Bangernomics, when to give it up and what to buy?

[Shep Shepherd]

RWD Volvo 

[r.welfare]

Crikey, that 626 was a bargain.

 

Vince70 is talking about selling his low mileage 1.6 Audi A4 for £500, that would be a good buy.

[cort16]

The e46 is a dream compared to what came after .

[sierraman]

I rate the Mazda 626, all them cabbies can't be wrong.

[Ian_Fearn]

I wouldn't say a BX is a hard car to use as a daily hack. Mine is! Parts are pretty easy to come by still, you can still get parts for it from GSF and my local factors (Car Spares) can get anything else within a few days. Repairs are straight forward, pipes can be made and engines and gearboxes are shared with enough cars out there to keep me in supply for a while yet, albeit with gentle modification.

 

Rust is an issue but I suppose I'm blessed that I can weld things back together again but there's no complicated bits to form, just a few awkward access issues for things like the rear subframe mounts.

 

The thing that'll kill it will be trim and glass. I was taught in my early days of bus preservation to stockpile glass and unique fittings. This will start soon as they become harder to come by.

 

Lastly,don't be afraid to modify. So what if it isn't original? You're running it as a daily and cheap runner not entering it into a concourse show. Make it sound, make it safe but above all, make it work.

The nail in the coffin for me was when the hydraulic pump started to make a terrible racket. I searched for ages for a replacement. I had 3 spares in the garage all for non Turbo Diesels. When I finally got an expensive replacement it was fine for a couple of weeks and then the bearings started making a racket again. I had all the flaring tools and tons of spares but seemingly never the right sodding bits! Basic service items were no bother but as you say trim stuff etc was hard to find. I used to regularly get calls from people in the CCC (I wrote the columns for a few years) asked for help finding bits.

 

I was without a heater for 6 months because the rheostat thing packed up and couldn't get another.

 

I loved BXs and never thought I'd be without one. I still have BX seats in my Defender but times had moved on for me. I wanted to properly look after it but at the same time I needed a proper daily hack.

 

BXs are no longer Bangernomics in my mind, they're a classic to be enjoyed by devoted enthusiasts. To be honest, I think Xantias aren't far behind but not sure they have the same following.

[dollywobbler]

Oh I dunno. Having attended a few CCC X Rallies, Xantias have a surprisingly large following. Certainly far more of them turned up than BXs, with far more of them in rather lovely condition... While many Xants are on the dull side, the V6s and Activas get the fans frothing. A few have now even combined the two. A mouth-watering prospect.

[Junkman]

So. What have we got?

 

A 20 year old French car, and a plethora of "issues" that do a sterling job challenging the "first world problems" thread.

 

Yes, an old French car will annoy you with numerous nuisances, which are in the end immaterial.

On the other hand, they go 5,000,000 million miles between oil changes and sustain any abuse you throw at them.

I can live with a door lock not working, a door card dissolving, and a window needing help to go all the way up, once you made the mistake of lowering it.

I can live with lacker lacur luquir clearcoat peel.

I can live with pogweasel pink.

 

What I can't live with, is having Adolf Hitler as a co-pilot.

What I can't live with, is the hype about the Japanesish rubbish, which amounts to nothing more than shiny shit from China without spare parts availability.

 

Do.

Not.

Believe.

That.

Japanese.

Tosh.

Is.

Any.

Better.

 

There is nothing really wrong with Japanese chod, but it isn't any superior. However, it lacks any originality and it's as exciting as having the measles without access to penicillin.

Even if it is 30 years old, it's oddly soulless. I should rather say Blues-less, maybe.

You say "safety". Well, listen to me, son. When your number is up, you go. It doesn't bloody matter how many airbags you surround yourself or your mini-clan with.

You'll be nuked at will by the fascist "ruling elite" anyway. Just get off my fucking nerves with this "safety" horseshit, would you now.

People die predominantly at home. Where is the legal requirement to wear a seat belt and crash helmet in your house?

 

Oh, and buy a Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon, if you want something akin to a Tonka toy for big boys. Because they start, where the Frogs left off.

 

Apart from that, I cannot possibly eat as much as I want to puke about this "oh, which shite I shall buy" horseshit.

Buy a Bristol 405. In beige. For fuck's bloody sake.

 

I'm not responsible.

[Bren]

The trouble with jap vehicles is when they shit themselves the price of parts is enough to bring on a stroke.

I had to get a crank pulley for our galant - £180 + vat.

Lots of stuff is main stealer only.

[Mr Lobster]

Agreed on the price of Jap parts. Some of the bits I've had from Mazda are surprisingly expensive.

 

If you want something cheapish, post 2000 thats hopefully reliable and ok to live with then how about SEAT Leon / Toledo?

 

Well impressed with mine, it just keeps going and going and going. Petrol turbo manages typically around 35mpg, is fast, has a massive boot and is more or less perfect. Hasn't let me down in almost 70k either. 

[skattrd]

Pug 405 would prob be top of my list if I was you, then a Volvo 850 or Merc W202. My sister hijacked my Merc C250 as her Migraine Scenic is slightly borked and she is loving the Merc, they're not massive and the estates have a decent boot, the saloons aren't so spacious.

 

Failing that there is always VAG, which I know get s a mixed response around here. personally though, I think my 227k Bora (non pd dizzle) is gr9, and a mate of mine sold his similar vintage Bora with 270k on it and it was still going strong.

 

For a car to use and forget, I'd plump for a late 90s A4 1.8 non turbo manual. Fairly simple, safe for the kids, pretty rot free, quite economical and happy to plod up and down motorways as doing the jog to Lidl.

Just service it every now and again and forget.

 

Apart from potential CCM issues I would concur

 

If you want something cheapish, post 2000 thats hopefully reliable and ok to live with then how about SEAT Leon / Toledo?

 

Well impressed with mine, it just keeps going and going and going. Petrol turbo manages typically around 35mpg, is fast, has a massive boot and is more or less perfect. Hasn't let me down in almost 70k either. 

 

I agree on this as well.

 

I'd seriously look at the Octavia, as well. Petrol motors aren't too complicated and if you do like diesel the early pre-pd ones are old school and love the veg. If you're not doing mega miles though a petrol is a better shout. My dizzler Boring takes a while to warm up in winter (6-7 miles) whereas petrols are up to temp much quicker.

[Ian_Fearn]

I'd seriously look at the Octavia, as well. Petrol motors aren't too complicated and if you do like diesel the early pre-pd ones are old school and love the veg. If you're not doing mega miles though a petrol is a better shout. My dizzler Boring takes a while to warm up in winter (6-7 miles) whereas petrols are up to temp much quicker.

 

Worryingly sensible advice.......

 

In order to redress the balance, how about a Renault Scenic 1.9DCi Rx4?

 

4x4 'lifestyle' 'premium' 'high-end'

[reanimation-films]

Good advice from the majority!

 

Thing is the last 7 years worth of cars found me and have been shitetastic. I've done self repairs, put up with odd faults and behaviour from them, this way of life is all I've ever known, I'm a true autoshiter/no skooler, old car enthusiast, even retro car fan and enthusiast. I'm losing confidence on this xantia now for me and my family but I will admit its been brilliant, a Scrappage scheme survivor. Just thinking about what to possibly replace it with possible soon before it becomes a true money pit/liability

Thing is I've had next to no interest in normal modern or even modern to me cars with a view to me owning one soon. I was shocked last night looking at what I believed were really new cars to find they were actually 11 years old and in a good price bracket. It's a sharp relearning curve. I've not even bought a shite car. Or project for many years now. The Rover 600's look great value if a bit pub landlord. The Japanese stuff does seem soulless, unless sporty, I did have a look at Seat toledo and old shape Ibiza, unfashionable but fairly good seems a good tactic, completely open minded on this. Volvo solutions were winning last night but I did go to bed after getting quotes for sportyshites XSI and looking at Ford Pumas! Time for sleep then! Haha.

[chaseracer]

...how about SEAT Leon / Toledo?

 

It's like a Golf...

 

[Cavcraft]

I like to try and keep cars going as long as possible, I'm even going to pay £350 to have my half-arsed 306 back on the road. However...sometimes you have to concede defeat and admit that spending shit loads on an ordinary car isn't really viable. The day my Vectra shits it's DMF, gearbox or fuel pump is going to be a sad day, but it'll see the car off I reckon

[doobietoo]

Never buy anything that is worth less than its scrap value..... eg. VW MK3 cabriolet bought for £450 ran for a year and spent nothing on then broken, sold the roof for £50 the leather interior for £100 lights £100 (they were the special twin headlight jobbies) hood pumps/ mechanism £50 window winders £50 and various other bits and bobs £75 weighed in the shell for £110 so made £85 for a years motoring. 

 My next car will be a rover 200/25 in 1.4 variety as with the right spec they are worth £400+ for parts and weigh in and with a years ticket are going for under £300. So you can run it for a year and make a profit. If the OMGHGF occurs you just buy another one...Done this my entire life and almost never get caught out ie. lose money.

Also dont take any notice of make model or where it was built, all that is important is what it costs to buy and how much the parts +scrap value is. I have had my French Automatic Safrane for over a year now and its cost me two tyres and a backbox for the mot.... If/when it dies or needs more than its scrap value spending on it, it will be broken and then scrapped and i will get more than i paid for it back... You always get free or better still earn money through bangernomics motoring if you do your research.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Must say it sounds here like you have been a skilled player of the bangernomics game for some years already with the Xantia (which sounds like the perfect Bangernomics motor) but you've had a run of bad luck with the fuel system on it lately, spending several hundred quid with a 'specialist' who sounds like he's struggling with a super-basic fuel system. Whats going on when you've shelled out for a pump overhaul then ha says 'yrah you must need some new injectors?' Sounds like this is your problem, I bet the guy knows how to plug a diagnostic gizmo in and swap a EGR valve but your oldschool mechanical setup might be out of his comfort zone. Spending big money (400 is big money to me) with specialists to fix a NA Xantia diesel sounds wrong to me and leading you out of the bangernomics game via ever increasing circles.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I think you need to find a garage that looks after taxis and get them to investigate, a few years back there were billions of 405 minicabs being looked after at low cost by the types of geezer you need.

[reanimation-films]

Thanks, the part of my story is that my trusted mechanics have become hard to get recently. My reliable MOT man and garage in Oldham has been tricky to get, turns out they are scaling back the operation or moving premises so are only taking MOT work at the mo. I had a new Citroen specialist too in Burnley who also was impossible to get with my last few issues. Oldham garage sent me to diesel injection specialists in Stockport, told them there was a visable leak and it was running rough. So that was the first bill. Still ran rough really but leak fixed, disappointing. Then I changed fuel filter following HBOL. No better. So OH suggested getting neighbours garage to look for other issues. They checked things but it led back to the pump and more leaks maybe. Decided to try Stockport place again, and here we are with a recon pump. It is better does start better and not too worrying when warmed up, but still not right. Rubbish season for it too. Mechanic rather than shop owner came for a drive and seemed fairly Knowledgable and gave some advice but another lump of money on injectors isn't ideal when other things like clutch or cable could pop or suspension and other stuff. My Guess is the pressure and gunk pushing back from injectors helped the pump get gummed up and those old seals popped. I'm going to keep running some millers cleaner through as i have a big bottle and maybe buy some forte cleaner instead but I think another wedge of cash feels too far, I think they do too!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Can you get another set of used injectors for like £4 and swap em yourself just to see what happens? Must admit I've never changed any XUD injectors so i dont know if theres one of these stories about needing to blast them out of the head with TNT or whatever like some moderns. Maybe you could buy a set of used injectors (I bet someone on here has a set you could have for buttons), get them flow checked and untrasonlcally cleaned (shouldnt cost more than £50-60) and luzz them in yourself, that feels more shite tastic to me.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

http://www.injectortune.co.uk/Injector_Cleaning.html

 

Postal service, £17 per injector

[reanimation-films]

Thanks Mr B useful alternative i will consider?

[dugong]

Mark, I have two words for you.

 

Those words are SCTSH_ANDY. He knows those engines backwards.

 

All of you telling him to replace a Xantia with a BX...whaaaaaaat?

[plasticvandan]

Bangernomics is entirely dependent on the owners ability to fix it (or at the very least be prepared to learn and have a go) late 80s early 90s are really the newest you can go before sealed for life and electronics come into play,a no no for the bangernomic.

My mk2 polo estate (breadvan in pineapple speak) cost me £350 and had been off the road for 12 yrs.normally I wouldn't buy a daily with no not,but its condition was far,far better than cars double the price so I took a chance.actual things needed for not(excluding things I bought in a while I'm there attitude) cost maybe £250. I had to change shocks,tyres and service items,hoses etc. Things I would do on any new purchase anyway. I expect that it should give me many years reliable motoring on a shoestring,with the bonus that the things seem to be appreciating.

I don't really subscribe to the run it into the ground and replace theory,it usually ends up costing as much as keeping one car up together,but with added breakdowns,Recovery's and heartache.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Bangernomics is entirely dependent on the owners ability to fix it (or at the very least be prepared to learn and have a go) late 80s early 90s are really the newest you can go before sealed for life and electronics come into play,a no no for the bangernomic.

My mk2 polo estate (breadvan in pineapple speak) cost me £350 and had been off the road for 12 yrs.normally I wouldn't buy a daily with no not,but its condition was far,far better than cars double the price so I took a chance.actual things needed for not(excluding things I bought in a while I'm there attitude) cost maybe £250. I had to change shocks,tyres and service items,hoses etc. Things I would do on any new purchase anyway. I expect that it should give me many years reliable motoring on a shoestring,with the bonus that the things seem to be appreciating.

I don't really subscribe to the run it into the ground and replace theory,it usually ends up costing as much as keeping one car up together,but with added breakdowns,Recovery's and heartache.

 

 

Thou speaketh the truth.

 

To do bangernomics you need some mechanical ability, a toolkit and a willingness to fix stuff. You also need a car where there are millions in scrapyards and 150 shitters on Ebay to break for parts.

I don't feel like I've had value from a £500 car until I've had it for five years.

[The Moog]

There is an old school bloke in Accrington -northwest Citroen and Peugeot. Took my 405 in for him to have a look up when I decided to get rear axle fixed.

 

Up on ramps and let me have a poke about. He made loads of good suggestions all to save money. Didn't charge me owt.

 

He has got a c5 that he has remapped. I phoned him up and took it in the same day. Cant recommend highly enough.

 

Bonus is that there is a race prep specialist next door that had some tasty motors in as well.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

He sounds ideal

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Mark, I have two words for you.Those words are SCTSH_ANDY. He knows those engines backwards.All of you telling him to replace a Xantia with a BX...whaaaaaaat?

Dug man. Usually you're telling us that SCTSH has fucked something up by driving it like a maniac, or has got half-way through a repair then left his shite blocking your doorway for ever and a day!!! He sounds like a liability to me

[dugong]

Dug man. Usually you're telling us that SCTSH has fucked something up by driving it like a maniac, or has got half-way through a repair then left his shite blocking your doorway for ever and a day!!! He sounds like a liability to me

It's been a while since any of that, b0l. A lot's happened since then.

 

Most of the retarded squabbles over space were because of BISCQUIT_MAN next door or SCTSH'S Saabs exploding for no given reason (sometimes harsh treatment). Granted, his cars are still all over the place and, erm.....I've talked myself out of this argument, haven't I?

 

I drive him mental with my strange habits so it's all relative.

He does know PSA shit though.

 

Accrington man was a bit patronising with my C4 and tried to claim I was running it on the wrong oil.

[Inspector Morose]

Check your fuel return to the tank. A blocked, or partially blocked one of those will lead to blown seals, black smoke and general shit running.

 

A BX to replace a Xantia? Not unless you're a fuckin' massochist. (Steps forward - hi)

[hairnet]

Buy yaris 1.0 niaow