Tagora SX - Restoration

[pshome]

Would you like to swap your front chassis rails for my headlamp wipers? 

...arrgh  if you would have asked a year ago...

 

This one had a good chassis and perfect rails:

 

 

but it is no more...

 

Its steel already found a second life....

[lisbon_road]

Very impressed with this effort.  Last time I looked on 'howmanyleft.com' there weren't any.  I know its data can be tricky but I suspect it wasn't far out.  Hence great respect for saving one of these.

 

Seem loads of stuff on ebay though, some optimistic sellers perhaps?

[quicksilver]

I must be dreaming...epic tales of Stellar and FSO restoration and now a Tagora to top it all off That bronze beauty has messed with my brain and now I can't think of anything to say.

[ProgRocker]

Sweet Georgia Brown, another Tagora. Sweet! Well purchased!

[406V6]

Congratulations on your magnificent purchase. There can't be many Autoshiters that bought a car to match their forum username but anyway you get 10 / 10 for dedication and bravery.

 

The rust in the pics looks horrific. Was the car stored outside ? I can't imagine a car in a decent garage rusting as much. Good luck fixing up the metalwork. Getting the right paint will be an interesting exercise – I can't imagine many customers for that shade of metallic brown in the past. Do put more pictures on the forum as the car gets restored.

 

The Tagora may well be the shiters icon for 80s vehicles based on the amount of forum love I've seen over the years. I'm surprised at the relative lack of forum love for the 00s equivalent vehicles – the C6 and Vel Satis.

[TagoraSX]

Long awaited interior pics, in good condition by all accounts.

 

A rhapsody in beige......

 

 

 

Slight damage to the driver's seat bolster.

 

 

 

 

The rear seat looks extremely comfortable, which is good as I may end up sleeping on it.

 

[Hertz]

The interior looks really clean!

[carlo]

Sumptious

[trigger]

Stunning! That looks a really comfy place to be.

[HillmanImp]

Just seen this. The first set of picks gave me a MASSIVE wood and the second set made me spunk out 3 metres of MIG wire.

[Steviemillar]

Fantastic interior, looks all to be in good order too

[Essex V6]

They don't make seats like that any more - barge-tastic!

[tagoraman83]

I am very jealous of your roof and headlining. I'm Still on the lookout for a good roof for my SX. 
If a trip to France is on the cards for a donor tagora I'll have the roof and you can have the rest! 
 
I bought the 220 Trx's and am going to risk them on mine, I don't think I could live with anything
but the standard squaretastic alloys. The colour will be easy to find, my car is blue and I found
the colour no problem and purchased enough 2 pack basecoat to do the full car.

 

The running gear is easy to find, the suspension is pug 505/604 and the prv has been fitted in

just about everything. The carbs were fitted on early 911's so parts are readily available from

weber.Body panels (including roof skins!) are nigh on impossible to find as is trim. The mirrors 

are made of rubber so perish and split , mine looked ok when I got the car but have now split.

Don't make the mistake of paying a fortune for nos lotus sunbeam mirrors as I did as they look

The same in pics on the bay but are scaled down versions of the tag ones,approx 7/10 the size.

I'm sure there must be a company that could 're-manufacture them....at a cost.

 

Anyway good luck and keep us all posted! 

[pshome]

In case you rebuild the carbs, you will see that they are different from the 911's original 40IDA and not all parts fit.
Word is that when Talbot finished the engine, they went to Weber to order a few thousand carbs. The Italians were very much surprised "Sorry we last made same in the sixties, the castings are gone". Weber then made new housings and changed some parts, the carbs they delivered than were of rather low quality. The Talbot people needed hours to find more or less matching pairs that work. This is why the engine ended up at 166HP, it was initially supposed to be 180HP, however 166 was about the minimm they could obtain with the "new" Webers. Depeding on the mood and the luck of the guy fitting the engines you may have 166HP or more under the hood.

 

Different float needles

 

911 40IDA seal wont fit.

 

 

The floats are different as well, so is the accelerator pump.

[pshome]

... and if the beast starts with difficulties, then have a look below your carbs. Very likely it looks similar to what i found causing your mix to be way to lean to start properly. This was at only 75000 km on the engine!

 

[tagoraman83]

Yes I agree the carbs have differences but Webcon in the UK do still list overhaul kits.

There is even a company in the US,PMO carburretors, that makes new triple choke carbs to replace the

webers and their carbs are supposed to be far superior.

The mounting rubbers and insulators that were knackered on Pete's are readily available being used

on any Carb'd prv engine. 

I also agree that the webers are poor quality, I spent ages trying to balance mine to no avail,

I used to work on a rolling road and never had so much trouble trying to balance a pair of

carbs. I have now at great expense bought a pair of carbs from France off a really low mileage 

SX (mine has 122k on it) and am going to rebuild them very carefully so hopefully will soon 

have mine running like a Swiss watch. Pity Talbot never got round to putting fuel injection on

the SX as they planned. 2 Triple throttle bodies and efi really would have made a difference to the 

running and reliability. 

[capsuleboy]

You are indeed an inspiration...14 of them on Leboincoin at present, dangerous very dangerous.

[oman5]

What about raiding a volvo 760 for bits? that could be had with the PRV engine on carbs or fuel injection. out of all the vehicles that used this engine the 760 is going to be the easiest to find

[scooters]

I have always wanted a tagora but never owned one...uranium grade chod

 

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[Sigmund Fraud]

What about raiding a volvo 760 for bits? that could be had with the PRV engine on carbs or fuel injection. out of all the vehicles that used this engine the 760 is going to be the easiest to find

 

Just keep in mind that Volvo significantly re-engineered the PRV in 1987 (IIRC), so 760s later than that will come with a B280 engine which is very different to a Tagora PRV.

[406V6]

Couple of suggestions for parts. You will probably think these are bonkers and impractical but with a rare car like the Tagora I figure anything is worth suggesting if it gets you back on the road.

 

For the mirrors have you thought of getting someone with a 3D scanner and 3D printer to have a go at making a new one ? It won't be easy to find them but there might be a local uni or college that has one or maybe even someone on here knows where to find one. The material used wouldn't be rubber but it will be a plastic of some kind and could be a suitable consistency.

 

For the roof the guys on this thread made a roof for their car - admittedly not a Tagora - from scratch using sheet metal. There might be someone around who can do this.

[pshome]

The original (1974) 2.7L PRV was phased out by Peugeot in 83 and replaced by the 2.8L. The 1984 Tagora 9L engine was supposed to be based on the new version as well, resulting in about 180HP.

As we all know it never happened,... well almost:

About ten 2.8L engines were already supplied to Talbot, got modified pistons and heads and fitted with Webers. They actually ended up in some of the last 1983 SX models. These were delivered to customers without telling them! Did you have a close look under your hood?

 

 

 

By the way, the Tagora PRV has different pistons, larger valves and a hot cam... using a standard PRV and just putting the webers on top gives you little more than a shitty mileage.

[tagoraman83]

Good work PS,I wasn't aware of the 2.8 SX's.In that data sheet does it not say BV(boite vitesse)Automatique?

Perhaps they went to 2.8 because they were planning to make auto SX's,I have a brochure that mentions an auto gearbox SX.

I wonder if there is any way apart from stripping the engine down to find out if an SX is 2.8?

 

Now perhaps I am wrong in this but I read somewhere that all 1083 SX's were built in 1981 and as they couldn't sell them a lot sat

around and in showrooms so were registered somewhat later? Mine was registered in 1984 and i've yet to find a part on it with a

date stamp later than 1981.

Oh and here are a couple of pics of my SX when I bought it for those who don't remember it being on the bay!

 

[pshome]

You can tell the year of manufacture from the last two charactes of the chassis number. It starts with A for the first year of production followed by the factory code, P for “Poissyâ€Â. So your 82 would be CP (80 = AP, 81 = BP, 83 = DP). Note that this is the "model year", model change was end September.  I dont think all SX were made in 81. Most 81's went into the show rooms and these were then also sold as 81 cars, quite often in 82 or later at a huge discount. Since the SX was available but in August 81, most of the initial client orders were already supplied as 82's. Overall Tagora Production was homeopathic in 82 (2566 all models) and 83 (1310) lacking demand and the dealers preferring to sell the show room car to the odd customer insisting to buy one. Nevertheless, the few ordered new in 82 and 83 were actually made that year. My SX still has the original factory punch card with the options and paint codes marks dated 83. For the factory this was never really a problem, Poissy was one of the first factories with a mixed assembly lines where all models were made in any order on the same line.

 

While many parts were from the original large stock bought in 81 after the 1980 pre-series, some parts were replaced on later models. For example the plastic hat rack was replaced by a better quality carpeted bit in the last year and the handles above the passenger doors are of a more flexible material thats doesn't fall apart at the first look. My 83 SX is generally of a much better build quality than the two 81 GLS.

Yes, 84 SX was supposed to get an autobox and cruise control, but the trip computer was to be replaced by a simple clock.

 

Tagora follows Horizon, note the happy workers, with Allahs help  they must have build nothing but excellent cars.

.. or does he praise the day holy Tagora finally came by after a long wait, while the others take a break and wonder where to find the parts that may go into it.

[pshome]

Pity Talbot never got round to putting fuel injection on

the SX as they planned. 2 Triple throttle bodies and efi really would have made a difference to the 

running and reliability. 

 

Story is that when they first approached Bosch to modify the (existing 504 CC) PRV K-Jetronic, the repsonse was quite positive "sure, needs a bit of adjustment, no big deal". Then BMW and Mercedes got word and put pressure on Bosch fearing the competition. Bosch then reverted to "oh well, seems we are very short on ressources right now and the development will take us at least a year, if not two" That is when they picked up a pair of 40IDA's from a Porsche shop around the corner and started playing with it.

[pshome]

 

I wonder if there is any way apart from stripping the engine down to find out if an SX is 2.8?

 

 

Bore is 91 instead of 88mm, there are certainly some subtle differences on the outside, but i dont know.  505, Alpine V6GTi and R25 had that engine, maybe you can google a pic to compare.

 

Otherwise, find a straight road, shift to fourth gear and press the pedal to the bottom.... if you end up at a tree, the road was not straight, if you end up above 200km/h you have the 2849cc engine!

[tagoraman83]

I was a technician in a Renault dealer for years and the only way to 

check the capacity just from looking a a prv was the engine plate

that is riveted to the block. I have rebuilt more prv's than I can 

remember and the blocks all look the same,apart from the even fire

which has crossbolted main bearing caps.

My chassis no is VF491B452DP259926 so the DP makes it an 83 then?

Surely the engine code must have been different on 2.8 engines? I'll 

Have to check mine. I have not maxed it to see if it will do 200kph,approx 

124mph, but it goes from 70mph to 100mph very quickly whilst making a

glorious noise. 

[pshome]

My chassis no is VF491B452DP259926 so the DP makes it an 83 then?

 

Its a 83 model then built from Oct 82 onwards.

[TagoraSX]

I have also read that the carburetor body becomes porous at a certain temperature flooding the manifold.

 

Is it possible to have it treated or coated with something to stop this?
 

[Asimo]

I am loving all of this PRV V6 talk. I wish I had had the encouragement of Autoshite when I was fighting the miserable carbs. on my GTA Alpine.