What is too slow then?

[Six-cylinder]

Anything with a 0 - 60 of over 10 secs is too slow for me. So why do I like my Citroen Visa Diesel so much!

[John F]

Old people with or without hats on... women, usually, that are more interested in chatting to their passengers than paying attention to the traffic... buses... horses... cyclists... taxis... etc.

[Uncle Jimmy]

If you're obeying the speed limits in our glorious land you will find just about any car is sufficient. Pre war cars can be difficult to live with, pulling out onto the race tracks that roundabouts have become.

I do like a car with some power but I am very careful where I use it. I had an amusing situation in the Ovlov a while ago where a gentleman refused to allow me to pass him on a dual carriageway, most people do assume old car- ergo very slow, especially the BMW/Audi crowd.

[doobietoo]

Mate of mine had a Merc W115 200D N/A diesel 55hp and nearly a ton and a half to lug around. I drove it once.That was stupidly slow. If there was another car in sight you didnt dare pull out, unbelievably it had over 150000 miles on the clock. I pitied the poor bastard who put that much mileage on it.

[Mike D]

I had a 1.2 Corsa, (the newest shape one) as a hire car in Majorca the other year and it was diabolical, so so sluggish, admittedly it was 4 up with luggage but it would barely accelerate. The Corsa C that Ms. D used to have was also a 1.2, but a twinport and that went quite well.

[Junkman]

pulling out onto the race tracks that roundabouts have become.

 

Yeah, pulling out onto Brands Hatch circuit during a race is much easier.

[spike60]

For 10 years I had a Transit Mk2 coachbuilt camper, 20 feet long, whisker under 10 feet high and just under 3200kg empty on our work weighbridge. This was fitted with an early Di 2.5 with 75bhp and yes, it was slow. I used it all over Britain and Europe, we always got there, it just took a little longer. Drive according to what you're in, don't have stupid expectations. I like high performance cars but wouldn't try sleep in a Caterham 7!

[xtriple]

I don't think any car is 'too slow' in itself, it's all about how you drive 'em! I used to love 2cvs and they ain't the speediest things on the road (though all of mine were the 'posh' 602 cc jobs!) it's all about momentum. I do agree though that old cars with carbs and points always felt 'willing' regardless of how much 'oomph' they actually had. Moderns on the other hand seem to be built to frustrate: overweight, silly gear ratios to help them pass emissions tests, stupid power deliveries that are ECU controlled to encourage you to change up early to save fuel (really to help pass emissions tests) and people that nowadays, have no bloody idea how to drive - witness how many bloody morons get into top gear at about 30 and the poor bloody car stays in that gear until another dead stop. Woman the other day stalled her car coming round the corner I live on, it was a Korean SUV thing, diesel and manual and it was obviously in way too high a gear as it just chugged itself to death... and died right outside my flat, in the middle of the road... and the stupid cow couldn't restart it properly either!

 

Having said all that, the Jazz I had the other day was guilty of all the things I listed, it set off well (CVT) and then went to sleep at about 25-30 and was as flat as a fart. All the while, this lovely light was on the dash saying: ECON which I believe is a lean burn thing and made it even worse. I didn't feel happy to rev the tits off it as it was new and not mine, but it didn't seem to want to rev anyway.

 

Oh, and 250 Superdreams are only slow in comparison to 'proper' bikes!   

[Bobthebeard]

Had to drop off the modern today at the local tyre place. As it needed to be left there for a couple of hours we took both cars. As Mrs Beard needed a car later, and had never driven the Prelude, just to make sure she was ok with it I suggested she drove it whilst I followed in the Accord.

Bit of a revelation. Whilst the Accord is obviously more powerful (2.4 iVtec), I did actually find keeping up with her slightly difficult! Not in a straight line obviously, but she nipped through roundabouts and was away from junctions in a very sprightly manner. Mrs Beard is by no means a fast driver.

When I mentioned to her that she was 'pressing on a bit' she had no idea what I meant! Suspect the lardiness of modern cars is set against the nippy agility of lighter, older cars. Neither car is actually 'slow' as such, but I was amazed by the difference.

[John F]

xtriple, on 05 Dec 2014 - 4:35 PM, said:xtriple, on 05 Dec 2014 - 4:35 PM, said:

Oh, and 250 Superdreams are only slow in comparison to 'proper' bikes! 

 

Yeah, but they're the size of 'proper' bikes so their reluctance to accelerate is all the more disappointing.

 

Although if you don't mind a long wait, they are capable of putting 90 mph on the clock (according to the Kent traffic policeman that gave me a stern talking to about it in 1990 or thereabouts, once he'd got over his surprise that a 250N was capable of such heady velocities).

[xtriple]

I always quite liked wet dreams - the 250 was okay but the 400 was better. Never liked one enough to actually own one (if it's below 600cc it's got to be 2 stroke!) until about ten years ago when a druggy bastard was desperate for his next fix and flogged a tidy one to my mate at the garage for £50. I collected it later that day for £55 and a pasty and rode it home. It really was a sweet little thing and felt like  a 'proper' bike sizewise just with a couple of cylinders missing!

 

Later, when I was cleaning it up for the quick resale I'd always intended, I opened the topbox and it was FULL of needles and syringes! Needless to say the complete topbox came off and was wrapped in gaffer tape so it cou;dn't be opened before going in the bin!

[Cavcraft]

The 250N wasn't too bad in my experience, in fact they were perfect for town and bypass commuting. 

 

Slow? The Chevette 1256cc automatic I had was slow, BUT...it was sort of nice slow and it honestly made me a more relaxed driver, which isn't a bad thing. Most things could get past you in it and I found I was rarely going quicker than anything else, so overtaking didn't really need to happen. It wasn't dangerously slow (though I don't pull out on people anyhow) and would do 70 (very) eventually I think.

 

I'd also suggest if you knowingly drive a slow car, you only have yourself to blame if you cannot read the road ahead, or be aware of potential dangers. Also, if you buy a slow car and are a rush arse driver, that's your own fault.

[hauserplenty]

Ban low-performance cars, not high-performance drivers!

 

One chug per telegraph pole is too slow.

 

F'rinstance: The most gutless wonder I ever drove was a 2.2L 4cyl GMC Slonoma. It had a mushmatic for extra dread. I had to constantly shift it to keep it from going into 3rd gear at 23mph--even in second gear it was dangerous, but in third at that speed it might as well have been in neutral. Climbing long grades with a speed limit of 55 in second gear at 45 was no fun either. People in my part of the world tend to drive 10mph over the limit regardless, so there was often a whole swamp-full of 'gaters after me; that is if they hadn't already passed me like I was standing still. On mountain roads I eventually came to know where all the turnouts were. Not that I...ever used them of course.

Of course, it was an extra-cab truck, so all this was true before I had to bolt a ladder rack on it and carry 800lbs. or so. Hello, second gear. It's been too long...

 

I would be hesitant to drive any 1500cc motor; an 1800 I consider a bare minimum, and a 2500cc V6 is too small for a 6, but about right for a 4. GM's 3.1/3.4/3.8's are all made from the same block, but I prefer the 3800.

A 350 works out to 5700cc, which is another minimum for V8's. Any less and power-to-weight seems to suffer; more and the OMGMPG does. 4.6 is about optimal for FWD moderns but I don't think it's right for RWD platforms. Seems a bit too slow.

 

454's are a real hoot to drive. But I can't imagine breaking single-digits with one. You'd have to drive it like a "Merry" Oldmansmobile Gutless and you'd still only get 10MPG.

I would have bought it but it was too rusty...

[Lacquer Peel]

I drive a 1500kg van with a 75bhp diesel, it's fine. Vauxhall drivers still get in my way.

[Bobthebeard]

Wasn't an automatic version of the Honda Superdream available? Suspect that was slow..

The 250N I had as a teenager did seem rapid though. Jeans and bomber jacket flapping in the wind... Youth eh?

[bub2006]

Cb400a with a two speed town and highway selector. A friend has one in the garage. Apparently highway is ok for obviously bypass and motorways but ok for town if you don't want to get anywhere quick. Town is ideal for quick pull off but wont go much more than 50. I would love a go on it.

[AlabamaShrimp]

My Fiesta 950 is supposed to be 45bhp. Over the years they've almost all gone but it's far from slow. I have to change gear alot and it's top speed is about 80 and it takes ages to get there but looking and thinking ahead are what's needed. Doing that it only ever feels slowing when you're trying to over take on the motorway, so I don't really bother.

 

As other have said it's more about the drivers not paying attention or driving in the wrong gear that makes moderns seem slow.

[bub2006]

Apparently my robin was seen as a slow car. Mine was far from it. Much to the surprise of a few sales reps off the lights.

[brickwall]

The internet is awash with threads about how brakes don't last and they put it down to poor quality materials and manufacturers skimping. It says a lot really.

Folk go on about engines and power and whatnot, but most don't know what they're really on about. Many will mod engines and suspension and all sots of garbage.

 

It's all in the gearbox and the right foot.

[quicksilver]

What's also dangerous is when someone ASSUMES your car is slow and acts accordingly.  I reckon people think Maestros are only capable of travelling at 15mph at all times given the number of times people pulled out in front of me at junctions even after judging the gap.  The Princess gets tailgated at the speed limit too, even if that's a national speed limit and I'm keeping pace with the traffic in front.  In fact, the only car I haven't had people behave like the car is going slower than it really is has to be the Xantia, which looks fairly modern.

 

Conclusion:  people are morons.

A very good point. Many drivers seem to automatically assume all old cars must be slow. When cruising at a steady 60 in the Mk1 Fiesta or Dolomite, drivers of moderns would be desperate to overtake at the earliest opportunity and take stupid risks to do so. Same road, same speed in the modern Corsa and everyone was happy to stay behind me. The ironic thing is the Corsa was one of those awful 1-litre 3-pot jobs so it was actually slower than the older two, not dangerously slow by any means but not as quick to accelerate as I would have liked.

[John F]

I rather liked my old 250 Superdream. Yes it was dog-slow in terms of acceleration, but it handled really well on Avons and was incredibly tough.

 

I bought it with 24,000 mles on the clock and knackered rear shocks for £125 and ran it whilst I was rebuilding my 650 Katana. Then I sold it to a courier for £300. After a year I bought it back off the courier for £150 with 55,000 miles on the clock, gave it a fresh MOT and sold it for £300 again. It still rode as good as it always had:-)

[Matt]

I reckon most 'normal' cars are perfectly adequate. The thing that I don't get is that lots of people can't deal with doing 55mph on a 60mph road so tear past at the first possible moment yet I'm forever stuck at red lights in town because people ahead can't get a bloody move on, too busy playing with their phones probably instead of being smart and watching the other lights/pedestrian crossing lights so you can be ready to set off as soon as possible.

[PhilA]

The concept of "slow" is something that is badly jilted here.

 

Having come from a 899cc Fiat Cinquecento.. I have a fair idea of what a "slow" car is- despite that the gearing in the Fiat was so comically short it would get up to 35 fairly quickly.

I have also driven very big, very heavy trucks. At 35 a rattly old Seddon-Atkinson with semi-auto 6-speed and a smoky old Rolls turbodiesel feels very fast, especially if you have to steer or brake the thing. It always felt like the Little Engine That Could. I can make forty! I CAN make forty! I.. can't, there's a hill..

 

Conversely, I drive my Dodge, which is 4100 lb (1860 kg) with 410 lb/ft of torque at 4000 RPM and 375 horses in the 5000's somewhere, it can be puttered around slowly or leave a big old #11 down the highway.. however, that is a lot to do with the gearing as my Silverado has the same size engine, about 230lb/ft of torque, 165hp and most of that is available from about 1600 RPM- at 60 mph in the Silverado I'm doing 1700 RPM, in the Dodge I'm doing 2200 RPM and in the Renault I'm at 3000. Each drives completely differently, as you'd expect. (Though not apples to apples I guess).

 

The Silverado is no slouch though but it just has a gentle constant push of torque up to about 4500 RPM, the Dodge has a variable cam that comes in at 4000 so screams all the way to the red without hesitation and the Renault has very flexible torque from about 1500 RPM through to about 5000 where it starts to feel strained.

I think that's part of the difference between the motors here and there- the availability of the torque. All the 4-pot cars I owned over the years in the UK were fairly flat, though the older cars had a more peaky delivery somewhere in the middle of the rev band, the Fiat felt flat as a pancake. I'll attest to the feeling of 70 mph with foot flat down and almost completely off making no difference other than decibel level and fuel economy.

At least in a slightly larger engined car with about the same net power output you'd get a slight lift of the front end and a throatier note, even if it didn't actually go much faster because it didn't have the power to overcome the wind drag.

 

No point being able to do that much work if you don't have the turning force to actually get you there.

 

That's why smaller, four-cylinder cars here are looked upon with scorn. They simply can't lug the weight that the Feds decided the cars needed in crash-resistance, coupled with smog laws meaning they had an almost flat power and torque curve past about 4500 RPM. Wind it up, drop a gear, it just screams loudly and continues at the same pace. Utterly miserable, slow, pathetic vehicles that earned a name to "slow", compared to a big torquey V8.

 

TL:DR- get a modern V8, some cars are slow but not as slow as their drivers

 

--Phil

[Pete-M]

I like my cars to have a reasonable amount of poke. 100 bhp per ton is a happy baseline to start with. Much less than that and I don't really see the point.

[wuvvum]

I think the only car I have driven that was genuinely too slow was the Ligier Ambra diesel.  Even pulling out of side roads in town was a fraught experience in that.  I've owned some properly old stuff - Vauxhall 10, Renault Novaquatre, even the hopeless Austin Ten would get from 0-30 quicker than the Ligier.

 

Out of town, there have been times when the lack of acceleration of a Peugeot-engined LDV convoy has been an issue - ditto with the Reliant Regal - but both were acceptable in 30mph zones.

[wuvvum]

Cb400a with a two speed town and highway selector. A friend has one in the garage. Apparently highway is ok for obviously bypass and motorways but ok for town if you don't want to get anywhere quick. Town is ideal for quick pull off but wont go much more than 50. I would love a go on it.

I've had two.  They're rather odd.  And they don't pull away quickly, even in low gear.  Interesting bit of kit though.

[Tayne]

The current model Vauxhall Astra.

We have one at work and it feels glacial even when driven brogue to axeminster.

Looking on Vauxhall's website it apparently has 100bhp (at 6k revs) and 130lbft of torque (at 4k revs). This might be ok had the engine any real desire to rev or if the car wasn't heavier than the moon (seriously, Vauxhall don't publish a kerb weight!).

 

My 2.25 diesel Land Rover had 60bhp at 4k revs and 103lbft at 1800rpm, owing to gearing it was all done at 63mph but it was never a rolling chicane.

[Inspector Morose]

Bristol SC4LK.

[Justin Case]

Bristol SC4LK.

I raise you a Bristol KS5LG, 38mph flat out and about 24 max in 3rd in the drag past the old Triumph factory in Meriden,  you may possibly know the bus

[Albert Ross]

Yeah.. Series Diesel LRs.. Mines a 109", and I run it laden. Empty, it's 1780kg... I tend to carry slightly under a ton. So let's say 2500kg. With an original 62 heavy horses... no mean feat to get it to anywhere near the NSL. I use my overdrive as a splitter. See, some of the more confused horses have wandered off, as previous owners have left a few gates open, or sold the fences. I reckon it has nearer 45 horses remaining. What I do get is moderns that baulk me, for instance the approach to an incline needs to be attacked in a steady manner. Not normally. Some dick in a Honda will overtake, and gently crawl back down to a speed just under where I need to be to climb without dropping 4 of my half-gears. Thus putting strain on my layshaft bearings etc. Cocks.