Effing 4x4s

[forddeliveryboy]

So we've had some snow. Only about 3 or 4 inches but this is a valley so roads go up and down. Last night there was a 4x4 sliding backwards down a hill, meaning I had to stop and retreat to avoid being hit (slowly) by two and a half tons of cold steel. Fortunately there wasn't anyone behind me. General cursing of people without any skill/worn tyres/4x4 drivers in general. Had to pass a Focus slithering badly on the next hill, but at least it wasn't another massive 4x4, so you could see past it and there was adequate room to pass without losing too much speed.

 

I assumed both vehicles had been caught short by the snow and were making their way back to their urban comfort zone, most living out here can't afford massive 4x4s (unless they're farmers spending the benefits cheque) and are well prepared for winter. But no - on my way down into the local town earlier this morning there was another chuffing leviathon with all four wheels gently spinning, blocking the same hill. It wasn't the same one which was still trying, either, but someone with a second home, panicking there was more snow on the way. I stopped and suggested they let me past. "Well you'll never get up here if we can't". The look on their faces as I set off past them was worth the delay.

 

How I wish the blooming BBC would refrain its reporters from repeating that well-known phrase, "we're only able to reach this snow-bound, isolated village with the use of a large four wheel drive". Perhaps something along the lines of, "we've only managed to get here because of our narrow snow tyres".

[barefoot]

 "Well you'll never get up here if we can't"  

 

What were you driving?

[plasticvandan]

i drive a ford ranger pickup 4x4 thing at work,and its shit in off road/snow situations.

best thing i had for snow and ice was a Reliant Regal with a crate full of bricks in the boot often used to get held up by those blasted 4 wheelers!

[dollywobbler]

Having been rescued by a 4x4 when my 4x2 was going absolutely nowhere, I admit they do have their place. The problem is, modern 4x4s have tyres that are simply too wide and rely on computer trickery to try and keep moving - which often can't cope with ice. Plus owners tend to charge around thinking they're invincible, right up until the point where they get stuck. Then they desperately try finding some fault to blame other than their own stupidity.

 

Our first winter in Wales, the BX and 2CV couldn't get off our driveway without assistance. The BX got a tug from the Land Rover I owned at the time, which barely noticed either the snow or the fact it was towing over a ton of BX, while the 2CV got a shove from the very capable Mrs DW. Mind you, the CX dragged itself off the driveway all by itself. Cheap M&S tyres and auto transmission FTW!

[John F]

Yep, you can't blame the vehicles for the fact that some of them are bought by clueless idiots.

[dollywobbler]

I'll let Plasticvandan off. I'm sure an unladen 4x4 pick up is still pretty interesting in the white stuff, especially as they're rear-wheel drive until you select all-wheel drive. I bet it isn't as interesting as a Sherpa pick-up though!

[sierraman]

When it snowed near me, I was sick of people driving round in these 'lifestyle' 4wds, in road tyres charging around looking smug. Right up until they get stuck or lose control...

[NorfolkNWeigh]

About 5 years ago, a mate with a small recovery firm that subcontracted the occasional job for the RAC called me at 5 o'clock one snowy morning ' Grab a shovel and bit of string ,you're doing Specialist 4x4 Recoveries at £250 a pop!'

My first job was in Tring ,Hertfordshire. Prime Home Counties 4x4 country . There was about 6" of snow frozen hard, my rusty old Disco on Colways AT's didn't even notice it. The first job was a Fiat Stilo 'stuck' on a drive by the snow pushed aside by the snowplough, I drove it straight out in less time than it took the old dear to make me a coffee- kerching! £125(my share) in 10 minutes. I felt guilty it was so easy so followed her to church in case she got stuck.

I did another 4 similar jobs that morning, only having to tow one of them - an A4 with bald tyres. Easier money than selling crack. Amazing how nervous people are when confronted by a bit of fresh snow.

All was going well until I got a call for a BMW stuck on a verge near Beaconsfield, when I got there it was an X5 with feckin great 22" wheels with what must have been 305 section tyres. The road was pretty clear but X5 boy had tried to go round a stuck car that people were helping to push. They were long gone and I bet they were pissing themselves at the beached Beamer.

The driver was a stereotype rich wanker,ranting about BMW,The RAC,the Council,Old Bill( he'd phoned 999 and they told him to piss off) everyone. He'd obviously just sat there with his foot to the floor till the wheels weren't touching the ground.

I was a bit wary of him blaming me for any damage so didn't just try and snatch it at first , I faffed about with a shovel and ummed and ahhed a bit first so it looked as if it was properly stuck. I attached a strap to the towbar ,told Rich Wanker to gently feather the throttle and started to tow it.... Nothing happened,it felt as if it weighed about 20 tons, I shouted to RW to give it a bit more, he unleashed the full 350 odd bhp,showering the back of my Disco with mud and stones! The twat was in Drive not Reverse ! Cunt!

When I pointed this out to him, apparently it was my fault for not making it clear. As he slithered off with steam coming off all 4 wheels,I hoped he'd get stuck again.

The point of this waffle? Don't blame the car,the tyres or the weather. Blame people's stupidity and gullibility when it comes to 4x4 marketing.

[forddeliveryboy]

What were you driving?

 

An old Audi with £29 Winter-Tact snow tyres on all round. I can cantilever a couple of plastic cubies full of water over the front if more traction is needed. Worked well when I had to tow someone out of a drive and they wouldn't sit on the bonnet for me.

 

Totally agree with all the comments about it being the drivers not the vehicles, but a 4x4 is not something you want to hit you when careering down a hill out of control. Four wheel drive's great for towing in slipperly conditions, but no better on the level and barely better downhill. If it comes with a massive high body with agricultural suspension then everything's worse bar the ability to acclerate.

 

I'd say the original Range Rover was the best 4x4 in snow - soft, long travel springs and a total lack of anti-roll bars gave it an almost 2cv-like ability to carry speed over snowy, bumpy roads. Suspension designed to keep school-run Mums happy tends to mean much above 40mph in most 4x4s things start to get a bit iffy. Nothing worse than being restricted to a grinding dawdle on snowy, open, empty roads when you have a fair distance to cover, because your car/leviathon's body follows every bump.

[DS20]

The best vehicles I have ever driven in snow and ice have been the current and previous mk1 Range Rovers, with M+S tyres.  They have been completely brilliant at starting, stopping, turning, and not behaving unpredictably.  Just amazing.  A close second is my 900, which also has M+S tyres in the colder months; it's just not quite as good at starting on a steep uphill slope, or towing other cars out of trouble - though it is far better than it might look, being a 25-year-old convertible.  

 

Any car on wide, low-profile tyres (usually those don't have a tread pattern that helps in snow and ice), whether it is a new X5 or a sporty Megane, will not help you to start, stop, or turn on snow or ice, no matter how clever the electronic traction aids, because the tyres are just not suitable.  It's a mistake to buy a four-wheel-drive anything with that type of tyre and expect it to do well in these conditions, because it won't.  

 

There, rant over  

[dollywobbler]

Certainly the worst aspect of snow is 4x4 smugness. "They hate us most of the year but love us when it's snowing." No, not really. Given how little it snows in this country (I could be eating those words tomorrow judging by the forecast) there is simply no point in driving around in a thirsty great 4x4 most of the year, when you can just stay at home on the occasional day when it snows. On which note, I'm nipping out to grab some supplies!

[Pete-M]

I absolutely adore Range Rovers. Brilliant things. The new one is the greatest vehicle ever built.

 

It's all to do with how you drive them.

[forddeliveryboy]

I'd say it's all to do with image and trying to tell people you're a rich bastard. How much more satisfying to use the £100k+ for something more worthwhile, using the change to enjoy an early 70s RR - with early 90s running gear.

 

The less I look like a footballer or EU minister on a visit to the offshore cheap labour region, the better.

 

 

 

 

[saucedoctor]

Saw a pikey spec X5 this morning utterly fail to get up our admittedly steep street with about 2 cm of snow. Roaring V8 and spinning wheels. Sound and fury signifying nothing.

 

A woman in a Hyundai Getz managed it no trouble. My X Type spins all 4 wheels if you give it too much shoe, but it moves forward O.K.

 

My mate left his RS4 at home today. With the greatest of affection and respect for him, he couldn't drive his finger up his arse anyway.

[HillmanImp]

The new one is the greatest vehicle ever built.

 

 

I really hate the new one. TBH, I have never driven an old one as a comparison but have to drive a new one for work sometimes and its shit. Its soo impossibly dull to drive I can't really see the point, I have driven more exciting Corollas.

 

It's also not as fast I thought it would be, the steering is vague and I keep knocking the tiptronic gears when indicating. Quite frankly all the extra electronic shizzle was pretty much not needed and probably slowed the car down. I am there in spirit but I feel like the car is almost driving itself. Plus I feel like the interior was tacky but they are more Jordan than Penelope Keith these days I suppose.

[brickwall]

I kept the 205 tyres on the rangie for this very reason - plenty of bite. Secondly, when folk buy one of these things they can hear what they can do and assume you just drive around like normal and all problems will be solved.

 

It's a very different driving style and if you practice you can get out of most situations. It's not a car. Most are fitted with highway tyres that negate all the abilities of the machine. If you use creep properly you will not fail to get going; power and torque have sod all to do with it.

 

At the end of the day ice is ice and if you don't know what you're doing you'll fail.

[barefoot]

Following on from this, but digressing a bit towards winter tyres...

 

In the good old days*, I always managed OK in snow & ice, but it has suddenly occurred to me that I was on cross plies and SR rated radials.

Over the years, things have got progressively worse and my 944 has ZR rated tyres, I was looking for a new pair for the front the other day

and came across a wording that I've never seen before, 'not suitable for snow & ice'.

I've had a car running on Winter tyres for the last four years & I simply wouldn't be without them any more. 

 

"it's the driver, not the car" - not always

 

I bogged the 944 down on the merest sprinkling of snow & a barely perceptible hill on someones driveway.

2nd gear & two blokes pushing barely shifted it & I thought I knew what I was doing.

I'd like to propose the 944 as THE worst car I have ever attempted to do anything with in the snow.

'It is sometimes the car & it's sometimes the tyres too"

[DS20]

Ma DS20's previous wheels, a 1994 E220 estate, was hopeless on snow or ice.  It went sideways rather than forwards, and if there was any camber on the road, the driver was stuffed.  Gutter / ditch, here we come.  I reckon the automatic gearbox and lack of weight over the back (driven) wheels really came together to wonderful* effect in that car.  

[dollywobbler]

Wide tyres wouldn't help the Merc. I once overtook an AMG 55SL thing on a snowy hill in my Peugeot 306. I had to have two attempts (the first one lacked momentum due to having to swerve around the Merc), but got there. 

 

Anyway, perhaps I'll just leave this here...

[twosmoke300]

Series 3 swb landy on 6.00 16 tyres . 2.25 na diesel so it hasn't got enough power to spin anyway. That's the tool for snow. Apart from the shit heater , no elbow room and solid suspension of course

[barefoot]

Re the spinning diso, is that just wrong tyres?

Or don't they have a diff lock?

Or something?

[Joey spud]

 

i've had this on winter tyres for 2 years now and not seen a sniff of the white stuff.

And to be fair with only 80 horse power i think it would probably be better anyway on its skinny 155 section m+s tyres than these 195's

[dollywobbler]

Re the spinning diso, is that just wrong tyres?

Or don't they have a diff lock?

Or something?

 

A combination of things. Fat tyres cause grip issues in the first place, but most Disco IIs don't have a diff lock - well they do, but Land Rover removed the linkage as they thought traction control would get through anything. But, the driver isn't allowing the traction control to cut in correctly. You can see it trying but just as it starts braking the spinning wheel, the driver eases off the power - which is the last thing you should do. With traction control, you need to keep the power on, so the wheels keep spinning and can be braked, sending the power to the wheel which hopefully has grip.

[Junkman]

I absolutely adore Range Rovers. Brilliant things. The new one is the greatest vehicle ever built.

 

"New" and "the greatest" is mutually exclusive. Period.

[dangerousdave]

the biggest problem with these 4x4,s that never go off road is a) the drier who hasn't the first clue about their car so don't know what to select and is wide low profile sport road tyres my range rover classic with all terrains on is no problems in snow and going downhill I know to use engine braking because mine does go off roading as well but saying that my Cortina is great in snow the worst car I have ever driven in snow s my dads citroen c3 Picasso with low profile tyres literally no grip at all

[MarvinsMom]

we had fun an games last night coming over the moor top from castleton to kirby moorside, in fairness to both the 75 and SWMBO' we did make it over the top. there was bugger all snow at home, but 4 miles up the road it got worse and worse. we made steady and slippery progress up to hutton-le-hole except for the nob head tailgating us in some aldi suv thing in full pimp or drug dealer spec wiv rimmzzz,. he was charging across,

 

i had hoped that we round have found him upside down in a field further up the road but sadly not.... wanker.....

[Lacquer Peel]

I drove a 4x4 in the snow recently through work, it was inept because it weighs over 3 tons and has a shit modern diesel with a peaky power delivery so you have to rev it like fuck and spin the wheels to get it going or it stalls in a dramatic fashion, the 4x4 system is selectable at speeds of up to 6kmh or something stupid like that, so you can barely swap between 2x4 and 4x4 on the fly. DAIMLER AG SHITE.

 

My parents had a Mitsubishi L200 4x4 for a while, it was more predictable to drive in RWD in the snow, 4x4 made for dangerous understeer.

 

Some modern AWD systems are pretty hopeless, check this video of a Honda CR-V sending 0.00005% of its power to the rear axle on a simple traction test.

[Felly Magic]

LOL at the Honda, no wonder they aren't doing so well these days when their products are shit

[twosmoke300]

The previous model crv had purely mechanical awd and works quite well . Makes some funny noises sometimes but a diff oil flush used to sort that. I can only assume they use a different system now as the old ones used to work when we tested them on the brake rollers. Or that test was sponsored by ford .

[Rusty_Rocket]

If that Ford thingy in the youtube vid wasn't a different colour, I'd genuinely not be able to notice the difference between those two cars*...