always clear when a recession was happening because the middle of the road products dropped in sales.

 

With mechanics it is also a hard thing because people don't see what goes into the jobs. They drop their car off. Then pick it up with a bill and the car pretty much looks the same.

 

That is why some garages take photos or have webcams so people can track what work their car is having done.

 

Plus daily mail/daytime BBC with everyone is out to scam you headlines creates a high level of fear

[panhard65]

Totally agree the little indepenents have a hard time trying to compete. I have lost so many customers over the last couple of years as they buy new cars and the dealer is offering such a good deal I can't blame them. I get so pissed off by sharks that undercut me and the customers who think I am ripping them off.

[taxi paul]

My local garage, have used him for ten years. Used to have about eight mechanics . He sub let the large frontage to car sales. The car sales went bust about a year ago and he has finally got a new tenant coming soon , a restaurant I think. In the time since the tenant left he has dropped to just himself and a couple of lads. I tend to leave my var with him and get it back when he has done the job. Everyone seems to want everything doing straight away these days. I know a couple of people who wouldn't wait for him and went to fast fit tyre places to have mechanical and servicing work done, cos they can do it straight away. Would you want a tyre fitter doing your service? No disrespect to tyre fitters but ones a mechanic and ones a tyre fitter.

[scaryoldcortina]

It's hard, and getting harder. I too have lost quite a few customers who have gone for the finance a new car deals and often lose work to either a main dealer who trades on fear of "back street" garages doing poor work and also to untrained monkeys who undercut me and then do a poor job. As an example, I looked at a customer's clio yesterday, it's snapped the cambelt. I passed his house today, there are two guys removing the engine in the street.... he didn't even ask me for a price.

 

Insurance is getting more expensive, fuel costs are up, scrap is down. Selling the odd car to help break even is fraught with consumer protection liability to the point where it just isn't worth it any more, and proper disposal of waste is expensive too.

 

I'm about done tbh, if it doesn't get better I'm going to be looking for another job.

[Cavcraft]

Just like selling second hand stuff (for everyone) the morons who watch Bargain Hunt think they can price down everything. If I owned a car repair garage and someone baulked at the cost of service items, they definitely wouldn't be coming back as I'd just tell them FRO.

 

 

 

Edit: has a lot of the work been lost because of people who now lease a new car every three years then give it back and get another?

[scaryoldcortina]

^ Yes, that's exactly where it has gone. People who used to drive a 5-10 year old car now lease a new one, and people with older cars only get stuff fixed when it fails a MoT or fails to proceed and then it's a lowest bidder/least cost exercise.

[richardmorris]

It's tough all round I'm sure. Last full service and parts and mot fee for the 2cv was £150. Not much room for profit there. Mind you, it will need welding next year which will keep them in mugs of tea for a while.

 

Edit... I have never, ever complained about a bill I've had. If ever there's been an unexpected issue I've had a phone call from them before they go ahead. Usually they're more conservative than i am and just want to change bits that have failed, whereas I'd rathe that they did everything in one hit to save time.

 

My current discussion with them is about the oil pressure sender on the merc. I think it's on the way out, and they say to see how it goes. I've seem how it goes and I want a new one. At £50 it's not the end of the world if it makes me more relaxed.

[PiperCub]

It's amazing how many people are lured into the new-lease-car scam - wow, no bills for x years. Yes but try adding up how much you are spending over the period of the lease, plus what amount you'd have to pay to buy the car outright at the end (has anyone ever actually done this?) so you'll end up buying another and staying on the conveyor belt. It's like renting an expensive new house when you could buy a cheaper older one - wasted cash.

Pitch this against an older car that even if you don't repair yourself, farming most out to a half decent local indie isn't going to be remotely as expensive (if it threatens a big bill - bin it and buy another cheapy).

 

There are always decent outfits locally, the clue generally is that they seldom advertise, they don't need to, word of mouth is all. Sadly they aren't helped by idiot mouthbreathers who know nothing (generally!) and can't appreciate what mechanicing is all about, they want a superb service for little money so the indies get squeezed out of business.

As others have said, the culture/attitude of something for nothing, bargain chasing, low-balling is merely speeding a race to the bottom as the good guys out there will just get pissed off and say 'Fuck this shit, I'm quitting for a job in B&Q etc' and another one bites the dust, leaving the cheapo cowboys standing. 

 

Also, is it just me or has anyone noticed the many people have no particular problem with awful corperate whores like Starbucks, Tesco etc making huge profits yet if a garage tried to turn a profit then it's terrible, shouldn't be allowed, they must be ripping folk off. Yes, there are crap ones out there but the decent indies must be truly sick of this, I know I would be.

[richardmorris]

I think it's because most people don't have direct experience of how a business makes money. Basically you Need to charge 3x raw costs to the customer to make anything.

[sierraman]

All these leasing deals and 0% finance deals will go down the pan shortly when interest rates rise. In addition people will have much less to spend on Citroen DS5's when their mortgage is rocketing past 5%

[michael1703]

I buy from eurocarparts/gsf/tps/group auto etc then add 20% on

 

So that's £10 mark up for £50 of parts

 

But... On a few occasions I've put a reg number into euros website and the joe public price is the same that they charge motor traders.

 

So, in the instance that they can get it cheaper is true.

 

In the old days, you couldn't go on eBay or eurocarparts etc and the price was the price

[panhard65]

One of the problems is my customer base is mostly older people who know how to look after stuff. The younger generations seem to get sucked into the main dealer trap or just never bother to have work done until it fails the mot (which they think is a full service) The older ones have the money for buying new cars so they do and just go to the dealer for the first 3 years of free servicing, either that or they give up driving. It is getting harder and harder to make a living in this trade but unfortunatly it's all I know and I still actually enjoy it most of the time.

[nacho man]

Whenever I use independents, they always seem to be busy. So I think they would be raking it in.

 

I love seeing how much people/company's make and how much costs.

 

Would love to know how much the average independent earns.

 

That's not a question for panhard/two smoke/scary cortina and the others that own garages by the way.

[Cavcraft]

If you don't ever maintain or service your car, it's going to go wrong in style. You take it to a garage to repair it and moan because the cam belt snapped/and or the engine blew up, so the bill is obviously going to be high. That's why the scrappage scheme worked and people lease new cars. Because they're fucking lazy and because they're fucking stupid.

I bet (like a lot of Mobility cars) some of these three year old cars are absolutely minging inside/out.

[Timewaster]

Are they unfairly hammered?

75% of them, yes.

 

Customers that blatantly take the piss expecting jobs done for next to nothing at the drop of a hat and then taking 6 months to pay.

 

Rent, rates, council taxes, environmental charges, Vosa and the Hse all over you like a rash. Providing workplace pensions, paternity pay, advertising scammers, pikeys nicking your scrap, warranty work replacing the chineese shit that you bought from ECP at the same price as the punter can buy it, long hours, working weekends, on call 24/7, Prs demanding money because you listen to Ken Bruce, quoting for jobs you never get,people slagging you off on Facebook because you failed their KAs mot on rot when it was fine last year, having to upgrade your diagnostics constantly to keep up with new cars, training apprentices who piss off either to the main dealer / your competitors or starts up on his own in a unit down the road...

 

and so on and so on...

 

The other 25%?

 

Chancers, self taught and clueless.

[MarvinsMom]

the clutch needs looking at on the mini, its a '97 MPi, i think it needs a slave cylinder though it may need everything dong, and can i find anywhere able to fix or who wants to do the job?

 

can i fook as like...

 

the usual places round home just don't want to know. 

 

one spot said as much when i said it was a mini.

 

if they cannot be bothered then i will take my business elsewhere. i had been getting odds and sods done at the local tyre spot who do servicing and the like too, but following the debacle with the brakes on the Metro, from now on its just tyres and exhausts that i will be going there for in future.

 

i think i may just try and sell the friggin mini on as it stands.

 

i also pay my bills on time and in full, and i don't begrudge a man earning a living. i don't complain just as long as the numbers on the bill match for the work done.

[sierraman]

Saying all this, only at a guess 25% of cars on my road are 3 year old or newer. A good proportion of those are also likely to be company cars. I must live in a deprived area!

[michael1703]

I take photos with my phone and text them to customers as well as showing them the broken bits

[twosmoke300]

It's not easy running a small garage but I started out on my own nearly three years ago and have been flat out since . I have started to employ another tech and it's still busy . I'm lucky in that my overheads are low but you just need to be honest and do a good job .

If I added up all the hours I do I would be well under minimum wage but it's all about building for the future .

I don't get too many bad customers because , apart from a sign at the local rugby , I don't advertise . Word of mouth is king but you only get that from doing things right .

Sometimes you have to take a hit or make a loss on a job for the greater good .

One thing I was told was that a customer soon forgets a big bill but never forgets a poor quality job .

[Jim Bell]

I put everything I can in with my local independant. Just like local Butchers, Bakers, Post Offices, if you dont use it, youll lose it.  I take almost all jobs in, Including stuff I should do myself (oil service etc), as the service is great, the price is great and theres great flexibility on both sides.  I'm happy to source ebay parts, hes happy to fit them when its quiet.  A good mechanic, like a good builder/plumber/sparky should be a long term relationship in my opinion.  Look after each other where possible and why would you ever need to go anywhere else?

 

I feel for folk like Scaryoldcortina, working their tits off, after a lifetime of training and experience, just for customers to go somewhere cheaper (or more expensive in the case of leasing). It must be soul crushing.

[hauserplenty]

Indies over here do rake it in.

But then they fork it out on overhead.

So the labor charges are between $90-125 an hour. Flat rate mechanics get $20-50, but only for "book time", i.e. if the book says 8 hours to R/R a heater core, and it takes 10 hours, all he gets is 8. If he figures out a way to do the job in 4 hours though, he still makes 8 hours' pay at whatever the flag rate is.

I got into the trade 10 years ago, and am still turning drain plugs and lug nuts all day for peanuts. Not because I'm under qualified, but because the overhead for these shops is so high they can't (or won't) take a chance on me, an unproven commodity.

So I am reduced to fixing my own car, and fixing other people's cars in the street or even the parking lot of an auto parts store.

 

p.s. I remember when people used to work on cars in the streets doing heavy line work with oil and coolant everywhere...in the early 80's it was still common.

[cort16]

There's a company called c it now that's in a lot of main dealers now. They do a video showing the work required and why along with an itemised Work list . The video goes out in a link and the punter can approve the work after watching the video. Sounds sensible to me.

 

Car sales are a mine field if you're a business. You can't sell spares or repairs , youre getting under cut by road side traders who don't pay vat, tax or legally need to give any kind of warranty . On top of that all finance and warranty companies are trying to fuck you over , the general public think you're scum and the consolidation of the smaller groups into big groups like ac and vertu mean the supply of trade vehicles has dried up.

Sounds like hard work.

[gordonbennet]

Glad i'm not doing it any more, i did my share of kerbside cowboying in years gone by when things were simpler and like to think i did a good job rather than the cheapest one, my customers trusted me to get them quality parts and do some proper maintenance and i did, not sure i could cope with the mongs that are increasingly the general public now.

The public want top quality work with good quality parts yet cos they see cheap shit rubbish on the internet they think that's what the indy who fits genuine or serious quality should be charging.

They haven't a clue how much modern diagnostic equipment and keeping up with the changes costs, they probably think that £15 code reader is what the competent indy uses too to diagnose everything from an airbag on a 10 year old Jag to an ABS fault on a 4 year old Lexus.

 

We use an old school specialist indy for the Merc, it costs what it costs, i have absolute faith in Albert Lock and he's never done me wrong, some jobs are cheap and easy and some jobs are a bastard and bloody time consuming, it is what it is.

 

We've found a nice and busy family indy in Kettering and we've used them now a few times as have both daughters and have found them trustworthy and not looking for work, they impressed youngest daughter as she was convinced her Civic had a suspension problem....her driving is that problem...they went right through the car and cos they could find nothing wrong refused to charge her, she was brought up not to take advantage and how to be a welcome customer so fetched em a crate of good beers for their trouble.

 

The problem now is that we have an internet savvy generation of car owners who think they know everything and in reality absolutely bugger all, they tell you modern cars don't rust and other such crap, bloody obvious they've never stuck their head underneath.

They think its all Watchdog and other idiotic sensationalist bollocks, where every bugger who gets his hands dirty is a rogue trader, and unfortunately indies get tarred with the same brush as fast fit joints.

 

My son and his wife are unusual in their circle in that they don't lease a new car for £199/299 a month every three years, he uses an indy workshop owned by a mate he went to school with, not for cheap rates particularly but he trusts the place to do a decent job, and he's realistic that their cars which arn't 900/1600cc shopping trolleys cost what they do to maintain correctly, their friends run this boring new shit for 3 years during which time they might need one oil change then hand it back.

[UltraWomble]

I have a man in a  barn independent. 

 

Nice bloke not the cheapest but does bloody good work. He must be OK because he often has to turn new customers away.

 

An MOT and full service on the C8 costs about £400, and I'll pay it willingly knowing that if it fucks up and FTP then Tony will fit me in and get me going toot suite. And yes, he does the pollen filter.

[richardmorris]

As to motability cars my grandfather's is due to be replaced next august. It's just completed 2000 miles- in two years! It's a Megane with sat nav and ac etc. He's Now saying that the seat isn't as comfortable as it used to and should he get them to replace it. The issue that he's stopped eating since my grandmother died in May seems to have passed him by.

[HH-R]

I have ABSOLUTELY no luck with independent garages. I've been through just about every one in a five mile radius and they either say they don't know what the problem is, I get the car back with the same fault after being relieved of money, or get it back with a different problem completely.

 

I'd love to find a little place that I could say is great but no, I'm being being a knob either - I just want faults fixed in exchange for money.

[Angry Sheep]

Is it just me who finds the majority of independent garages unwelcoming at best, and often bloody rude? I know I sound like a big girl's blouse, but when I visit a garage I usually found I'm talked down to, generally treated as an inconvenience and there's usually mutterings of 'oh we'll fit you in next week'.

 

It's a minor thing and probably no indication of how good they are, but I think I'd be more willing to pay someone to work on my car if I got a cheery 'hello' and they made at least a bit of effort to pretend they wanted my business. I'm currently wanting some bodywork done on the Metro and have around £500 set aside to get it done - it's a big outlay for me and I'd like someone to talk through what I wanted and show a little enthusiasm rather than pretending they were doing me a favour. I went to one place who outright said they were too busy, but then my boss turned up in his Porsche and they couldn't do enough for him.

 

Having said that, a good mate of mine does admin shit and works front of house at a specialist garage. He's wasted as he really knows his stuff (but lacks any paper qualifications to be a mechanic), but he can also be a miserable bastard and I don't think I'd want him representing my business.

 

I think I've just proved my point invalid. Maybe I should stick to main dealers 

[scaryoldcortina]

It would help a lot if you needed to qualify/certify to be a car mechanic the way gas fitters and electricians have to, I mean where is the difference? They are all skilled trades in which some errors can endanger life. Anyone at all is allowed to charge money to repair (for example) brake lines, but the same untrained individual would be looking at jail time if he attempted to repair a gas pipe.

 

I'm not suggesting that home and DIY mechanics should be banned, just that if you are going to charge you should be qualified. Same goes for the sods that call themselves "diagnostic technicians" because they bought a snap on solus on ebay and had their astravan signwritten.

 

 

twosmoke - give it another 10 years and you will be so sick of making less money than the girl on the tills at tesco it just isn't funny.