Vectra help

[wuvvum]

As you may have seen from the News 24 thread, I bought a Vectra C yesterday.

 

 

It's a 2.2 DTI LS, which I bought largely because it was cheap.  I drove it back from Cheltenham yesterday, and it did indeed drive all the way.

 

The problem is that it went into limp mode twice.  Once when climbing a hill out of Cheltenham, the other after stopping for fuel in Oxford.  Switching off and restarting didn't help.  It'd drive in limp mode for a short while, then just cut out.  The first time it did this I rolled onto a petrol station forcourt, sat there for a minute thinking "what the fuck have I bought?", then turned the key again and the engine fired up, the spanner light went out and it then ran fine all the way to Oxford.

 

The issue at Oxford was a bit more of a pain.  It cut out several times, invariably on busy roundabouts, it'd sometimes refuse to restart and sometimes restart but only for a couple of seconds.  After a while I noticed that the temp gauge was reading just over half, as opposed to the 80 degrees it had been reading most of the time - if memory serves it was also reading slightly higher than normal when it did it in Cheltenham.  So I got it running again then sat there with the heater on flat out, and sure enough when the temperature got down to about 90 the spanner light went out and the engine picked up, and was fine all the way home.

 

My problem now is to find out what's causing it.  Being a pre-common-rail diesel, my code reader won't talk to it, and most of the threads I've found on Vauxhall fora have been cars going into limp mode under hard acceleration - which mine doesn't do, as once I was within walking distance of home I tried redlining it in second and third and it didn't bat an eyelid.  Also, everyone else was saying that switching off and restarting had cured their problems - that didn't work with mine.

 

So, any ideas (other than all Vauxhalls being you-know-what) gratefully listened to...

[cort16]

I think cavcraft had similar woes with his vectra. Can I ask why when you have 2 Mondeo diesels? Are they not grim enough.

[Bren]

EGR?

[bigstraight6]

EGR?

Could well be, my Volvo S60 D5 was giving me problems with going into limp home mode a few years back and that turned out to be a clagged up EGR valve....

[twosmoke300]

Need to get it code read , egr doesn't usually make these cut out . It sounds like the electronics on the pump tbh

[twosmoke300]

Or possibly a crank sensor

[Cavcraft]

Never got to the bottom of the problem with mine (refused to start after a journey sometimes) but could yours be related to the coolant temperature sensor? I only ask because you mentioned when the engine temp changed it effected it. Failing that is there a fuel flow sensor or filter that could be causing the problem?

[Bren]

Vectra C forum may point you in the right direction.

[Pillock]

The only thing I found during a Google (which I'll admit you've probably done already, this being the usual first step and all) is that the crank pulley is made of metal, with rubber around the edge, and then a metal gulley bonded to the outside of that where the belt sits.

 

Rubber ceases to want to be stuck to metal, inner pulley keeps turning, outer part of pulley stops and all hell breaks loose due to the alternator, water pump and PAS pump all being driven off it. One guy claimed it stopped his car working but nobody could figure out why on VxON

[wuvvum]

Can I ask why when you have 2 Mondeo diesels? Are they not grim enough.

I only have one Mondeo diesel now - I sold the silver one.  Thus there was no longer enough grimness in my life.  Plus it was cheap.

[wuvvum]

Would a more expensive OBD2 reader than mine be able to communicate with the car, or would I need to take it to a Vauxhall dealer to get the codes read?

 

I did read about crank pulley issues, but I didn't have any problems with the PAS or the battery charging so assumed it wasn't that.  Could be a temp sensor problem, but I'm not sure why that would cause the car to cut out rather than just stay in limp mode - although from the two times it's happened (admittedly probably not a scientifically represenatative sample) it does seem to be temp related.  I'm hoping it's not the pump electronics as that would render the car scrap (the cheapest used pump on eBay is more than I paid for the car, and then I'd have to get it coded) - I didn't think the later DTIs were too bad for pump issues though.

 

I'm going to try running it to work and back for a few days to see what happens.

[406V6]

Could be that the temperature of the engine affects whatever sensor is causing the problem rather than the temperature sensor being at fault.

[Rusty_Rocket]

If you're happy to splash £20 and have a laptop with a reasonably good battery, your best bet would be to get Opcom from ebay.  That will get you the interface, lead and the 'China clone' software which will read & clear fault codes, reset settings, actuate switches/ sensors etc.

I'd happily plug your car into my setup but I think you're miles away from me!

 

Edit- try this- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2014-Car-Auto-Diagnostic-Tool-for-for-Opel-Op-com-V1-45-Scanner-/251661802112?hash=item3a98365a80:g:1AwAAOSwRLZUKRsn

[3VOM]

I have a Signum with I think the same engine. I tend to agree than it isn't EGR valve as that just sticks and puts you in limp mode. Therefore you are on to crank or temp sensor or fuel stuff. Mine hadn't had the fuel filter changed for ages but that didn't seemed to affect the engine much. I really think a code read is needed or you will be replacing parts for no benefit. Also, this is the engine with the sensitive Bosch injector pump I think (~ £380?), but I also think it is the 2.2 petrol that has the metal rubber crank pulley issue, not the diesel.

Have a read on the Vxon site.

[wuvvum]

Well that's that theory disproved then.  I've just been out in the car and it went into limp mode before it'd even got fully up to temperature. 

 

Arseflaps.  Looks like I might have to invest in one of those Opcom gadgets then.  And a new battery for my laptop...

[wuvvum]

Why does limp mode have to be so limpy on these anyway?  The Vel Shatis used to go into limp mode regularly, but it was still useable and would (eventually) roll along at 60-65.  The Vectra struggles to hit 30 on the flat, and will barely move at all on any kind of hill.

[Ghosty]

Could be worse, limp in mum's old auto Polo was about 15-20.

[Cavcraft]

wuvvum, on 19 Oct 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Why does limp mode have to be so limpy on these anyway?  The Vel Shatis used to go into limp mode regularly, but it was still useable and would (eventually) roll along at 60-65.  The Vectra struggles to hit 30 on the flat, and will barely move at all on any kind of hill.

 

 

When my first 1.9 one did it, it was awful. I basically just didn't even bother with the throttle (it did nothing) so you just sort of let the car steam itself slowly forward then gather momentum to a ridiculous point where it felt it wouldn't actually stop, but of course did, then the momentum took forever to build up. I'd go to work down the lanes to avoid the main road, but at the end of the lane was a junction to the main road and it was hit and miss if you had to stop, as pulling out again was dangerous.

[srad34]

Could be worse, limp in mum's old auto Polo was about 15-20.

 

Crikey, not so much of a limp, more like a pathetic amble......

[Bren]

When the EGR gunged up on my 1.9 the car refused to start.

 

A tap with a rubber mallet freed it up enough for it start.

 

I was surprised that this method was not in the owners handbook.

[wuvvum]

Well the old heap died tonight, on the way to see a mate.  Went into limp mode, although bizarrely it didn't suddenly lose all power like it normally does - it was still rolling along at 50-55.  Then after a mile or so it died, as it has several times before.  Except this time it wouldn't restart, except for a brief cough after maybe 20 seconds of cranking - and eventually it stopped doing even that.

 

Called the AA, who sent a contractor out.  He had a play under the bonnet and ascertained that there was no diesel getting to the injectors, so either a blocked fuel filter or a fecked fuel pump.  He plugged his code reader in (a rather more sophisticated bit of kit than mine) and although it appeared to communicate with the car fine, it showed no faults, which I thought was odd - although my first Movano (also a 2.2 DTI) also showed no faults when code read, despite the EML being on.

 

He did reckon though that if it was the pump it would have shown up on his reader, and would also have put the EML on, so he was guessing at a blocked filter.  I do tend to take the diagnoses of recovery contractors with a bit of a pinch of salt though, as a couple of them have got it completely wrong in the past.  Having said that, it's worth a try spending a few quid on a new filter - as it's not common rail it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get primed and running again, should it?  (assuming the fuel pump isn't fecked of course).

 

The recovery chap also reckoned that pumps for these are normally plug and play and don't need to be coded to the car, so a 2nd hand pump might be a viable option if the pump has indeed died - which seems to contradict what I've read elsewhere.  Probably a moot point anyway, as even a second hand pump is a few hundred quid, which is a few hundred quid more than is worth spending on a delapidated Vectra.

[HH-R]

My Dad's 2.2 diseasel did similar things, though when the codes were read it reported just about everything between the numberplates as broken.

 

Not very helpful, but he could never get to the bottom of it and got shot. It's still on the road so someone must have fixed it!

[twosmoke300]

Pumps need to be virginised before you can start the engine . If you buy a recon one it will be done but otherwise you need to take it to a bosch agent with kts and the lead to plug into the pump module .

 

With no codes it sounds like something else . These are really prone to leak off pipes and injector seals . The leak off pipes dont leak externally due to being under vacuum when starting . Check them carefully . Also when you pull the fuel filter out if its black then it means the injector seals are leaking oil into the injector return system.

[3VOM]

 Having said that, it's worth a try spending a few quid on a new filter - as it's not common rail it shouldn't be too much of a problem to get primed and running again, should it?  (assuming the fuel pump isn't fecked of course).

 

There isn't a fuel pump, it's all done by the injector pump (fooled me for a bit that). Officially you should pump the fuel round the circuit with a Vx special tool. Unofficially, everyone says it should restart after a couple of attempts. Suggestions include filling the fuel filter bowl with fuel when reassembling.

Also, as twosmoke300 says, the leak off return? pipes are rubber and known to fail. Also, but I'd expect a code, these engines are known for leaky rubber connectors on the control pipework, the thin 6mm? plastic pipework and its rubber connectors.

Be careful putting the fuel filter back together, it has a fiddly rubber seal. I got it wrong and spent ages trying to start it with an air leak on the filter, so it didn't.

[garethj]

While most people throw their hands up and say modern cars are shit with their sensors on everything, it's often the old crap that fails and is usually cheapest to sort.

 

I'd pretend it's a 1985 car and get in with the filter to see if that sorts it.

[purplebargeken]

Has to be worth trying the filter first. Hopefully that will be straightforward.

 

If that doesn't work I have a tidy Mondeo..........

[wuvvum]

Thanks Ken, but I also have a tidy(ish) Mondeo - although that may be going soon.  If all else fails I've got the Carina E to fall back on...

 

Diesel filter arrived in the post yesterday, day off work today, and it's not currently pissing down with rain, so I'm going to give this a whirl.

[cort16]

I know you're the shite master but I dunno how you can be bothered with something like this even if it was cheap. I'd be living it up in my nice reliable Carina E, while stashing some cash away for some more interesting purchases.

[omegod]

If it's the same engine as the Omega 2.2 dti then the pumps don't need coding, bit of an urban myth

[wuvvum]

Well this is interesting*.

 

Replaced the fuel filter, filled the filter housing with diesel as suggested, and with a bit of faffing about and assistance from the Mondeo and a pair of jump leads it eventually fired up.  Left it idling for about 20 minutes and then it suddenly cut out - no warning, no spluttering, nowt - just died.  Checked the dash and the spanner light was showing, so it'd obviously gone into limp mode again.  It restarted straight away though, and after idling for another 15 minutes or so it cleared itself and started running properly.

 

So it looks like I'm back to Square 1 again - although Square 1 is better than where I was yesterday, so I'll take it for now.  There's still obviously something wrong with it though - although the fact that it's now running suggests that the fuel filter was at least part of the problem.

 

Strange.