Huge yank shite - odd jobs.

[eddyramrod]

Yeah it would.  Ideally you need a car scout over there, who will pick out the honeys for you and take care of the US end of the shipping.  CV in post...

[alf892]

They sound like a decent firm but without wanting to teach egg sucking be careful.

 

I used to work at a forklift place that specialised in rebuilt Coventry Climax trucks. We had a foo king brilliant salesmen who sold three types of truck.

Serviced and repaired = steam clean and make it function. Change oil.

Rebuilt = As above but change oil filter. New tyres and load chains. Carry out load test. Repaint.

Reconditioned = Proper job. Rebuilt engine,steering, brakes, mast and repainted

 

Not sure on the order of the last two to be honest but you get the picture. The boss was a bit of a wide boy who was frequently in court chasing hapless punters for cash when they didn't get what they thought they had bought. He usually won.

 

Quite a lad........I remember him answering the phone one night just as we were closing....'no we still offer a 24hour service'.......'no we can't come tonight but will definitely be there within 24 hours from now

 

Anyway, I'm sure you get the picture!

[danthecapriman]

They sound like a decent firm but without wanting to teach egg sucking be careful.

I used to work at a forklift place that specialised in rebuilt Coventry Climax trucks. We had a foo king brilliant salesmen who sold three types of truck.

Serviced and repaired = steam clean and make it function. Change oil.

Rebuilt = As above but change oil filter. New tyres and load chains. Carry out load test. Repaint.

Reconditioned = Proper job. Rebuilt engine,steering, brakes, mast and repainted

Not sure on the order of the last two to be honest but you get the picture. The boss was a bit of a wide boy who was frequently in court chasing hapless punters for cash when they didn't get what they thought they had bought. He usually won.

Quite a lad........I remember him answering the phone one night just as we were closing....'no we still offer a 24hour service'.......'no we can't come tonight but will definitely be there within 24 hours from now

Anyway, I'm sure you get the picture!

Point taken.

I've given the go ahead for the work, just waiting for more details on the exact spec of a few things. Mainly how far to go regarding upping compression.

I'll be in touch with them again next week so I'll ask a bit more about the crank, bearings etc. At least then I'll know for sure. They really don't seem the type to do a crap job or rip people off, but it's best to check.

[nigel bickle]

Stage payments, regular, unannounced visits, constant phone calls, written & verbal requests for emailed photo updates every week or so, should soon tell you where this is going.

 

As a yank o'phile ( with 3 60s monsters tucked away) , I'm with Junkman, here. I would lift at least one head to check the valves and study the bores before commissioning experts that don't know the vehicle....

 

But I understand where you are coming from. I made the mistake of using too small a tractor to lift the 440 ci out of my 67 Riv, which nearly caused a lethal disaster., when it nearly toppled. Young & inexperienced, I learnt a lot from that one - when I blew the bottom out of my Mk10 on the M23 - I just sold it on. Too scary..

[purplebargeken]

My friend who had a Chevy V8 pick up and then a 40's lead sled left the car with a so called body guy with a good rep. He was ripped off royally and was still struggling to get bits back after 2 1/2 years. The engine went to another place who also fucked him about. Seems this is not unusual in the Yank scene or so I am led to believe. 

 

Apologies if this is not so. 

 

Excellent advice:

 

Stage payments, regular, unannounced visits, constant phone calls, written & verbal requests for emailed photo updates every week or so, should soon tell you where this is going.

[danthecapriman]

I have heard about this sort of bad behaviour in the yank scene over here.

The place doing the work aren't yank specific though. They do everything classic.

 

I will be on top of this though, and I would like some photos anyway. The place is less than 5 miles away from home too so I can easily go down there and pester them when I want to! I think for what this is going to cost me it's perfectly reasonable thing to do.

[Hawkeyethenoo]

Enjoy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Alb7RcRV0

[danthecapriman]

I did watch that AMC Pacer episode. It looked a hell of a lot better before the work was done though! I don't know what they were thinking with it!?

[purplebargeken]

^^ plot and lost spring to mind

[Parky]

Edd just seemed to be aiming to make is as unsellable as possible. Left a nice seventies colour and relatively standard interior there would have been margin in that.

 

But would that be entertainment? Nah

[hauserplenty]

I was thinking it could have been burnt valves due to unleaded gasoline, but if there is sludge in the engine it's best to have it rebuilt. No aluminum either; more trouble than it's worth. If you lot are running monkey piss petrol then the higher compression will be wasted anyway. Best to keep it as close to stock as possible, thus preserving the value. Once it's running right I think you'll find it can get out of its own way just fine.

 

Owing to the condition, the car may have been kept in a garage and rarely driven. Definitely worth the effort and can't wait for an update!

 

Do try and get us a shot of Eddy's grinning mug whilst he's driving it...good on yer wack!

[Junkman]

Just to get a few things straight that crept into this thread and annoy me no end.

 

- The car was made for unleaded fuel by the factory. Every post-1968 Yank is.

- Petrol in Europe is vastly superior to the camel piss they sell in USA. The lowest grade here is 95 Octane, 7 more than the highest grade there.

- I was suspicious from the beginning what with this pound shop carburetter bodged on it. It had been tinkered with already.

 

The overall condition of the car makes me believe that it was raped for its original engine (they are in high demand by the off-road folks) and substitued with a scrapyard cutout.

Unfortunately this is more common than people think it is and it's peculiar to FoMoCo 460s. Don't forget that these cars have literally no value in the US.

 

And please forget about all this hop up and modifying horseshit. The standard engine has more than sufficient power and a bunch of shade tree hot rodders just isn't smarter than an armada of graduate engineers employed by Ford. Also keep in mind that all this yank hop up stuff is designed for driving a car 1320 feet in a straight line in ideal weather and even doing that most of them struggle with.

 

I would like to have a go at the engine. Please bring it to me.

[hauserplenty]

Your mileage may vary.

[twosmoke300]

I've gotta agree with Junkman on this one . Leave it std!

[tooSavvy]

Ha! on the subject of 'have someone who cares [Junkman] do it rite', I was splattered with seagull doinns across the screen yesterday - when my 'bleachbottle' washers jetwashed the way clear I was reminded of A good job is worth doinn rite.

 

 

TS

[danthecapriman]

It's not been engine raped. The engine number matches that in the original documentation that came with the car.

All the things (like that carb) that have been tinkered with already were done to the car after it's lay up ended. Things were done or changed to replace worn out or damaged parts. The dizzy, fuel pump and lines, carb etc etc are all replacement items changed to get it working again. The last time this car was on the road in the US was 1995! It sat stored and unused until 2013ish when the guy I got it from got it and made it drivable again.

 

Also, the slightly bigger capacity but otherwise identical 460ci engine is the one to have and easier to find as far as engine raping goes. Mine is the earlier 429ci version which they stopped making in 1973, the same year as this car.

 

On the subject of mod's, I don't mind a bit here or there. As long as it's invisible! The engine will go back together and still wear all it's original parts - rocker covers, heads, even the air filter box will all remain standard. The only changes will be inside the engine. The pistons for example, will up compression slightly but the ones they are using are still from a variant of this engine, so could of been on these cars from new anyway depending on vehicle age and where it was supplied to new (emissions laws dependant). They aren't race or true performance components like you see on TV from the likes of GasMonkey garage etc etc. they are standard parts but just not the exact type fitted to this particular engine from new.

Basically, from opening the hood and having a look at the engine, you will not be able to tell anything has changed in much the same way you can pull any other engine from any other car apart and find oversize markings on pistons. This tells you it's been rebuilt but you can't tell until you strip it down.

 

I'm not a hot rodder or into modifying cars (though I have no problem with those who do - each to their own and all that!) but the fact is, this things worn out. A few little tweaks here and there for better reliability or increasing horsepower slightly are fine with me (more grunt is never a bad thing!?)

Btw, another mod I've already done is rip out the points and condenser, in favour of modern electronic ignition. Why? Because they are shit! They were problematic on old cars right from day one and now a modern (and invisible) modification is available to replace them then I see no problem with doing that. It makes the car more reliable and perform better than the old system ever could. And removes two fragile components from the mix when it comes to them failing (and fail they will!) so I won't be stood at the roadside getting pissed off.

 

I'm not having a pop at anyone btw! I just think maybe people have got the wrong end of the stick about what I'm having done here. And the extent of the work being done. After it's back together the only difference will be it'll be marginally quicker and pull slightly better. That is all.

Like I said, I'm not into hot rods, modding doing burn outs or drag runs and even if I was this car is not the car for doing that with!

It will still look the exact same as it already does now. So fear not, it'll be fine!

[hauserplenty]

It all sounds like the sort of thing a reputable shop would tell you, and you're on the right track with it anyhow. Good on yer, definitely a job worth doing right, as I (and others) have said earlier.

Windshield washers are good to have working, though...I think Ford used to cost-cut those back in the day...

I wish I could travel over 'dere to have a blag in it too...but of course the car would be familiar, but the roads wouldn't, so I think I'll just leave the driving to Eddy!

 

[Felly Magic]

Good luck getting this fettled, this car is all about wafting and tyre squeal at 12 mph, a few subtle mods, including to possibility of improved brakes wouldn't really go amiss, especially as nobody would even know, barring yourself

[xtriple]

That car is fucking gorgeous. I so wish I had somewhere off road to park and then I could have something interesting (Bentley... but still a V8!   ). Those old American V8s are so simple to work on and usually well built so a joy to do so, just heavy to pull around/out!

 

I think you are doing all the right stuff especially if the car is a 'keeper' but garages (specialists more so) tend to charge like wounded Rhino's when working on semi exotic (as in not a Ford Cortina !)  so I do not envy you the coming bill. Could you not run it this summer as is and then do it yourself over the winter?

 

As I understand it, parts are easy to come by in the USA and whenever I have dealing with the 'Septics' it has been an absolute pleasure - quick, cheap and easy.

[cort16]

It's your car and your money so do what want to get it how you want. Rebuild, Ls1, 1600 pinto , kubota cement mixer motor (okay not the last one). Good luck with it it looks awesome.

[danthecapriman]

That car is fucking gorgeous. I so wish I had somewhere off road to park and then I could have something interesting (Bentley... but still a V8!   ). Those old American V8s are so simple to work on and usually well built so a joy to do so, just heavy to pull around/out!

 

I think you are doing all the right stuff especially if the car is a 'keeper' but garages (specialists more so) tend to charge like wounded Rhino's when working on semi exotic (as in not a Ford Cortina !)  so I do not envy you the coming bill. Could you not run it this summer as is and then do it yourself over the winter?

 

As I understand it, parts are easy to come by in the USA and whenever I have dealing with the 'Septics' it has been an absolute pleasure - quick, cheap and easy.

Yeah, I can't say I'm looking forward to the bill! But I really really can't wait to get the car back!

I 'could' run it as is until winter. But the running problems are really getting through to me. It's a fantastic thing to drive but the engines poor running really do spoil the experience so now's as good a time as any to get it fixed. That and the MOT is up early in August, and I don't want to present the car with such a fault for the test! It shouldn't matter really but it doesn't look very good when it's cutting out and playing up throughout the test. Even getting it onto a ramp would be hard the way it runs now.

 

I can't say I've had any trouble with parts etc from the US either. Even the headlight vacuum actuators, once I'd actually found someone who can do them they've been keen to help and shipping internationally isn't a problem.

I bet anyone in the states that reads this will think I'm crazy spending money like this on such a car!

 

Hopefully there will be more news over the next few days...

[cort1977]

One misconception that I have seen on this thread is that petrol in the US is 'worse' than Europe.   In Europe the advertised octane rating of petrol uses the RON index, in the Americas it is the average of the RON and the MON index, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI) often written on the pump as (R+M)/2.   The MON index is just a different way of rating the properties of the fuel and the values are lower for the same formula.   So the advertised octane is 5-6 points lower in the US but the petrol is broadly equivalent, 93 Octane (AKI) is about the same as 98 octane (RON).   Admittedly in the mountain states they do sell fuel as low as 86 Octane which is about a 92 Octane in old money but it wasn't too long ago that you could buy 2 star in the UK that was about that rating.   So this whole squirrel's piss thing is wrong, it's the beer that is weak and inferior here, the gas is OK.

 

Also, the heads on this car are 40 year old smog-era cylinder heads, designed to reduce the compression and work with massively retarded timing.   Even when new they weren't great as they were a hastily implemented response to the new smog laws.   Modern heads would flow better and likely work out cheaper than rebuilding the original heads.   That's not horseshit, it was a suggestion of a different solution to the problem.

[danthecapriman]

Interesting to know about the gas vs petrol ratings. I really don't have a clue! I mentioned this to someone I was chatting to the other day and he said you can't really compare the two like for like as the system used to grade them here and there is different.

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone running US vehicles in this country experiencing problems because of it though.

 

It doesn't surprise me about the stock heads. As with most stuff on mainstream cars there's always going to be a compromise between performance, emissions and production costs. Since I'm not going to be going with any gas flowing or other performance mods like tubular manifolds etc I don't think it'll matter for my purposes. Upping the compression a little bit with new pistons will do me. I think the biggest difference from all this work will simply come from the rebuilt engine not being worn out and doing what it's supposed to do!

[hauserplenty]

Indeed. I had nothing nice to say about being flamed, so choose to say nothing*. So a big shout-out to those who have come to my defense.

 

 

Chiefed from Weakipedia:

 

Research Octane Number (RON)

The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.

 

 

Motor Octane Number (MON)

 

Another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), is determined at 900 rpm engine speed instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern pump gasoline will be about 8 to 12 octane lower than the RON, but there is no direct link between RON and MON. Pump gasoline specifications typically require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.

 

 

Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2

 

In most countries, including Australia, New Zealand and all of those in Europe,the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Posted Octane Number (PON).

 

Difference between RON, MON, and AKI

 

Because of the 8 to 12 octane number difference between RON and MON noted above, the AKI shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 6 octane numbers lower than elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. This difference between RON and MON is known as the fuel's Sensitivity,[4] and is not typically published for those countries that use the Anti-Knock Index labelling system.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*but that your mileage may vary.

[Junkman]

It's not been engine raped. The engine number matches that in the original documentation that came with the car.

All the things (like that carb) that have been tinkered with already were done to the car after it's lay up ended. Things were done or changed to replace worn out or damaged parts. The dizzy, fuel pump and lines, carb etc etc are all replacement items changed to get it working again. The last time this car was on the road in the US was 1995! It sat stored and unused until 2013ish when the guy I got it from got it and made it drivable again.

 

Also, the slightly bigger capacity but otherwise identical 460ci engine is the one to have and easier to find as far as engine raping goes. Mine is the earlier 429ci version which they stopped making in 1973, the same year as this car.

 

On the subject of mod's, I don't mind a bit here or there. As long as it's invisible! The engine will go back together and still wear all it's original parts - rocker covers, heads, even the air filter box will all remain standard. The only changes will be inside the engine. The pistons for example, will up compression slightly but the ones they are using are still from a variant of this engine, so could of been on these cars from new anyway depending on vehicle age and where it was supplied to new (emissions laws dependant). They aren't race or true performance components like you see on TV from the likes of GasMonkey garage etc etc. they are standard parts but just not the exact type fitted to this particular engine from new.

Basically, from opening the hood and having a look at the engine, you will not be able to tell anything has changed in much the same way you can pull any other engine from any other car apart and find oversize markings on pistons. This tells you it's been rebuilt but you can't tell until you strip it down.

 

I'm not a hot rodder or into modifying cars (though I have no problem with those who do - each to their own and all that!) but the fact is, this things worn out. A few little tweaks here and there for better reliability or increasing horsepower slightly are fine with me (more grunt is never a bad thing!?)

Btw, another mod I've already done is rip out the points and condenser, in favour of modern electronic ignition. Why? Because they are shit! They were problematic on old cars right from day one and now a modern (and invisible) modification is available to replace them then I see no problem with doing that. It makes the car more reliable and perform better than the old system ever could. And removes two fragile components from the mix when it comes to them failing (and fail they will!) so I won't be stood at the roadside getting pissed off.

 

I'm not having a pop at anyone btw! I just think maybe people have got the wrong end of the stick about what I'm having done here. And the extent of the work being done. After it's back together the only difference will be it'll be marginally quicker and pull slightly better. That is all.

Like I said, I'm not into hot rods, modding doing burn outs or drag runs and even if I was this car is not the car for doing that with!

It will still look the exact same as it already does now. So fear not, it'll be fine!

 

I can wait.

[purplebargeken]

This car is so minty green I want to glue an ice lolly stick to it, lob it in the freezer and then lick it to death.

 

This really is a stunning car.

[Taff]

Sorry to hear about the state of the engine but good on you for keeping on.

 

Depending which way you want to go I would be very tempted to go with some modern alloy cylinder heads, will give plenty of extra oomph and will probably compare reasonably with the cost of rebuilding the heads.   Even with a big increase in power the bottom end on this is likely so strong that a set of ARP bolts is all it needs and you're replacing those anyway presumably.   Edelbrock or ARP make heads for these engines I think.   Non stock obviously so I would keep the originals for future reference.

 

Let me know if I can help if you need stuff from the US although most companies will ship overseas these days.

 

this is a kind offer. I have a mate who does this for me from time to time. You are right, a lot of th US firms will ship overseas but they tend towards using UPS and it's expensive. For example, a new wiper knob for the Galaxie was $5 and overseas shipping was $40. It's the same diameter as a 10p piece and weighs nothing. My mate bought it for me and stuck it into a jiffy bag, saved 39 bucks. Job jobbed.

 

Is a valve job and set of rings something you could do at home instead of pulling the engine out?

 

If you decide to go for the garage option, don't go mad with high compression. It's a quick and efficient way to more power but the quality of petrol here means that high compression just leads to pinking or pre ignition. You don't have a modern car's sophisticated engine management that can tweak stuff as it runs so keep it sensible.

 

Tend to agree with the high compression comment, but it's your car mate

 

I was thinking it could have been burnt valves due to unleaded gasoline, but if there is sludge in the engine it's best to have it rebuilt. No aluminum either; more trouble than it's worth. If you lot are running monkey piss petrol then the higher compression will be wasted anyway. Best to keep it as close to stock as possible, thus preserving the value. Once it's running right I think you'll find it can get out of its own way just fine.

 

Owing to the condition, the car may have been kept in a garage and rarely driven. Definitely worth the effort and can't wait for an update!

 

Do try and get us a shot of Eddy's grinning mug whilst he's driving it...good on yer wack!

 

same here, stock (or as close to stock as poss) will pay off long term. Unless you're planning on being buried in it?

 

 

And please forget about all this hop up and modifying horseshit. The standard engine has more than sufficient power and a bunch of shade tree hot rodders just isn't smarter than an armada of graduate engineers employed by Ford. Also keep in mind that all this yank hop up stuff is designed for driving a car 1320 feet in a straight line in ideal weather and even doing that most of them struggle with.

 

 

maybe not the most diplomatic but I tend to agree

[danthecapriman]

It's been a while but things have been happening.

 

Firstly, remember those stupid headlight actuators I was struggling to get? Well, the guys in Canada I found who agreed to rebuild me a set had a right nightmare with them by the sound of it!

They aren't a stock item, so the only way was to find a pair of good ones and recondition them. The set they already had were stripped and the cases blasted. The 'guts' turned out to be fine but the cases ended up like mine - covered in pin holes from rust. So another set had to be sourced. This took ages as they seem hard to find. But in the end they managed and they are now in as new condition and on thier way over.

The guy who did the work said they were an absolute nightmare to do, none of thier tooling fits these ones (they specialise in Mercury Cougars, and the vacuum actuators are different inspite of being similar age and doing the same job). So everything had to be hand done and assembled. The important thing is I've managed to get a set of as new, leak free actuators. No more leaks and the headlight doors will now work properly. Yay!

 

Now, the car itself.

When I gave the car to the garage I also got them to sort out a small(ish) list of odd jobs in addition to the engine rebuild, most of which is now done, like new rear brakes, unsiezing the handbrake mech, new front pads etc and a load of other bits and pieces (parts all supplied by me to save a bit of £). This is all easy DIY type work but it's taking me ages to get it done so I figured I may aswell get it all done and just be done with it. It's also freed up time so I can get some work done on my other heaps.

 

The engine and box is now out of the car and stripped. I've not actually seen it yet but I have had part of the bill and spoken to them on the phone. There isn't any horror stories (yet!?) and everything is being fully stripped, cleaned and decreased then checked for serviceability. All the required parts and gaskets are on the way over and quite probably here by now.

Funnily enough, they said when they took the engine out loads of roller bearings and springs fell out of the bell housing! They had a look and come to the conclusion they were all from an old starter motor failure. Which is exactly what it was, from the Mustang starter that blew itself apart when I collected the car. But, this tells me they are doing a good job and doing exactly what they said they would. Puts my mind at rest a bit anyway!

 

So that's where it is now. In fact I'm due another bill any day now so it's possibly further ahead than that already. Once the new headlight actuators arrive I'll take them up to them and get them to fit them so the vacuum system can be reinstated properly once the engine is up and running again. I'll get a quick look at it while I'm there aswell.

Also, I've decided as far as the rebuild goes to keep things as standard as possible. In the end I thought the standard way was good enough for the last 42 years so it'll be fine for the next however many. So that puts that to bed!

 

Annoyingly the mot has now expired and so has the tax so I've had to put the car on sorn. A bit of a pisser really but it's now into September and there's still a lot of work left to do, including an mot, so I might see how it goes and just leave it sorned over winter. It'll probably be too late in the year for any real use by the time I get it back anyway.

Overall I'm still happy with how things are going and still love the car, I'm just a little disappointed that it's now two years in and winter will get in the way of play time again!

 

Pics to follow once the actuators arrive and hopefully a few pics once I go down to see the car.

[Bren]

Glad there is real progress - well done.

[cort1977]

Good to hear this is progressing.