Shite bus ownership - gen me up

[Lankytim]

What was the big issue with bendys then? I heard they used to self combust, I take it they also don't like tight bends?

[Pillock]

Yeah there were a couple of instances of BendyBusBBQ and they're not suited to the streets of London Town.

Look at anywhere they're successful, and they get used out of town on park and rides or airport runs. They just jam inner cities up and create more problems than they solve. I think also there were a couple of instances of cyclists getting squished which didn't help their rep.

 

If only there was another way of increasing space available on public transport. How about.... i dunno.... two buses, one atop the other. Call it a decker double or something. If only that existed and was reliable and convenient.

 

The ones I snapped are stored at Bruntingthorpe, presumably waiting till depreciation makes them next to worthless and suitable only for recycling into bean cans. Most of them are in London colours, but there's dozens and dozens of them.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

This thread prompted me to look at old bus pictures and the sort I'd want if I was determined to finish my marriage off completely, buying a 30 or 40 foot long heap of oxidising aluminium and puke stained moquette would be more effective than shagging both her sisters on that front.

Anyway I found a picture of the actual buses I used to go to school on! Thought I should share the place I spent 3 hours every ( well most) weekday from 1975 to 1980

 

.

[atlantean]

A couple of points about Shite bus ownership....

 

You can drive a bus over 30 years old on a car license, BUT you really should get some lessons first

Unless you have a full PCV, an O license, class 6 MOT etc you cannot operate for "Hire or Reward"

 

I'm involved with about 16 buses which are owned by /loaned to a group of us, with a bus shared ownership is a great idea, split the costs, double the muscle for repairs and share the long drives.

 

Older Leylands are ace, Atlanteans and Leopards are probably the most realistic choice for an Autoshiter. Older PDR Atlanteans just run and run, there's very little to go wrong. Nationals are good, but avoid Mk1 examples with the 500 engine, they have a very bad reputation. Our National has the L11 (souped up 680) and is a reliable old tub, also sounds ACE. Olympians are good, but the gearbox electrics are complex and need a specialist when things go wrong (miles of wire and a early 80s electronics). Some jobs are very easy, changed the starter motor on a PDR Atlantean recently, dropped off with a trolly jack 5 mins, refitted in 10 mins with a pal helping to lift it. Changed the air bag on an Olympian once, 10-15 min job, power steering pump on an Oly turned out to easier than a car due to being able to access from the n/side engine hatch. MOTs at VOSA are a lottery, one local test station is ACE, friendly examiners are a realistic attitude, the other is awful and will fail old buses on items that are not testable at their age.

 

You'll need to find somewhere to park, there are a few bus museums in the UK, but expect to pay £60+ per month, farms are also an option.

 

Recovery is very expensive if you croak, you need insurance. In general with older buses things are less complex than cars, but everything is bigger and heavier. Look carefully at coaches, the bodies are often about as structural as greenhouse and may be very rotten. Service buses are a safer bet.

 

For massive shite points aim for a Bedford VAL or anything made by Seddon- but to win buy a Volvo Ailsa.

 

If you're serious go for it, it's a lot of fun. Consider getting involved with an existing preservation group/museum first as the advice and contacts can be invaluable.

 

Two projects.....

1) Get a 70s coach (Plaxton FTW) paint it and trim it in brown and beige and present as Shite Coaching and turn up at bus rallies

2) Get a half cab and paint it in "Fulchester Corporation Transport" livery complete with Read the VIZ adverts.

[barefoot]

I'm astonished at how little they do to the gallon.

I thought a big lazy diesel and a bit of a camping interior and no passengers would get you 25mpg on a run.

[oman5]

Old technology engines, power sapping torque converters, ten tons of dead weight and the aerodynamics of a brick means mpg is not going to be wonderful. IIRC something like a Bedford VAS or PJK might get 20 mpg. 

[Inspector Morose]

A couple of points about Shite bus ownership....

 

You can drive a bus over 30 years old on a car license, BUT you really should get some lessons first

Unless you have a full PCV, an O license, class 6 MOT etc you cannot operate for "Hire or Reward"

 

I'm involved with about 16 buses which are owned by /loaned to a group of us, with a bus shared ownership is a great idea, split the costs, double the muscle for repairs and share the long drives.

 

Older Leylands are ace, Atlanteans and Leopards are probably the most realistic choice for an Autoshiter. Older PDR Atlanteans just run and run, there's very little to go wrong. Nationals are good, but avoid Mk1 examples with the 500 engine, they have a very bad reputation. Our National has the L11 (souped up 680) and is a reliable old tub, also sounds ACE. Olympians are good, but the gearbox electrics are complex and need a specialist when things go wrong (miles of wire and a early 80s electronics). Some jobs are very easy, changed the starter motor on a PDR Atlantean recently, dropped off with a trolly jack 5 mins, refitted in 10 mins with a pal helping to lift it. Changed the air bag on an Olympian once, 10-15 min job, power steering pump on an Oly turned out to easier than a car due to being able to access from the n/side engine hatch. MOTs at VOSA are a lottery, one local test station is ACE, friendly examiners are a realistic attitude, the other is awful and will fail old buses on items that are not testable at their age.

 

You'll need to find somewhere to park, there are a few bus museums in the UK, but expect to pay £60+ per month, farms are also an option.

 

Recovery is very expensive if you croak, you need insurance. In general with older buses things are less complex than cars, but everything is bigger and heavier. Look carefully at coaches, the bodies are often about as structural as greenhouse and may be very rotten. Service buses are a safer bet.

 

For massive shite points aim for a Bedford VAL or anything made by Seddon- but to win buy a Volvo Ailsa.

 

If you're serious go for it, it's a lot of fun. Consider getting involved with an existing preservation group/museum first as the advice and contacts can be invaluable.

 

Two projects.....

1) Get a 70s coach (Plaxton FTW) paint it and trim it in brown and beige and present as Shite Coaching and turn up at bus rallies

2) Get a half cab and paint it in "Fulchester Corporation Transport" livery complete with Read the VIZ adverts.

Yup agree with most of that. The best way into bus ownership is through a group but with some, if you think the Volvo Owners Club is bad.... Pheeeew!

 

As VOSA are closing all of their dedicated testing centres now and pushing testing facilities in commercial garages, things can be a bit more of a lottery than before but if you find a good one - stick with it. Were quite lucky up in Brum as there are quite a few competing for business.

 

Choice of vehicles is very personal but as was said, coaches can hide rot like nothing else (70's Plaxtons are just as bad as anything else in my experience - 80's Plaxtons much worse!) I shall never what forget an ex bodybuilder at Burlinghams once said to me as I uncovered yet another rotten bodge on a coach I was repairing for a customer. "We built 'em to last 7 years. It's you stupid fuckers who want 'em to last longer!"

 

500 series in a National? Nah, they're not as bad as the rumors say. Odd? yes but once you get your head around them (Weird National related joke) they're fine. L11s and 680s can leak oil like a good 'un and Gardners, well..... 

 

Ailsa Volvo? Finding one might be a little difficult now, and fuel economy was never their strongest card but they went like the wind and the early mk 1s made the most wonderful scream from the alternator belt.

 

My suggestion for a starter bus? Probably something small and simple like an early Dart. Getting more scarce now but parts are easy to get hold of. Bodies are fairly robust (early Duple or Carlyle ones excepted) and easy to work on. Just because they still look 'modern' doesn't mean that they shouldn't get preserved. The bus preservation movement gets stuck on this time and again. When the early first generation rear engined buses were being scrapped, preservationist were still hell bent on preserving half cabs and so a great swathe of history in public transport is not represented. Also so many interesting buses have been scrapped in preference to a 'London Transport' bus - they say that of the 84 Guy specials sold to London in the 50's, 97 of them have been preserved.

[dollywobbler]

When I was briefly a member of the Leyland National Preservation Group, I found it deeply ironic that members would pour scorn on the Dennis 'Drat' for replacing their beloved Nationals, when the National was responsible for wiping out a wonderful scene of public buses all on different chassis with different bodies. The Dart wasn't the bus of my childhood in quite the same way though.

 

Optare bodied DAFs on the other hand featured quite heavily. This one ended up being a part of my childhood in Birmingham.

 

Thought these were superb buses! 

[Inspector Morose]

Claribels? Bought one of theirs to run at NBB. Was a little 'worn' and so not the most pleasant thing to drive or work on. Also, so I found out, the frame supporting the rear of the bodywork was not as substantial as you would believe. 

[Craig the Princess]

My bus of choice would be the 70s/80s Leyland Titan. Again this is the bus from childhood (along with Leyland Olympians). The last one off the line was on ebay about 18 months ago and when for sub-£2k. Mine would be in original selkent livery as below with the "District" interior.

 

Does anyone know why (if) the were allowed white on black number plates well into the 80s?

[dollywobbler]

Claribels? Bought one of theirs to run at NBB. Was a little 'worn' and so not the most pleasant thing to drive or work on. Also, so I found out, the frame supporting the rear of the bodywork was not as substantial as you would believe.

 

Your Bus. Ran a fleet of them. They lasted into the WMT takeover astonishingly. Wonder if any have made it into preservation?

[brickwall]

Short wheelbase tickle you?

 

[cms206]

Driven a few Deltas, really nice driving machines but those Optare bodies were as soft as shite. Conversely the Ikarus bodies on the same DAF SB220 chassis were much more solid, less pleasant to look at and a good two tonnes heavier.

 

Never driven a nice fully auto Titan; the ones converted to semi auto were much better.

 

davidfowler2000 of this parish has stories about Titans...

 

[Inspector Morose]

Does anyone know why (if) the were allowed white on black number plates well into the 80s?

 

Still are as far as I know but only on stage carriage service. Reading also used them up to the early 90's at least. I think it was one of those rules that just got forgotten about. Everyone else in England just used ordinary (reflective) plates.

 

DW, as far as I know, there are no Your bus DAFs in preservation. 

[Tayne]

Hey Dolly, I've got a Brilliant idea*.

 

Why not buy a Bedford VAL and paint it in the Croker's Luxury Tours colours.

 

 

 

And should you ever have an unwanted car that you're struggling to sell just load it up, take a run through those beautiful sun-kissed* Welsh mountains and let the car go at the appropriate point...

 

 

 

[dollywobbler]

Thought London Transport had the exemption on number plate colour, but don't know why. Perhaps their buses went to Reading afterwards?

 

I'm loving this bus geek talk. 

 

I do like a nice shorty though! Google found this one on this very forum.

 

Presumably from the last time we got all bus geek like.

[brickwall]

I do think a shorty is a good way forward.

[Lankytim]

What happened to all those 1970s coaches that were up for sale from an operator in Wales? £800 a piece iirc. I wanted one desperately, but was banned from getting one. Apparently the inlaws don't want one on their drive

[Micrashed]

 

 

My suggestion for a starter bus? Probably something small and simple like an early Dart. Getting more scarce now but parts are easy to get hold of. Bodies are fairly robust

Rust

More Rust

Still more rust... And this is a 1993 example.

 

 

Be honest, whatever you buy will have some rust.

[dollywobbler]

No idea. That was dangerously close to me but at the time, my other half was about as warm to the idea as yours was. Lewis Rhydlewis IIRC.

 

Anyone know what happened to them?

[AnthonyG]

Darts must be about as cheap as they get, with not being 'old' enough. I seem to remember a unintended acceleration problem that only Private Eye reported on - bus drivers getting blamed/sacked for accidents, usually in bus stops or stations. I guess any potential liability died when Mayflower/TransBus International went bust.

[AnthonyG]

Also there were some incredibly basic looking things built for the military in the 1970s, usually on Ford or Bedford chassis - quite short with about 7/8 rows of seating. There used to be one done out as a mobile cafe on the A487 nr Aberaeon.

[oman5]

Aren't the bendy busses days numbered, I'd imagine they'll be cheap on account of being ridiculous. When you go to fetch one, while your throwing the A frame and trailler board in the boot, chuck in a disc cutter and you can leave that silly tail section in the congestion zone, on its side and set alight preferably.

It'll be interesting to see how much the market values this ex-london example at, considering how much they were new not so long back

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-CITARO-CITY-BUS-ARTICULATED-COACH-LIKE-DOUBLE-DECKER-/121225153252?pt=UK_Minibuses_Buses_Coaches&hash=item1c39950ae4

 

I blame Ken livingstone and would like to think he got a backhander to introduce the stupid bloody things in the first place.

[brickwall]

Will they go abroad perhaps? Bendy buses are despised up here too!

[Inspector Morose]

Pusher:

 

 

 

 

 

Puller:

 

 

[Six-cylinder]

I had a great day yesterday being driven on a private Routmaster bus, 1^st to the Ace Café, then Zig Zaging across London bridges and driving along Oxford Street and Regents street at dusk.  

 

[brickwall]

lucky bugger

[Peter Patina]

Apart from the OMGMPG which is at least 25% worse than a Range Rover, my vote goes to Leopard with a 680. The most sublime exhaust note and in my experience pretty reliable [apart from air-leaks].

 

Leopards can drive beautifully or horribly: as with most buses of their era, no two are alike. The best Leopards I've driven were two of the nicest anything I've driven on the road. An A-road drive, end of shift and released from tiresome passengers, moonlit nicht, side-window cocked open, roll-up on the go, swooping around the gentle bends at 55 playing sweet low Leyland music with the exhaust. Setting off the occasional car-alarm burbling through the sleeping villages all a-twinkle with frost-effect.

 

Bedfords seem to be going for much more money these days. I remember getting 13-14 MPG from the YMTs I had in the 80s but they sounded and drove rubbish. Horrendous brakes, no go and steering that took constant correction to stay in a straight line.

 

If one's decks must be doubled, I vote Atlantean. A high-speed diff gives you 55MPH in an AN68 and you get all the same 680 effects you do in a Leopard only with reduced aerodynamic, passive tree-avoidance and cornering talentz. Fleetlines with Gardners in them used to feel like vibratory slugs to me by comparison. VRs can be nice but don't have the steering-precision of an AN68 or unassisted PDR.

 

Seddon Pennine: Bedford steering with Gardner urge. Less interesting than that sounds.

 

Ford: going deaf for a living. Gears never quite where you left them.

 

Denise Fart; just don't.

 

Volvo B10: ubiquitous... cheap... usually drive well [grudgingly]... sound fairly decent once the silencer's rotted out... but usually fitted with coachly stressed-panel bodywork that's harder to fix when the Meccano underneath oxididises. And they bloody killed Leyland, the bastards.

[Inspector Morose]

If one's decks must be doubled, I vote Atlantean. A high-speed diff gives you 55MPH in an AN68.

Ahem, angle drives change the ratio not the diff. And you can get them to go faster than 55 (Blackpool angle drive in a ex Manchester AN68 - 60+ on the private test track!)

 

Leopards are the best though.

[Peter Patina]

Ahem, angle drives change the ratio not the diff.

 

Rumbled! Yep, I was driving staff, not workshop.