The most underestimated shite of all times

[Bear]

Vote for the E39 as a good car, but I think it's universally recognised as one of BMW's best ever cars (even if they do have electrics that would make an Italian car of the '70s ashamed and rust to match).

[Junkman]

What.

On earth.

Is a BMW E39 ????????

 

I mean, there is E392 in my black forest ham.

[fred]

Loads come to mind but for me the Venerable FD Cool as Hell Ventora - Uber cool massively underrated car

 

 

[Asimo]

The Gamma has always been desired and it has always been feared. Maybe now, the desire will outweigh the fear.

Desired the Gamma might be / have been but I don't think it is underestimated.

 

It was desired , new as it is now, for style, handling and for rarity, but they were so laughably badly made few sold and even fewer made it much past 5 years. A perfect coupe makes a good ornament perhaps, but I have never seen one that looked ok close up.

 

Which is a shame 'cos I loved driving mine, but it was epically crap in ways which were designed / built into it and as such an example of the worst practices of Italian car makers just as Junkman says that Imperial is an example of the best efforts of Detroit.

[Taff]

 

Sub-Sprint Dolomites/Toledos. Sort of cheating 'cause all cars of this sort of age are recognised as "classics" but I find they tend to be looked down on as BL crap when as an owner of three of the bastarding things I find them to be fantastic.

 

I think they sold pretty well initially, offering a compact Escort/Viva sized saloon without the austerity, now-a-days they seem fairly forgotten. Escorts are mega money, Avengers are heading the same way, Vivas are rising in value as most of them have dissolved and Allegros are so shit they've become ironically cool. The Dolly/Tolly is incredibly undervalued considering what you get for your money. The car in general looks fairly upright and uninspiring (later cars got festooned with tack on door trims and plastic hubcaps and the square headlight models look quite dowdy, most cars are turd brown) but is actually great fun to drive, even the 1300 model despite it's tiny power output is amusing and very comfortable and the 1850 will easily keep up with modern traffic on the motorway.

They aren't really any less reliable than any other 1970s cars, the engines do about 100-130k between rebuilds if well maintained and service parts are cheap, spares in general are easy to find and lots of bodywork is reproduced by the owners club. 1500 engines tend to suffer premature bottom end wear and slant-4s like to leak water from the water pump and stupid thermostat bypass tube thing but most stuff is an easy fix. 

 

You get: 

Styling - Boxy, upright, 1960s Italian styling. It's dignified.

A commanding seating position - You sit high in the car and look down at lower class people. Just like one of those new fangled SUVs, Triumph were ahead of the game.

Luxurious interior appointments - Heated rear screen as STANDARD in 1976. REAL WOOD DASH LIKE A ROLLER. Painted metal in the cabin, are you having a laugh? This is a TRIUMPH, man.

A usable boot space - Fits up to TWO dead hookers.

The most comfortable rear seat in the world - Friends say it would be good for having sex on but I drive a Triumph Dolomite so I wouldn't know.

Handling prowess - Dolomites are fun, you can throw them around corners with ease and confidence, take wet roundabouts sideways and do doughnuts in snowy carparks. They're also bloody narrow (same width as a K11 Micra) so when you meet a tractor coming the other way during a spirited B-road blast you can scrape past it and won't be horribly killed to death.

Nostalgia - The smell of petrol and oil when starting on a cold morning, burning hot/freezing cold vinyl seats, 4 forwards gears, MW/LW radio, ride quality that doesn't shatter bones.

Value - Have fun finding a Mk2 Scrote on the road and MOT'd for a grand...

 

What you don't get:

Recognition at car shows - People walk past the Dolomites like they invisible. Occasionally you hear somebody say "is that a Sprint?", then they look at the badges and bugger off towards the Capris looking disappointed. The only people who will talk to you are people who have previously owned Triumph Dolomites, they all loved them, fact. 

Respect from anybody - Come home with a Mk2 Escort and people spaff their pants. Dolomite ownership comes hand in hand with British Leyland jokes and regular reminders that your car is cheap, old and not a Ford or VW Beetle and is therefore crap.

Functional heaters in OHV cars - They're shit.

An investment - Escorts are so valuable you can't lose money. A Dolomite will kick you in balls and steal your wallet, frequently, and values will remain low.

 

To wrap up. Do you want to buy a classic car for under £2k that isn't an utter pig of a thing? Room for the whole family*? Fun to drive but returning over 35mpg? Buy a Dolomite, quick. Before people realise they are actually quite alright and prices rocket...

 

*Standard 1970s family, 2.5 kids at most and no fatties.

 

gets my vote

 

I'm still not buying one, though

[pshome]

Tagora, period.

[John F]

barrett, on 24 Sept 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:barrett, on 24 Sept 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Haven't you sort of just proven Junkman's point, though?

 

No. For a car to be 'underestimated' surely it needs to have been familiar to the wider motoring public, i.e. sold a few units outside of america?

[D Spares & Tyres]

I bought a Yugo 513 from the auctions for £10 + commision, so £35

 

Fantastic little car, it would outdrag an XR2 with its revvy fiat engine and twin choke Weber

 

I would love another now

[twosmoke300]

Tagora, period.

 

What size tampon would you need for that !

[Lacquer Peel]

Audi A4 2.0 TDI S-line.

 

Nissan Vanettes are under-rated, I was driving a new Sprinter at work while I owned my Vanette, the Nissan was much nicer to drive with better handling, brakes, ride, seats, steering, low down torque and fuel consumption.

The Sprinter was quieter and a bit quicker.

[cms206]

Kia Pride.

[Parky]

Renault 5 mk2. Always overlooked by the buyers of funkier Uno's and 205's but was as good as either. Light, economical, cheap to fix, reliable (ok bit tinny but what wasn't back then?)

 

We'll miss them when they are all gone

[twosmoke300]

An Audi fucking s line ! A 2.0 , oil pump shitting , tdi !

 

Get out !

[Barry Cade]

An Audi fucking s line ! A 2.0 , oil pump shitting , tdi !

 

Get out !

You sir, have the cynicism of someone who has been spannering professionlly for many a year. Keep calm and carry on.

[twosmoke300]

I thank you !

[sierraman]

Renault Safrane. These were lovely wobbly of beds of a car, absolutely worthless but lovely to sit in.

[twosmoke300]

A first class waft mobile !

[Lacquer Peel]

An Audi fucking s line ! A 2.0 , oil pump shitting , tdi !

 

Get out !

 

I wasn't being serious, maybe I should have put a little smiley face on the end.

 

Rover 825 diesel.

Rapid on boost, comfortable, nearly maintenance-free* engine, many shite qualities but a good car. They have disappeared off the face of the earth sadly.

[Bear]

Anyone offered the Carisma GDi up?

[warren t claim]

If the Chrysler Imperial was anything special they would if badged it as a De Soto.

[Junkman]

The Imperials were special, the DeSotos weren't. The DeSotos were merely badge engineered Chryslers.

That the difference between Chryslers and Imperials (there is no such thing as a Chrysler Imperial) is often still not understood to this day manifests how underrated the Imperials are.

[Cavcraft]

1990-something Berlingo 1.9 diesel.

[Junkman]

1980s GM 3.8 V6 FWD saloons.

 

 

They come in many different flavours, but save for some trim and soft parts inside, they are always the same car and have the same hardware.

Parts supply is still plentiful and they are surprisingly economical. They are tough beasts that can sustain pretty much any abuse you throw at them.

Distributorless ignition and electronic fuel injection from the mid-Eighties onwards makes those examples virtually maintenance free.

They are also surprisingly swift, still provide the typical American quality of ride and are fairly rust resistant.

Underrated mainly because of the naff styling and retired doctor image, they are in fact darn good cars by any standard.

They make bona fide WBoDs to boot.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

26 year old design, massive spec from new, perfect driving position, 150bhp on tap, massive boot, space for five people with seven foot long legs and sublime handling.

The shite bit - they rot like buggery, so plenty to enable the owner continue to bond* with their Cavalier.

[John F]

wafers, on 26 Sept 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

26 year old design, massive spec from new, perfect driving position, 150bhp on tap, massive boot, space for five people with seven foot long legs and sublime handling.

The shite bit - they rot like buggery, so plenty to enable the owner continue to bond* with their Cavalier.

 

The post-1993 Cavs were galvanised and much more resistant to tinworm.

 

But Cavs aren't underestimated, lots of people know how ace they are. In fact, the C20XE-engined ones are a bit overestimated IMO, they had their problems...

[Dick Cheeseburger]

The post-1993 Cavs were galvanised and much more resistant to tinworm.

 

But Cavs aren't underestimated, lots of people know how ace they are. In fact, the C20XE-engined ones are a bit overestimated IMO, they had their problems...

Cavs were highly regarded in their day, but now they're old rotboxes, there doesn't seem to be much love for them at all, much like most old Vauxhalls. I saw a really genuine, rot free example of a Cav Turbo for sale recently, and the owner was struggling to sell at £2600ish. Real Q car, comparable to a Saph Cosworth, but completely different value trend. Just a few years back the value would have been much more on a par with the Cossie. Real shame - they're damn good cars, but just don't really have much of a following any more.

[Six-cylinder]

You can't have a list like this without including the Citroen ZX.

 

This ZX is a TD Memphis Limited Edition, I had it new as a company car while working for a Citroen dealer.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

In they heyday, Imperials were a different car to the Chryslers - indeed one of their problems from a financial viewpoint is that they didn't share enough parts with Chrysler's volume cars.

 

Imperials were often at the forefront of innovation; they were a more technically advanced car than a Cadillac or Lincoln -  or most other cars for that matter, whether from America or Europe. Such niceities as all-round disc brakes were adopted very early by Imperial - along with a padded dash and first for proper air conditioning and a transistor radio. Quite apart from these comfort orientated innovations, Imperials were also very highly regarded for the way they drove.  They do deserve their place here.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

26 year old design, massive spec from new, perfect driving position, 150bhp on tap, massive boot, space for five people with seven foot long legs and sublime handling.

The shite bit - they rot like buggery, so plenty to enable the owner continue to bond* with their Cavalier.

 

 

The strange thing is, I do remember this series of Cavalier being really well regarded at the time - I seem to remember people who had the choice preferring them to a Sierra. They seem oddly forgotten now. Maybe the modernity they showed in the late '80s makes them insufficiently 'classic looking' now? I always thought they were a bit too Germanic, but that's just me.

[Pete-M]

Another Pininfarina belter; virtually unknown outside of France.

Brilliant ride quality, great handling, very well equipped for the 70s. Only two things wrong with them, the driving position is abysmal and the PRV V6 is truly horrible. If Peugeot had built the 604 with straight seat runners and the V8 it was designed for it would have been one of the best cars ever built. Until it rusted away.