Good cars ruined by bad design.

[Squire_Dawson]

My unkell always said to me that a good example of poor automobile design was the seatbelts on the Reliant Scimitar. Something like you had to keep the door open in order to reach the belt from behind, I don't know, but it was evidently bad enough to stick in his mind.

 

Shite seats made of MDF board with a bit of cloth stretched over them on modern cars.

Thick bastard screen pillars on modern cars which are downright dangerous in the amount of road-view they obscure.

90-inch alloys and low-profile tyres, funnily enough also on modern cars.

[Squire_Dawson]

^

 

Edited because I remembered my Uncle saying about having the door open on the Scimitar to reach the seat belts. I'm pretty sure that was it.

[CortinaDave]

Mondeo diesel DMFs

 

Saab sludge issues

 

Calibra porous cylinder heads

 

Rover putting the ECU on the 75 in the plenum chamber then making it a water trap

 

Cougar sunroofs all broken by 6 months old

 

Alfa Sud great car but built from tinfoil

 

Cortina void bushes

 

Marina dash centre facing the PASSENGER

 

All of the above a result of truly shit decisions

[twosmoke300]

2.2 chain driven vauxhall motor

[red5]

Not really a problem unless you have a pedantic MOT tester but Corsa b 3drs always seem to crack on the body swage line just behind the doors.

 

That really does seem to be hit and miss - not all do it, and some really leggy ones I have known didn't.

 

Not that I'm not pedantic you understand...honest.

[Cavcraft]

I bloody hope they all don't do it, mine's in at the MOT station at the moment!

[Taff]

Honda Accord speakers made of tinfoil and Primula. I did 100,000 miles in two years in one and had the drivers door speakers changed 3 times under warranty. While I'm on that topic, can I add vehicle techs who use  a computer to diagnose a fault, then tell you there isn;t one and refuse to have a quick test drive with you as "the computer clearly states that there isn't a fault, Sir"

 

Ford Capri stereo. Why that shape? what were they thinking?? It means that virtually ever dash has been cut for an OEM stereo.

 

XJS in-board brake pads. very clever. Shall I pay through the nose or cut a FOGB hole in my boot floor?

[Hawkeyethenoo]

All Vauxhalls for being shyte, including the Vivas, Royales and Omegas what I have owned. 

[Richard]

What shape is a Capri stereo? Isn't it just the standard DIN-D slot?

[drum]

Things I have noticed-

 

Polo 6n2 have badly designed door locks/ handles meaning even a touch of frost leaves them frozen up and inoperable. They also have pedal boxes made of cheddar.

 

Mitsubishi L200 have steering box with a short life.

 

LR should have learned to build onto a galvanised chassis to begin with to save us having to change them later.

 

Exhaust heat shields made out of recycled coke tins will fall off after a maximum of 5 years.

 

Whoever designed the drain channels on a disco was a mong.

[Lankytim]

My old Audi 100 used to snap door handles in cold weather. I replaced every one aleast once and had to scour breakers to get a steady stock. The doors often froze shut in frosty conditions due to the weird external door seal too.

[Volksy]

It still does. Just replaced the rear two for the MOT.

Thankfully they're now available in Poland on Ebay for a couple of quid.

[Honey Badger]

Honda accord 6th gen auto box lottery, when will 2nd gear clutch devour it's own friction material, no one knows!

 

 

It will however be well before the rest of the car is anywhere near slightly tired

[Des]

What shape is a Capri stereo? Isn't it just the standard DIN-D slot?

The correct shape. o i==i o

 

It's the square ones that are wrong, too damn easy to steal.

[dieselnutjob]

when I had a Passat the door would freeze closed in the winter.  This was much improved by wiping silicone grease (from a plumbers merchant) onto the door seals.

 

It also suffered from a pivot pin that would fall out of the door handle, and which I used to find in the bottom of the door.  I managed to drill a hole into the metal of the handle and put a self tap screw in over the end of the pin so that it couldn't fall out and they never did after that.

[Bren]

The best example I can think of is the six cylinder engine fitted to the Rover SD1.

 

It's faults are down to deficiencies in design and development.

 

Don't get me wrong, when new they were hailed as being smoother than anything on offer from ford/vauxhall/bmw. The car should have been the saviour of BL, but pants quality meant it never happened.

 

Unfortunately even well maintained examples just died - everybody thinks they only suffer from seized cams, however some had ring/bore problems, others suffered from knocking bottom ends. I bought a B reg example for its shell as its 2300 motor was absoloutely fooked - loads of blue smoke and noise. My dad bought a 4 year old example in 1985 but had to get rid three years later becuause one plug was constantly fouled with oil.

 

So many 2300/2600 SD1's ended up with V8's because theengine's reliability was dreadful.

[dangerousdave]

a few I can think of

 

weber twin choke carbs on fords the carbs themselves were great but the push fit brass fuel pipe union which could come out was the cause of a few engine fires

 

mk1 escort 2 door opening rear windows glued to the hinges great when it was new but 30 years on you close the door and the rear window falls out and smashes

 

citroen c3 Picasso auto boxes with the worst changes ever if driving at a normal pace car lurches when changing gear and dosent change down when it should

 

range rover classic 4 door rear legroom only fit for tiny children hence why they brought out the lse an extra few inches where it was needed and the roof gutter drain holes positioned on the corner so if its raining the water pours on your leg as your getting in which is not great when you consider it was a high end luxury car at the time 

[Ghosty]

but pants quality meant it never happened.

Yep - they just shat themselves and that was that.

[oman5]

The best example I can think of is the six cylinder engine fitted to the Rover SD1.

 

It's faults are down to deficiencies in design and development.

 

Don't get me wrong, when new they were hailed as being smoother than anything on offer from ford/vauxhall/bmw. The car should have been the saviour of BL, but pants quality meant it never happened.

 

Unfortunately even well maintained examples just died - everybody thinks they only suffer from seized cams, however some had ring/bore problems, others suffered from knocking bottom ends. I bought a B reg example for its shell as its 2300 motor was absoloutely fooked - loads of blue smoke and noise. My dad bought a 4 year old example in 1985 but had to get rid three years later becuause one plug was constantly fouled with oil.

 

So many 2300/2600 SD1's ended up with V8's because theengine's reliability was dreadful.

I'd go with that. I had a couple of them, my 2300 got to 128000 miles reliably before I sold it still running fine, my 2600 got to approx 170,000 (that engine went into three of my sd1s over the years. it was unkillable) whilst a very smart looking 2600 vanden plas I bought as a non-running project had only 46k on the clock, one company owner from new with FSH and it had already seized its cam. (this was to be the 3rd recipient of the aforementioned 2600 engine)

Typical Leyland inconsistency. get a good one and its VERY good, get a bad one and it'll shit itself very quickly. 

The 2300 with its shorter stroke was a lovely sweet free revving lump that would rival a BMW six for smoothness. 2600 a bit coarser but in manual form pretty quick and potentially economical. I want another one.

[derskine]

Fuel injection and electronic ignition were well established by the mid 80s.

Personally, I prefer carbs. They do gasify liquid fuels, exactly what is needed to operate an internal combustion engine.

Injection systems do no such thing and are therefore a compromise. 

 

I much prefer carbs myself.

When something goes wrong with EFI it's a nightmare to find out whats wrong without a fault reader, a carb you usually just know whats wrong with it and can sort it fairly easily without having to buy new sensors etc.

Also easier to tune in my opinion by just swapping jets/chokes

I find fuel injection has to run perfectly or it won't run, since you can't adjust the idle etc.

[Taff]

What shape is a Capri stereo? Isn't it just the standard DIN-D slot?

 

 

The correct shape. o i==i o

 

It's the square ones that are wrong, too damn easy to steal.

 

this is a pic of a Mk3 Capri dash, with the odd shaped hole for the stereo

 

 

hence why they are always hacked about to get a decent after market stereo in there. It's not like the OEM was cutting edge...

[garethj]

I want to see one single post-1986 designed car that isn't one big exercise in bad design.

 

I don't know much about new cars, but here's a few:

 

Old Passat, transverse engine to get more interior space which they achieved in spades, it's like a stretch limo in the back and even the boot is huge.  Quite aerodynamic too and fuel efficient apart from the 16V ones

 

Lotus Elise.  An excellent idea from Lotus to try and get a chassis which was cheap to build with their limitations of annual build quantity.  Also using a cheap engine and light weight.  In the picture there's some knob-head who's entirely missing the point of a mid engined car

 

Honda Insight.  It's like they looked at the Ro80 and said "we can build something like that now, something that looks so modern compared to normal cars"

 

There will always be bits of bad design, every car has a weak point.  But that was always the case if I remember rightly

[HillmanImp]

My old Audi 100 used to snap door handles in cold weather. I replaced every one aleast once and had to scour breakers to get a steady stock. The doors often froze shut in frosty conditions due to the weird external door seal too.

 

I never had any problems with that when I had it but did break a door handle by being aggressive so they are a bit flimsy as I IS WEAK.

 

Volksy replaced one the rear handles recently IIRC as it was fucked. Typically when I dug round all the spares theis was the one that I did not have. However I managed to source a brand new one from Poland for £10 which I think was a bit of a bargain compared to the £50 VW wanted to charge.

 

The doors always freeze shut on the red Audi in winter. And the locks. Really quite annoying not being able to get into the car unless its through the boot which then sets off the alarm.  

[Station]

Electric mirrors on most cars - they mostly seem to not work (never had a Vauxhall with working mirrors).

[M'coli]

I don't know much about new cars, but here's a few:

 

Old Passat, transverse engine to get more interior space which they achieved in spades, it's like a stretch limo in the back and even the boot is huge.  Quite aerodynamic too and fuel efficient apart from the 16V ones

For the estate, the rear suspension was a disaster.  The intrusion into the load bay meant it wouldn't take a chest of drawers in the back that comfortably fitted into a Metro with the seats down.

[garethj]

Funny you should mention the estate, we had one as a family car for 2 years and never found it short of space but we were only carrying normal luggage and the most massive pram (you do that kind of thing for your firstborn, the later kids get a second hand collapsible Woolworths pushchair)

 

As I said, no car is perfect but that Passat was probably the last VW that was really well made, a reputation they've done nothing for since 1990

[dollywobbler]

Electric mirrors on most cars - they mostly seem to not work (never had a Vauxhall with working mirrors).

 

Incredibly, they still work on the Discovery! The heating elements work too. GR12 4 Winter! They work on the Sirion too, but appear not to be heated. Annoying.

 

I keep forgetting how tremendous the 1988 Passat was. Great looking cars that have all but disappeared. Never did get on with the facelift but can confirm that rear legroom shames many a limousine.

[Peter Patina]

As a sometimes bus-shiter, in which sphere of dervliness the difference between a warm shed and a cold one is everything, I'm very mindful of heating.

 

Chodwise then:

 

P12 Primera's heater controls accessed through a menu on the showroomtastic LCD: <ENTER> consult screen, <PRESS 3> scroll through options<PRESS, PRESS, PRESS> consult screen again<BACK><Switch off aircon><switch it back on again immediately as windscreen now obscured by film of grey mist> find button for demister, find rag, wipe film of water from windscreen <ENTER> consult screen <HIT> bollard.

 

Pugo 405 GTDT "climate" control, relying on servo-motors to perform the arduous task of opening and closing the heating valve which, when working, they do every few seconds. Invariably, these fail in whichever is the wrong position for the season only to fix themselves the other way once the equinox has passed.

 

Any car that doesn't let you have unheated air from the central vents at the same time as heat on your feet.