VEG friendly motors.... What runs on what?

[Inspector Morose]

If I'm thinking right, that bloody great huge water cooled EGR valve is the same as fitted to a multiple of multijets (pun intended). Ive a similar one on bolted to the 1.3 diesel in SWMBOs Panda. It's about the size of the bloody engine! I can't see how you could use it for pre-heating fuel oil though.

Another idea would be the fuel heater off a Xantia diesel as I think they were separate items and so could be plumbed into anything else without too much difficulty*.

[Lankytim]

That's the one, the cooler pipe itself looks like a moped exhaust!

[forddeliveryboy]

Best thing to heat fuel is something like this, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/plate-HEAT-EXCHANGER-biofuel-veg-vegetable-cooking-oil-SVO-WVO-biodiesel-PPO-UCO-/261476069174?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3ce1302f36 or a second hand exchanger from a combi - they used to pop up on ebay all the time for £20, seem to be fewer now.

 

The direct injection engines which will reliably tolerate v high %s of veg (without twin tanking) are the VW ones with VP37s, they have a bowl in the top of the piston which can collect any unburnt fuel while waiting at the lights. The 5 cyl ones generally don't like starting on higher %s for some reason. Don't idle a TDi from cold when on veg, unburnt fuel soon fills the piston bowl then starts tricking down the skirt, starting off the low compression/poor combustion viscious circle, ending in polymerised sump oil and fubar engine.

 

Air leaks in fuel lines are the common problem - use proper fuel hose clips,not the jubilee-type. Starting and stopping on diesel minimises the chance of problems, especially if you can't be bothered to check compression, injector spray pattern and so on before you pour in the veg. Engine preheaters also good.

[forddeliveryboy]

Someone asked me if I'd any knowledge of the L-series Rover diesels - I know they're Bosch pumped and should be fine twin tanked, but does anyone have any first-hand experience of single tanking these?

[CHRIS1980]

Fish faced Ford Scorpios with the VM lump are supposed to be very good too-they also have a built in heat exchanger so no need to add one.

I've ran a couple of old Mercs on it-the fuel pumps will need the rubber O rings replaced and on my C250 the thicker Veg gave me no end of trouble with air getting drawn in somewhere. My old w124 300D ran perfectly on it once I'd got through about 10 inline filters in the first few months...

I have a VM engine in my frontera and it loves SVO. No loss in performance and mpg is still the same. I changed the filter today as it started to get lumpy at idle,but it's back to normal now. The filter was filthy when I did a post mortum. I also add 2 stroke to it as well,although the jury's still out on that.

[CHRIS1980]

Someone asked me if I'd any knowledge of the L-series Rover diesels - I know they're Bosch pumped and should be fine twin tanked, but does anyone have any first-hand experience of single tanking these?

It's a Di engine that's all I know. Being a Landy it's bound to have had someone chuck veg in it. Not a bad engine as it goes,and a better effort than that shite td4.

[dome]

Someone asked me if I'd any knowledge of the L-series Rover diesels - I know they're Bosch pumped and should be fine twin tanked, but does anyone have any first-hand experience of single tanking these?

A bubble shaped 200 was this first thing I ran on Veg. It ran well on it up to about 50/50. Scrapped it as the rest of it was fucked but the engine was fine.

[forddeliveryboy]

Thanks for that. I'll let them know. Anyone run them on higher %s?

 

I've just had a look at the pistons and they do have bowls in them, like VW TDIs (which is what makes them tolerant of veg, unlike most direct injection diesels) so perhaps they're as good as a VW unit for 90% vegoiling.

[Lacquer Peel]

I never had any problems running L-series engines on veg, ran a 220di on 100% through the summer.

Is the bowl in the piston the only thing that makes VAG TDIs good on veg?

[forddeliveryboy]

Thanks for that, LP. Confirms my thought that the L-series should love veg. So Freelanders pre TD4, 200 and 400s (95-on) and even the 25s and 45s, I think. Apart from being hard on the cambelt (rec 40k interval) everything I've read suggests they're great engines.

 

The mechanical (VP37) pump allows you to use veg in the first place, obv. The bowl-topped pistons make them more tolerant of it - otherwise any unburnt fuel (which happens even on a warm engine when idling for around a minute or longer) immediately starts its way down the pistons and will gum the rings. The Bosch VP30/44 pump (http://www.vp44diesel.de/en/vp3044-list-of-cars) is way less tolerant - they go wrong even on the correct viscosity fuel.

 

For anyone who doesn't know, you can leave indirect injections (pre-HDi PSA, pre-CDi Mercs, generally things called D, DT or TD)  idling for ages without much worry, if all's well (compression, thermostat working properly, injector pattern etc).

 

It wasn't so long ago that the experts were saying no to running veg in VW and LR TDis, because of the direct injection. Then as cars got cheaper, people tried and it worked. I think there are a few CR diesels which are surprisingly tolerant of high veg %s, Mercedes and Alfa spring to mind.

[2MB]

I've nothing to add on the technical side but day to day running, especially ease of starting from cold, I've found Mercedes the best (4/5/6 pot non turbo found in w201, w123 and w124), followed by pug XUD and vw td (mk2 golf)

[Lacquer Peel]

Thanks for that, LP. Confirms my thought that the L-series should love veg. So Freelanders pre TD4, 200 and 400s (95-on) and even the 25s and 45s, I think. Apart from being hard on the cambelt (rec 40k interval) everything I've read suggests they're great engines.

 

It's 84k/7 years according to Autodata.

Probably the best engine Rover made, a shame the modern developments of it with common rail and multivalves didn't see fruition.

 

I'm really interested to try a cheap common rail diesel on a veg mix.

[forddeliveryboy]

Fiat JTDs are meant to be as good as any. NOt sure if there's a particular one which is better than the rest.

 

I seem to remember reading something on the MG-Rover forums written by an ex-engineer who was involved with the development of the later versions of the L. Iirc, he gave up trying to fine tune things to stop the belt vibrating so much and reckoned it was the engine's only fault, so recommended the shorter interval on the later units. Think he also mentioned he recommended the shorter interval for the earlier ones, too.

 

I'm not sure if they developed a rep for snappage or not, prob not.

[Heidel_Kakao]

Hey hey it's bumping time. Will my 2.5 TD XM be veg friendly like Lankytims? I can just pour straight veg oil into the tank and that's it? It's my first ever diesel but I have always wanted to try running on veg oil at least once.

[beko1987]

Before you even think about that (and I don't know so don't assume on my account), how easy is the fuel filter to change?

 

Buy 3, and practise changing it by driving somewhere, but stop halfway home and change it. Don't wear special clothes.

 

Then check if it can run veg... Nowt wrong with it but it'll drag all sorts of shit up the first time, my xud zx turned the first filter black within its first 2 tanks of veg, then stayed quite clean for a fair while after. Or you'll misjudge the cold an have to change a sludged up filter in works car part after driving in at 4k+ revs to stop it cutting out, negotiating junctions and red lights etc because your commute isn't quite long enough to warm the fuel up in the tank...

[Heidel_Kakao]

The filter looks pretty simple to change according to the Haynes manual. How much does veg oil actually cost compared to diesel?

 

I do hardly any miles so have no need to run on veg but just wanted to try it once for fun. It has half a tank of diesel in it at the moment so could start off running a mainly derv and veg blend.

[Dave_Q]

Veg oil from normal supermarkets is about £1 a litre as they've cottoned on to people using it as fuel. 

 

You may be able to get it for 70-80p a litre from a cash and carry.

 

It's only really worthwhile if you can get used oil for next to nowt, or if cabbage juice is still available for 50p a litre from Cleland Alternative Fuels Inc and you can collect from t'dales.

[castros_bro]

 P reg  Megane from an Autoshitest running Booker's finest about 60p litre when pump fuel is 120p litre. Fck off you can't be bothered to understand.

[Heidel_Kakao]

P reg Megane from an Autoshitest running Booker's finest about 60p litre when pump fuel is 120p litre. Fck off you can't be bothered to understand.

What is a litre? ELI5.

 

Interesting I had not heard of Bookers before. Makro and Costco yes but Bookers no. One just down the road apparently.

[M'coli]

Tesco Extra in Leeds had 5L of sunflower for £3.80 yesterday.

[Dave_Q]

P reg Megane from an Autoshitest running Booker's finest about 60p litre when pump fuel is 120p litre. Fck off you can't be bothered to understand.

Cheers, very friendly.

 

Diesel is £1.15 up here and I recall reading that 70-80p was the going rate at a cash and carry which isn't quite the 50% difference you've got there.

 

None of my cars are veg friendly anyway but the info on Bookers will be useful to others.

 

Their website says they only allow charities or businesses, in your experience are they strict on this, or will they give you a card with a story about being a self employed basket weaver but no actual proof?

[Lacquer Peel]

The XM 2.5 TD should be veg friendly.

I don't agree with veg oil in a previously white diesel only car dragging up muck, it just clogs marginal fuel filters quicker - diesel is an effective cleaner too.

Fit a new fuel filter as a precaution, I think they use a similar style of filter and filter housing as XUD9s, so easy to swap and prime with the bulb.

 

Not sure where in the country you are but this always struck me as a good deal, they've been selling for a long time, 60p/litre

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SVO-Wvo-Veggie-New-Cooking-Vegetable-Rapeseed-Fat-Oil-20-Litres-In-DURHAM-/122709982490

 

Edit: ah, Midlands...

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VEGETABLE-OIL-approximately-110-litres-/322758478312

Pretty expensive for used oil IMO but appears to be filtered already, Burton upon Trent

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/car-part-accessories/wvo-ktc-50p-a-litre-used-veg-oil/1263539082

50p/litre filtered WVO, Nuneaton

[Lacquer Peel]

My SEAT Inca SDI is running like a champ on filtered waste vegetable oil. I was collecting some empty barrels from a small renewables company today and spotted these in a corner, they ran their fleet on biodiesel for a while but didn't have the time to process it, I got it for free.

[matty879]

My SEAT Inca SDI is running like a champ on filtered waste vegetable oil. I was collecting some empty barrels from a small renewables company today and spotted these in a corner, they ran their fleet on biodiesel for a while but didn't have the time to process it, I got it for free.

it is out there,i recently found 300 litres of the stuff for £1,i couldnt use it but made sure a shiter close to me got his hands on it.

[Lacquer Peel]

My main supply of waste oil is free too but it's bloody miles away.

[matty879]

has anyone had problems with primer bulbs?they used to go soft and suck closed cutting the fuel off,i had it with my rover bubble and an xud

[Lacquer Peel]

I think air ingress and fuel starvation can cause them to collapse

[beko1987]

Also never underestimate the fun you can have regardless of money saving!

 

My boss got me a £30 asda voucher one year with my office whip round, and I said I'd get some fuel. "but you can use vouchers at the petrol station" a few people chimed up... Petrol station? We had had several new people join that year so some people knew you could as I'd told them before, the newbies with their financed up audi a1's etc didn't. So off I trotted to asda, spent the lot on veg then came back and they all came out and watched me as I filled the zx up with lovely free veg... Then had a free few weeks of motoring

 

"Sam you've just fucked your car m8..."

 

Always fun to be had! Eid is a good time to buy too, although you'll never save a fortune with shop veg. Think I used to save about £16 a tank with the xantia, which although good, was close to the pointless level after detouring 9 miles to asda and back etc

[castros_bro]

Re. Bookers. I Opened a cash only account and give can give you a card which then needs to be registered at your nearest Bookers. You can then only buy stuff there for cash and not put anything on account like quite a few others do. No idea if their rules to open an account but you can just talk to them and apply directly

[Talbot]

Best engines ever for SVO/WVO are big merc diesels.  OM617 was the first of the line, a 3.0 litre 5-pot that would run on anything that burned.  Some people have even run them on old transmission fluid, and they still run well.

 

Unfortunatly, OM617's are getting very thin on the ground, and those that are left are in some very expensive classics.  There's also the issue that most 617's went to the states or stayed in Germany... few came to the UK.

 

Coming back up to date, the OM601/602/603 series of 4-cyl 2.0, 5-cyl 2.5 and 6-cyl 3.0 engines were just as good at running on SVO/WVO.  Many of these (fitted in W124's) could be specified with additional filters and fuel pre-heaters to allow it to run on SVO from the factory.  The last series of Merc engines capable of this (mainly due to the excellent Bosch inline injection pump, which has it's own engine oil pressure feed for lubrication) are the OM604/605/606 engines that were fitted to W202s, Late W124s and Early W210s.

 

The "holy grail" engine is the Turbo OM606 from a W210, which is a 4-valve-per-cylinder 3.0-litre 6-pot engine making 180hp from factory, and well known for being hewn from a solid block of granite.  There are people who have modified these to get over 500hp, with just turbo and injection pump modifications.  The block and head need minimal work.  They absolutely run like a dream on SVO, and with a little care with filtering are just fine on WVO too.

 

The only real shitter is the rest of the car they are fitted in.  W210's are from the "rusts before your very eyes" era of mercedes.  They also look pap.  A W124 looks quite stately and respectable.  The W210 looks like a lump of playdoh.  I still have one though.  It has it's plus points, but has a lot of negatives too.