1997 MG "HFH" F - Get your shiny head tanned this summer

[Pillock]

Collection thread done, time to make an actual thread about my time with this car.

Plans are to tidy, renovate (not restore), keep it as reliable as it seems to be, and perhaps just make sure it's an above-average car when it comes to move it on, hopefully within the AS family to generate a bit more HFH cash. It's not going to take much though, BTB has been a capable guardian and it seems to have been looked after for a long time before that.

 

Weirdly, although registered on an LU plate on the 1st August 1997, 5 months later it had only done 539 miles and was in Towcester. It then proceeded to get used a fair old bit by someone in Bedford and by July 2000, had done 30,000 miles. The next history is a bunch of old MOTs from Exeter covering 2002 to 2005 with gradually reducing annual mileage - 9k, 6k, 3k taking us to 74k

 

A couple of stamps in the book show someone was still caring for it - now to Nottingham, serviced at 81k in 2008 and 91k in 2009. Then it started getting expensive - MGF Cars (who sound like they know what they're doing) put a timing belt on, new triple layer head gasket, water pump, stretch bolts, oil filter and full service in 2011 at 95k. Sounds expensive, right? Sadly this is just scribbled in the service book so no receipts but I bet it wasn't cheap. Should have sorted any problems, but just two years later a garage in Fife (where it had gone just after the last service) had to replace two exhaust valves, head gasket again, plugs, oil and filter. Again, no receipt for the work but it had done 20k since the first HGF. The receipt for the part shows it's a Payen one so fingers crossed eh?

 

The geographically-minded ones here will have realised that this car has covered a serious mileage just being sold.... Google Maps reckon that to drive this route would be 1,182 miles.

 

So, as the collection showed - it seems to get a bit warm. I have zero experience of anything with a K-series, apart from learning to drive in a Rover 100 and during my 20 hours in that car it didn't overheat. I'll tell you what this one does, you tell me if there's anything to worry about. The original "hot coolant" smell seems to have gone now, that only affected the car for 10 miles or so - going to put that down to going from little use to lots of use, perhaps a silted up rad has cleared itself or whatever. However, I still get a hot oil smell when in stop-start traffic. Oil level is fine, coolant level is absolutely spot on perfect. Coolant temp gauge reads one segment below halfway at all times, and the fan kicks in occasionally. I have noticed that the engine cover seems to radiate a lot of heat - more so than you'd get from the radiator of a front-engined car - however the vents are above the engine not in front of it and heat rises so this might be normal. Heater vents blow really hot when hot, and when you're driving on cold they blow cool (no A/C, so cool not cold). However if you sit in traffic, the cold setting starts blowing gradually warmer. It then cools down as you move again, or if you turn the fan up higher.

 

So I think my question is at this stage, is this misbehaving or is it just as an MG F does? I've never driven one before. It does seem to run hotter based on ambient temperature of the engine, but the coolant gauge is spot on at all times. The heater baffles me a little but I think I'd be more concerned if it didn't have any heat at all - surely if it has heat, water is circulating. I don't know if I should be worried about the cool air getting warmer over time though. Finally, what should the oil temp gauge read, as this sits at about 75-80deg even when doing motorway speeds in the sunshine. In fact it gets to that point after 10 minutes and never budges a millimetre. I thought 100+ was a more normal temperature - again, an MG F issue? I have just read that your temp senders and gauges need to be matched otherwise they can read too high or too low, which makes me think I should rely on it slightly less than I rely on my solar-powered alarm clock.

 

I'll add to this as I go on. I'm planning a semi-vulgalor on the interior since the leather appears to be all present, just a bit cracked and old looking.

[Rocket88]

I wouldn't believe anything that a Rover temp gauge tells me....................I'd change thermostat, coolant, and check the steel pipes running from rad [which I'd also have a poke at] to engine............ 

[Guest Lord Sward]

Keep your eyes on the levels and ignore the gauges, they're damped so heavily as to be useless.

 

Get some grease in the front suspension wishbones and make sure the hydragas sits right and just enjoy it.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

It sounds pretty healthy to me from that description.

[Pillock]

Yeah Bob did check the levels with me, and said that's all I need to be concerned with.

He also suggested that the hot oil smell might just be oily handprints on the exhaust, as it's just had a new alternator fitted so I might do a bit more ignoring and see if it goes away....

[dugong]

CCB's TF smells of hot oil a lot.


 

[purplebargeken]

Sounds okay to me. The temp gauge reading is spot on tbh. Just keep an eye on coolant loss. Coolant new? If not then flush and refill using the correct OAT stuff.

 

Get yourself logged on to the MGF register forum and see what others say but it does seem ok to me. Whereabouts are you? I am sure one of the MGF locals would have a look for you if you chuck a cuppa and a slice of cake at them (if you are really worried).

 

Ken

[purplebargeken]

Oh, forgot to add. Well done and where are the pictures?

[Matt]

 where are the pictures?

 

Blamo!

[Pillock]

I may do a coolant drop anyway although if you clever types are saying it's OK and just to believe the gauge, I might make it worse. Keep reading things about bleed points and stuff. I'll probably do an oil swap now I have my fancy Pela pump unless BTB is going to show up and say it was done last week or summat.

 

Thanks Matt, you can be my picture serving slave

[Pillock]

 

[Split_Pin]

Hot oil smell sounds like a leaking something-or-other high up in the engine dripping oil onto the exhaust manifold.

 

I'll wager the rocker cover gasket.

 

Its a delicious smell imo.

 

NIce wee car that, hard to believe its nearly 20 years since the first of these came out.

[Noel Tidybeard]

would water-less coolant be a radical idea too far?

[robinmasters]

...Then it started getting expensive - MGF Cars (who sound like they know what they're doing) put a timing belt on, new triple layer head gasket, water pump, stretch bolts, oil filter and full service in 2011 at 95k. Sounds expensive, right?...

I seem to remember there's a place in Peterborough that specializes in these, and does that to every car they sell-but their prices still seem pretty good.

[Station]

Replacement valves would be valve stem failure on cylinder one, apparently this was a recall or known problem on K-series.

 

Getting warm with blowing cold on a warm day is normal, my diesel Astra does it. If there's no circulation of cold air in the heater unit, the heat will radiate from the heater matrix (I suppose).

I say enjoy it, and stop babysitting the temperature gauge. K-seal works on these engines, so keep a bottle in the boot. It will probably cure HGF in them permanently. 

[barefoot]

Chap down the road does similar to every k series that crosses his doors,

Something about a landrover disco rated repair.

 

They never come back to him.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

 K-seal works on these engines, so keep a bottle in the boot. It will probably cure HGF in them permanently. 

 

No way man!!!! It won't.

[dollywobbler]

Neighbours Freelander has just blown another gasket, 20k miles after the last replacement. It got 30k on the original one.

Look forward to seeing how you get on with it.

[Pillock]

I suppose I can either worry every time I drive it, and the HG might still pop or I can drive it like a sports car with the same risk.

 

I'm fairly sympathetic mechanically, I think, so it's not like I'm going to fill the header tank with Monster Energy or owt.

[Pillock]

I was trying to picture how the warm/cold air could mix and realised I had no clue how the cooling system worked, so downloaded 830 pages of workshop manual.

 

I've also seen there's a mod to put a later header tank in which incorporates a level sensor, you can wire it up to a buzzer which alerts quicker to a level drop than the temp gauge will.

[Station]

I hate to say this, but it'll probably go again, they tend to do that. I gave up trying to work out why they do this, when you've possible problem spots such as:

Locating dowels being plastic and not steel

Headgasket is three layers instead of one

Airlocks in the coolant system

Length of coolant system pipes

Shape of coolant system pipes

Incorrect torqueing of headbolts

Incorrect frame underneath block to screw head bolts into

Moving cylinder liners

Coolant reservoir is not high enough

When thermostat opens, the coolant is too cold and the engine suffers thermoshock

 

I'd go for tightening the head bolts a couple of nm, don't know if this has been tried before?

[Pillock]

I'm hoping at this point that enough knowledgeable people have owned it this far and I don't need to tinker.... Just keep an eye on it.

[purplebargeken]

^ too right.

 

Oil change not a bad idea anyway. Eurocarparts were pretty reasonable and they even delivered mine. Go for the premium filter and Maganetex or whatever it is. 

 

Ken

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Father in law has a 2005 TF he's owned from new,it's done something like 40,000 miles and it's on it's 3rd head gasket . The last one was a super dooper 6 ply Lotus racing spec one or some such bollocks and cost him a grand.

He's a twat and I hate him so obviously I say things like 'Better the devil you know' when he asks my advice about chopping it in for an MX5.

[TRW]

I keep trying to get my bird to ditch her Citroen C1 for a MGF, only problem is she won't do it (knowing the K problems from me foolishly talking about them)  as she will be liable for all the repair bills (including the OMGHGFPANTBLOWWINGPAIN)

 

She keeps telling me to Fuck Off.......I have spent the last 8 months trying to kill that bastard Citroen without luck, and without her knowing the pain I have subjected that C1 too.........

 

Good buy though, I do approve.

[Pillock]

Buy one and get her to drive it, she'll love it. There's loads of sub-£500 ones on eBay.

 

Not swapping a modern Citroen for an MG for fear of catastrophic failure? Erm.....

[Barry Cade]

Right.

 

The garage in Fife which did the last work on the car was me. MKK motors was my place when I went on my own. I am also an Ex Rover tech and know my way around MGF's and K series...I bought the car as an MOT failure just about non runner with 3 buckled wheels,a lot of electrical issues and a non functioning clutch,a torn hood and no handbrake and went through the whole car ready for a blast to the Frankfurt Motor Show last year, Fife-Dover-Frankfurt-Calais-Fife in 9 days. It never EVER missed a beat, crawling through London,120+ on the Autobahn...no breakdown cover and only a litre of oil,water and a couple of tools just in case of an issue.Please people... Instead of repeating the countless pages of woe written about these cars, listen to folks who have actually driven them,lived with them and looked after them...

 

Triple layer, quadruple layer, ladder.....PISH.

 

Payen gasket works. The best gasket in the world won't fix airlocks,a blocked rad or leaking underfloor pipes...This is what kills MGF's. Hardly anyone ever bleeds them properly, or can even be arsed to take off the engine cover to service them properly...

 

I hope you enjoy the cars as much as I did, give it plenty of caring looking at and drive the thing instead of looking at the dials.

 

Belgium

 

Saarburg,Germany

 

MKK Motors and a customers K Series.

 

 

 

[Barry Cade]

Keep your eyes on the levels and ignore the gauges, they're damped so heavily as to be useless.

 

Get some grease in the front suspension wishbones and make sure the hydragas sits right and just enjoy it.

Done and done. Hydrolastic fluid was my own recipe too. Rear suspension was greased too, which everyone forgets.

[Barry Cade]

Sounds okay to me. The temp gauge reading is spot on tbh. Just keep an eye on coolant loss. Coolant new? If not then flush and refill using the correct OAT stuff.

 

Get yourself logged on to the MGF register forum and see what others say but it does seem ok to me. Whereabouts are you? I am sure one of the MGF locals would have a look for you if you chuck a cuppa and a slice of cake at them (if you are really worried).

 

Ken

Coolant was replaced with correct OAT at 50%

[Barry Cade]

Replacement valves would be valve stem failure on cylinder one, apparently this was a recall or known problem on K-series.

 

Getting warm with blowing cold on a warm day is normal, my diesel Astra does it. If there's no circulation of cold air in the heater unit, the heat will radiate from the heater matrix (I suppose).

I say enjoy it, and stop babysitting the temperature gauge. K-seal works on these engines, so keep a bottle in the boot. It will probably cure HGF in them permanently. 

Nope, it had burnt a small bit on No4, and No3 had slight signs too, so correct Rover valves were fitted and lapped in. K Seal is not a prevention..if you need K seal, you have a problem which needs repaired,not masked.