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Tagora SX - Restoration


TagoraSX

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You can tell the year of manufacture from the last two charactes of the chassis number. It starts with A for the first year of production followed by the factory code, P for “Poissyâ€Â. So your 82 would be CP (80 = AP, 81 = BP, 83 = DP). Note that this is the "model year", model change was end September.  I dont think all SX were made in 81. Most 81's went into the show rooms and these were then also sold as 81 cars, quite often in 82 or later at a huge discount. Since the SX was available but in August 81, most of the initial client orders were already supplied as 82's. Overall Tagora Production was homeopathic in 82 (2566 all models) and 83 (1310) lacking demand and the dealers preferring to sell the show room car to the odd customer insisting to buy one. Nevertheless, the few ordered new in 82 and 83 were actually made that year. My SX still has the original factory punch card with the options and paint codes marks dated 83. For the factory this was never really a problem, Poissy was one of the first factories with a mixed assembly lines where all models were made in any order on the same line.

 

While many parts were from the original large stock bought in 81 after the 1980 pre-series, some parts were replaced on later models. For example the plastic hat rack was replaced by a better quality carpeted bit in the last year and the handles above the passenger doors are of a more flexible material thats doesn't fall apart at the first look. My 83 SX is generally of a much better build quality than the two 81 GLS.

 

Yes, 84 SX was supposed to get an autobox and cruise control, but the trip computer was to be replaced by a simple clock.

 

Tagora follows Horizon, note the happy workers, with Allahs help  they must have build nothing but excellent cars.

Poissy.jpeg

.. or does he praise the day holy Tagora finally came by after a long wait, while the others take a break and wonder where to find the parts that may go into it.

I wish he'd spent less time praying and a little more time with the Waxoyl gun...

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porous carb bodies,I'm sure I've read that somewhere but is there any truth in it? I've read loads of info from companies in the US who rebuild triple webers for 911s and ferraris and apart from throttle bodies twisting and needing surfacing and the spindle holes re-machining I;ve never read about those guys having any problems with porous bodies so I'm not sure.I think the only reason I couldn't manage to set mine up is wear on the spindles and bearings causing air leaks.

In one of this month's car magazines,can't remember which one,there is a company that will convert carbs to throttle bodies so perhaps that is the way to go with mappable injection?The fuel tank is either pug 505 or 604 so you'd just need a tank from a fuel injected one of those with the pump and Robert's your father's brother.

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Fair point but if the carbs off the car were converted to throttle bodies 

then surely they've gotta sound similar? only without the going out of tune

and flat spots and poor fuel consumption. So then carbs vs throttle bodies....

Which sounds the best? 

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.. you forgot the ever for no reason changing idle speed.

 

Tagora SX not going out of tune, without flat spots and idling stable is not a Tagora SX anymore :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

 

Fuel consumption isn't really that bad, i average 11l/100km. Even on the Autobahn keeping the needle around 160 it's 14l/100km

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Most if not all of the Ferrari and Porsche carbs would have been made from the original castings in the 60's and would have been better quality. As Peter has said these castings were gone when Talbot ordered carbs for the SX.

 

The guy who mentioned this was carrying out warranty work on Tagoras in the early 80's, and I quote...

 

"I spent days on one trying everything to get it to run properly and finally got an admission from Talbot that they had a batch of carbs of an unknown quantity that had porous bodies. They got to a certain temperature and the body of the carb became porous and the fuel flooded the manifold!"

 

I've read about the same problem today with new Spanish made "Webers"

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Ok that does seem to be factual so we're all buggered then.

I wonder what both of boobydoo's sx's run like? 

 

I dont consider the odd engine behaviour as negative, it perfectly fits to an all around odd car and driving it is still fun. Just make sure you have a screwdriver ready when it starts to stall at every second traffic light, only to then idle rev at 2000 an hour later. :mrgreen:

 

Actually, after i did the carbs, it became much better, its now idling somewhere between 1000 and 1500 and that is OK.

 

Does anybody here know how that sensor is supposed to work (driven by underpressure taken from the carbs and somehow managed by a box labeled "Electronique" ) that moves the little motor thingy on top acting on the main throttle?

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Peter what process did you use to clean your carbs up? I've previously used vapour blasting 

but it leaves a matt silver finish not a shiny one like you have? 

 

Ultrasonic bath, add fine sand to the bath to get the shine. Be sure to blast them out with high pressure afterwards to get rid of the sand.

 

post-5425-0-95974700-1397249034_thumb.jpg

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I suspect the mechanics used to take the V6 bits of the manual out 

and keep them in their toolboxes. I had to buy five manuals to get the

V6 bits. There are a set of new manuals on eBay at the moment, they 

May still have the V6 bits in but are in Dutch I think.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After much thought I decided to remove all the parts of the cold running system including the airbox and its associated plumbing. I'll eventually get a pair of the Pipercross triple filters as used on Porsches with the IDA's.  My SX is never going to be an everyday car or used in colder months, so off it all came and there was a lot of it!   

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Shame, its so much fun having to remove all that crap whenever you want to do anything on the engine 8)

Not having spent an hour removing the box and its surroundings, you are not in the right mood to work on the engine, all efforts to fix somethig will then inevitably fail!

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Guest Jason Wise

Let's face it, you can't get to anything under that enormous air box! I just hope that removing some of these parts won't effect it's running, especially the "electronique" box of tricks! I know it's going to be rough untill warm but I can live with that.

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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lt will start ok, but without the "choke" flap in the air inlet you will have to keep playing with the gas pedal to prevent it from dying at idle for a few minutes... Unless you have 20 lights on the first mile from home, not a big deal.

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Guest Jason Wise

I was surprised to see that the whole system was by Weber as all the parts have the Weber logo, they certainly went to a lot of trouble to make these carbs work!

 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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Does anybody here know how that sensor is supposed to work (driven by underpressure taken from the carbs and somehow managed by a box labeled "Electronique" ) that moves the little motor thingy on top acting on the main throttle?

 

I guess it's an idle speed control solenoid, at least that's what it is called in the American language.

Practically all of the last carburetted yanks had it. It adjusts the tickover according to the load demand, for example, car in neutral, car in drive (we're talking badermatic, of course) car in drive with A/C on, car in neutral with A/C on, etc.

It was just one more attempt at lowering fuel consumption and meet emissions standards, before everything went silicone idiot and injection.

The electronic box is really that - electronic - and with that I mean analogue. It's basically an amplifier. It measures the vacuum, converts it into a voltage, and compares this signal with a given constant voltage. The difference is amplified and used to move the solenoid. Transistors are involved, and those do have a shelf life, as it turned out.

 

I'd say you can do away with it altogether. Mechanically adjust the tickover so you can live with it under all circumstances, and be done with it.

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I guess all this would have been necessary when new and in daily use, but now it's 30+ years old and will be for sunny Sunday use only, it's now in a box on the shelf, which is where it's staying! I prefer to keep things simple

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I guess all this would have been necessary when new and in daily use, but now it's 30+ years old and will be for sunny Sunday use only, it's now in a box on the shelf, which is where it's staying! I prefer to keep things simple

My SX is in daily use :mrgreen: 

I love to make things work the way they are supposed to, even if objectively it makes no sense. So i will tinker with it a bit more.

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I know what you mean, I am afflicted with the same thing, if it's there it should work! But I've found a way around it, take it off so it's not there and you don't have to worry about getting it to work anymore ;-) I really must get the new starter fitted so I can see for myself how it runs, but looks like a pig of a job :-(

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  • 6 months later...

While surfing around the web I came across this pic of a derelict Tagora apparently in a hoarder's garden and seemingly only taken a year ago. There might be some usable parts on it and worth following it up via the photographer. Bit of a long shot but you never know.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_sam/10532869043/in/set-72157637050547846/

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