Project Korean Cortina - going back in time!

[They_all_do_that_sir]

How much power will the transmission cope with?

 

Twin turbos would be interesting.....

 

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[twosmoke300]

Change the lt77 for a r380 and I reckon about 380nm of torque 😄

[mat_the_cat]

Does reinforce what I said in another thread about most rover v8s being buggered tho .

Will be like a rocket once it's done!

 

I know! I'd always read that they hide their wear well, but I'm still surprised at how sweet it sounded even though it wasn't well. I knew it was unlikely to be in top condition given the fact it looked a bit black peeking inside the oil filler hole. But not worn to the extent you could apparently see the difference in valve lift between cylinders!

 

Change the lt77 for a r380 and I reckon about 380nm of torque

 

Good job I already have an R380 fitted then! I'm still not planning on going mad with it though, just a cam change and probably a lightened flywheel, as the car is lighter than the SD1 and with lower overall gearing.

 

Nothing difficult about a rebuild - head bolts snap and crank pulley can be a bit awkward to remove.

 

I hope not, as I had to remove it to get the engine in place originally! At least that should hopefully mean it's not too stuck in place.

 

I'm really regretting a decision I made a few years ago though - I used to work at QH and they had a brand new, never run RV8 block and heads as part of a water pump test rig. My boss agreed to swap for a scrap engine, and my plan was to build the new lump into a nice engine. Sadly finances got in the way, so I had to sell it to help pay bills. Unfortunately I started at £50 on eBay, and only had the one bid I realised afterwards I could have got twice as much just weighing it in! 

[DeeJay]

With the excellent work you've done on the body,

when you sort the engine out the car will probably be better than new.

[Inspector Morose]

My sympathies with the current mill. I'll put the word out and see what turns up for you. Don't hold your breath but you never know. Anything I can do just speak.

[Bren]

The problem is the V8 isnt cheap to have rebuilt proffesionally - a lot of people do them at home on a budget - so they dont always get done properly.

[mat_the_cat]

Well, this is going to be built at home on a budget too...

But my plan is to do it in stages, as and when I can afford things. That way I can spread the cost over several months, and if (when?) I run into unforeseen problems, it'll just have to take that bit longer. At least the BX is on the road so I can run around in something interesting in the meantime.

 

Out of interest, do you have any figures for a professionally rebuilt engine? The place who I went to reckoned on around £1200, assuming bore hone/crank polish rather than rebore/regrind. I haven't added it up, but guessing it'll be over half that in parts.

[Bren]

Parts for a full rebuild between £5-700 depending on where you shop.

 

Six or seven years ago I was quoted £250 + vat for a crank regrind and new shells - this is where many people balls up - they wil leave the bottom end and just do the top end.

 

The valve gear tells you a lot - if its covered with black sludge then it needs a rebuild.

[panhard65]

If it was mine I would just stick a cam in it and see how it is. You should be able to change the cam without taking the lump out as long as you can get the front pulley and chain cover off. When I did my Range Rover years ago I just pulled the Rad out and there was room to get the cam out.

[Squire_Dawson]

The only things you will need to have done professionally are the crankshaft, cylinder bores and cylinder heads. Bore honing, block cleaning and crank polish cost me well under £100 for a Morris Minor engine IIRC. An unleaded conversion for an A Series was £175, so with twice the number of cylinders possibly £300? Hope this helps, some firms will quote expensive prices if they don't want to do the job.

[mat_the_cat]

If it was mine I would just stick a cam in it and see how it is. You should be able to change the cam without taking the lump out as long as you can get the front pulley and chain cover off. When I did my Range Rover years ago I just pulled the Rad out and there was room to get the cam out.

 

That was my first thought, but there is metalwork in the way unfortunately. So the engine has to come at least partly upwards to slide the cam out - can't tilt the engine enough until it's lifted slightly so the sump clears the crossmember. Which requires gearbox removal. And I figure that if I'm taking it out, I  might as well do everything I can (I reckon it's probably a keeper now...)

[mat_the_cat]

I've bitten the bullet now! And purchased a shiny new engine stand...only £35 so I'm not expecting (or getting!) top quality, but it should be up to the job once or twice.

 

 

Then made a start on the engine; I ran it up to temperature for the last time so I could drain the oil more easily, and it also helped with softening coolant hoses etc.

 

 

I thought I would take off the inlet manifold first, both for making the engine more manoeuvrable and also to take a look inside. Nearly there now. Valley gasket is the old-style tin type, which aren't renowned for making a great seal so will be swapping to a composite type.

 

 

Here you can see what a good fit the transmission tunnel is for the bellhousing and R380 'box. Although the top bolts are somewhat awkward to access!

 

 

And this is what greeted me after taking off the rocker covers and valley gasket:

 

 

I would say that's indicative of an engine in poor health, although going by Google images not as bad as it could be! Certainly compared to the green Discovery after around 140k miles, it looks a hell of a lot worse!

 

[chaseracer]

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/ls9-sc-v8-crate-engine-19244099

 

 

[Skizzer]

^ Wonder if that'll fit in a Rancho? Maybe not. Probably go in a Vauxhall Victor though...

[mat_the_cat]

I was amazed at the price of a crate Chevy small block on that linked site - £2k (plus the VAT) is a lot cheaper than a Rover V8! 290 bhp too, albeit from a heavier lump.If I was doing it all over again...

[Rocket88]

Chevy is also a bit smaller.........................although heavier.

[mat_the_cat]

I'm really regretting a decision I made a few years ago though - I used to work at QH and they had a brand new, never run RV8 block and heads as part of a water pump test rig. My boss agreed to swap for a scrap engine, and my plan was to build the new lump into a nice engine. Sadly finances got in the way, so I had to sell it to help pay bills.

 

ARRRRGH! I stumbled across some old photos today, just to rub my nose in it!

 

 

 

Oh well  I don't even know what capacity it was, as the engine number was just EXP S50.

 

Not too far from getting the engine out now - just manifolds and oil pipework to remove, and separate it from the gearbox.

[Jifflemon]

What did the original V8 come out of?

 

Are you just swapping the cam out or going whole hog on it?

[mat_the_cat]

It cam out of a 1980 Rage Rover, but it wasn't the original engine. Block is SD1 from the number, but the front cover is pre-'76 RR. Who knows what internals it has but hope the pistons aren't super low compression. I'll do whatever is needed while it's out - seems sensible to do as much as possible.

[fordperv]

If they are super low compression could you perhaps add a supercharger or a turbo for maximum laughs

[mat_the_cat]

I took the rocker assemblies off yesterday, so I can assess them for wear. First impressions aren't too bad, but I'll need to clean them to make sure oil/sludge isn't masking any free play. When I took them off there appeared to be an oil/water emulsion dripping down from them, which is a puzzle seeing as I've noticed no other signs of water in the oil.

 

 

 

Still trying to look on the bright side of things, taking the engine out has made me notice a couple of other things - firstly with the new uprated alternator it seems capable of supplying more current than the old single power cable connection should be carrying:

 

 

In the original application the charging output is split over two wires, but with the Stellar wiring only having the one, that's all I used. No problem with the old 45 amp alternator, but this is capable of almost double that.

 

I also noticed that the oil temperature sender was contacting the front anti-roll bar when both wheels are off the ground. I've used an adaptor threaded into the oil pump casting, so may look to re-tap the housing and mount the sender directly.

 

#

 

I've just bought a load of paraffin for degreasing this evening; one of the benefits of living round here is you can still buy it by the litre at some petrol stations. 15 litres for £8

[mat_the_cat]

Had a bit of time and a lull in the rain this afternoon, so the engine is now out!

 

 

I actually managed to leave the gearbox in place, as if I jacked it up until it hit the transmission tunnel, I had just enough room to slide the engine (minus crank pulley and water pump) forwards and the sump *just* cleared the crossmember. With a helper lifting the bonnet almost vertical I was able to leave it in place, so it was a fairly straightforward removal. A lot easier than getting it in initially! That was with an ancient hand-cranked engine hoist, so raising and lowering it took several minutes...

[dollywobbler]

That pic makes it look like you had a transverse V8. 

[Pete-M]

Rover V8s can hide camshaft wear better than most engines. They just lose power gradually until there's none left.

 

I'd advise the 3.9 EFI camshaft as a replacement. More power, more torque, more mpg and cheap as chips. Don't go for an uprated Kent etc cam, every time I've fitted one of those they ruin the driveability without increasing power enough to compensate for the downside. Also, Rhodes lifters don't work well in Rover V8s.

[mat_the_cat]

Have you (or anyone else) had experience of the Piper 270 cam? That's what I had on my wishlist back in  the day, and would seem to be a reasonably mild upgrade so as not to spoil driveability. I was going to go for genuine LR lifters - what I've heard from many sources is that pattern ones are a bad idea.

 

The rockers seem to be in very good condition actually - barely any detectable play once degreased. Which is a good thing, as (again what I've read) it seems like a lot of the pattern ones allow too much oil to spill past, flooding the top end with oil. And OE are £30 each!

[Pete-M]

My SD1 Vitesse had an uprated camshaft, which I think was a Hurricane or summat. It had Rhodes lifters to supposedly improve driveability but it really didn't do much to improve power and they didn't half clatter sometimes. It would rev higher than a standard Rover V8 but although that sounds like a good thing it really did begin to get rough at high revs. So rough that I rarely used the extra poke the cam allegedly delivered and spent far too much time cursing the lack of low rev grunt caused by the sporty cam.

 

You know the lovely low down grunt the V8 has? Say goodbye to that with a sporty cam. The 3.9 EFI cam will up the poke without removing low down grunt.

 

I fitted roller rockers to one RV8 I built, if memory serves me right Volvo Amazon roller rockers fit the RV8 rocker shafts. More lift, better control of lifter preload and better quality rockers. Factory RV8 rockers aren't the finest things known to man, but they rarely break. The Volvo jobs were lovely little cast jobs which looked like they'd withstand armageddon in comparison.

[danthecapriman]

I (somehow!) missed a big chunk of this thread so been reading it back over the last couple of days.

Fantastic work with the engine. The Stellar looks a beauty too. I bet it raised a few eyebrows when it pulled up or pulled away, especially with the 1.6 badge still on the back!

 

You have my sympathy with your engine, having had my own V8 related troubles, very similar to yours with my yank.

Fwiw your doing the right thing pulling it out and doing it properly. My Ford big block was caked in the same black gunge inside before it had a rebuild and that was pretty seriously worn both on the top end and bottom end.

I think it's best to do the lot instead of just trying to do it on the cheap, at least then you know it's done and done right.

[Pete-M]

Something which does make Rover V8s fun is lightening the flywheel. In the Stellar it'll still pull like it should, but it'll respond quite a bit more quickly than with the huge Range Rover job. It'll also have the bonus of sounding gorgeous when blippage applied.

 

10.5 P6 pistons, 3.9 cam, decent ignition and it'll be pushing 190 bhp. Don't go mad with the heads, 10.5 P6 ones are all you need on standard carbs. Valves are big enough as they are, go bigger and they start being a sod at low revs as the gas speeds are loooooow. They just turn horrible. Great in a track day TVR. Pig in a road car.

[mat_the_cat]

Ah, I'd actually been having second thoughts about the flywheel! My logic, rightly or wrongly, is that the quicker the throttle response, the more likely traction is to be the limiting factor - more so given I'm running a 3.44:1 rear axle compared to the 3.09:1(?) of the SD1. So I might be glad of a big heavy flywheel to slug the response a little, especially in the lower gears. From what I remember it's an car flywheel, so a bit lighter than the RR item.

 

Anyway, I had to go out and buy a 34mm deep socket today to undo the rather strange crank pulley bolt:

PTO anyone?

 

Once that was done I could start stripping it all down - so far everything has come undone without a hitch.

 

Pushrod stand:

 

Heads off and looking like the signs of HGF on couple of the pots:

 

 

Genuine Rover HG!

 

With parts of this engine being early (pre-'76) I was a little bit worried about the heads, but happily they turn out to be the later, big valve style so no need to fit larger valves I don't think.

 

Camchain is a little slack!

 

 

And one of the cam lobes has lost its newness somewhat:

 

The thing I'm most concerned about is one of the bores though. Generally they look in good condition, with no step at the top of the ring travel. But one of them has this nasty looking score mark

 

I can't catch my fingernail in it, and can barely feel it with a fingertip so am hoping it will just hone out without the need for a rebore.

[dollywobbler]

Eesh. Glad it's not catching a nail, so you may be in luck. The Dyane had similar but it was a nail catcher. Bit easier to sort out on a Dyane though...