Sold 1981 Austin Princess - [expletives removed]

[fordperv]

what a little bugger showing its displeasure of being roadworthy

[vulgalour]

I feel I was the voice of doom given my last post in this thread, sorry about that.

[Felly Magic]

It's fighting you every step of the way, but you will win. You sure it's not got the spirit of Derek Robinson in it?

[vulgalour]

well it is red...

[philibusmo]

Looking into this, I have the following options for swapping out this displacer:

 

Front Princess/Ambassador displacer

Rear Princess/Ambassador displacer, then cut the bracket off to turn it into a front one.

Front or rear Maxi displacer which is slightly different but does fit, will just give slightly different damping. Not ideal but is a temporary option.

 

Does anyone have any of the above? If a rear Princess displacer, then preferably one with a rotten or otherwise junk bracket so that the displacer can go to some use without the risk of putting a welder to it.

[vulgalour]

Unfortunately, you can't put a rear on the front because the cone is different and the progressive damping therefore different.  Theoretically if you got a pair you could fit a pair of modified rears to the front.  Displacer failure is the biggest nightmare really because spares availability is scant.  Luckily the fronts are easier to replace in every way.

 

If you use Maxi displacers again you'll need a pair as they're rated differently to Princess.

 

Just be thankful you don't have to find Austin 3 Litre displacers.

[philibusmo]

Bollocks, that's rather annoying.

 

So, to amend, does anyone have 1x Princess front displacer or 2x Princess rear displacers or 2x maxi displacers?

[phil_lihp]

What about a spring conversion?  I don't doubt this is fraught with problems but there is a spring conversion kit for the MGF, how much work would be involved if you could find some suitable springs and dampers and fabricate the necessary mounts?  I know the answer will be a whole lot but you never know.

[philibusmo]

More work than I can fit into the next month and a week I expect.

 

I'll work on trying to get a displacer, hopefully one with turn up soon because I will be MEGA DISAPPOINTED if I don't get to drive this any more before I go, or if it turns out to be impossible to sell due to the displacer being busted.

[phil_lihp]

Oh yes, that'd be an issue.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-PRINCESS-AMBASSADOR-FRONT-HYDRAGAS-DISPLACERS-/301287984518?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item462629cd86

 

You can buy them new...£354!  Madness.

[PhilA]

It is insured for such eventuality yes?

Now that you've made the suggestion it isn't.

[philibusmo]

So far, all I have turned up is this:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C557357

 

It's also got a busted front hydragas displacer, but I could nab the good one and then break this one, keeping any useful spares with the red car and flogging more expensive stuff (the brake calipers and the rear displacers mostly)  to pay for the cost of this one before scrapping the rest. It's a fair way away and hasn't had MOT since February so will need to be transported across the county which rather adds to the time, but it is a possibility.

 

Only issues are that I am seriously running out of time before I go and the collection and then breaking and selling this car will waste a fair bit of already quite tight time. Secondly, I don't really have space for a second Princess to be hanging around for more than a few days, so I am as yet undecided.

 

Anyway, I've been calling around my local scrap and breakers yards this morning and while most of them have given me a straight NO on parts, there are two tat might have something in stock, so I'm heading out to see if there is one of these mythical non-fucked front displacers sat there.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I am sure a Princess displaced can be located with a bit of phoning round a few wedge lovers, your problem will be breaking into the circle of those people, its the sort if thing that a few wedgists will have on a shelf 'just in case' after breaking one. Haven't you got any phone numbers vulg??? I'm sure you met a few wedgers in your thread. Doesn't need to be someone who actually has z displacer but someone who might know someone who broke a wedge a while back, that kind of thing. I wish I could help, if you needed a displaced for an 1100 id have one on it's way by UPS tomorrow.

[philibusmo]

Vulgalour has lobbed a wanted advert up on the Leyland Princess forum and the responses have not been what I would describe as helpful.

 

Q: Can anyone help us get a displacer?

A: Try the usual sources.

Q:Can you let me know what the usual sources are?

A: The usual sources don't have stock, so there's no point.

 

Reminds me why as a general rule I really don't get on with single make owners clubs.

 

Todays search has been fruitless, juts turning a couple of MGF displacers and a badly crashed Metro. It's looking more and more likely that the solution to having one broken Princess will be to buy another broken Princess.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yeah I would say someone who give you a speedy sunday morning reply on an obscure one-make forum is extremely unlikely to be of any real help as they will spend their lives farting about on that forum instead of getting out in the real world and doing wedge stuff.

 

Heres a rear one? I wouldnt think twice about lobbing a rear one on the front even if the damping rates are slightly different TBH.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-PRINCESS-AMBASSADOR-OFFSIDE-REAR-HYDROGAS-UNIT/331375409872

[philibusmo]

That is on my watch list. Even though the damping is different, I would quite happily see how it goes.

 

It will need modifying. The bracket needs to be removed for it to fit and I think that the fitting it different for the pipe to connect to, which could lead to a weird and wonderful arrangement of random bits of pluming weaving around the engine bay.

 

I would still prefer a front one, seeing as the current stock of these parts is all that there is ever likely to be, it seems a shame to cannibalise a good rear one to use on the front, especially as the bracket can't really be welded back on without potentially causing a weak point in the displacer which could explode when pumped up.

[Felly Magic]

I know it's a long shot, but give DJ Spall from near Ipswich a bell, they have hoards of old car spares still

 

http://www.djspall.co.uk/

[Pillock]

Disclaimer: As far as I know, these work on magic and goodwill so this is a question rather than a suggestion. However, since you seem to have a better ability than most to sew metal back together with your magic sparkly needle can the original not be repaired?

 

Edit: OK, so now I see it's the diaphram not a metal bit, but is there a way to chop into it, replace non-metal bits and then put it back together again?

[vulgalour]

I have no spare fronts but I think I've got a spare rear.  It's okay but does have some rust damage to the bottom flange of the displacer, this could be carefully trimmed/repaired without affecting the rubber components.

 

Failing that, drop Dugong a message.  There was a guy Dugong tipped me off about who was racing a Princess, I liberated as much as I could from it and was supposed to get back in touch about the displacers on the car and never did because of the shitstorm that was my life at the time.  The car was due to be raced in April, I doubt he kept anything of it afterwards, but that's the only lead I've got.

[vulgalour]

Quoted from the Princess forum on repairing units:

Future of Hydragas

The late Dr. Alex Moulton was well aware of the problems owners of cars with 'his' suspension system may have in the future. During a couple of meetings over the past 10 years he has shown me a possible solution, reaching far further than the simple re-charging of the spheres with Nitrogen.

The re-charging is still a very important step in both keeping the cars in a condition to use or enjoy them, but it also is essential to prolong the life of the Hydragas units.

Regardless of the state of the sphere, the internal diaphragm will always be free of any significant forces, as the pressures on both sides will always be the same as long as there is any amount of Nitrogen left. There is a danger for the diaphragm though when the amount Nitrogen gets very low and the remaining gas cushion gets ever more shallow due to the car being pumped up ever again to keep the ride height correct. At a certain point it cannot be avoided that the diaphragm contacts the rivet that closes the top of the sphere, which may be relatively sharp edged and thus may damage the diaphragm. I do think that most failures of the internal diaphragm are due to the owners keeping the car at the correct ride height with only a marginal amount of Nitrogen remaining. When the car starts to get firm it is safer for the units to actually let the car drop in ride height and not keep it topped up (making it even more uncomfortable to drive, which I know from painful experience!).

From Citroën it is known that regularly re-charged spheres do have a very long life. Also the highly loaded lower diaphragms on Hydrolastic cars are now holding up well at an age of 40-50 years. It is relatively safe to assume that the internal Diaphragms of Hydragas units will have a very long life if the units will be kept sufficiently filled with Nitrogen.

If for any reason the need arises to open the units and have the rubber components replaced, Dr. Alex Moulton developed a concept to close Hydrolastic units again and tested it. Everything considered, the rubber parts may be relative cheap to remanufacture, the metal casings will be very expensive (prohibitive in fact). So the idea of carefully opening, fitting new rubber parts and closing them again does not seem to be unrealistic to me.

Dr. Alex Moulton has put some thought into this issue and came up with a solution that he tried and successfully tested on a Hydrolastic unit. Just as the two flanges on Hydragas units, where the three main parts are pressed together and then the flange is rolled, so that it seals the connection, Hydrolastic units a made by 3 pressed parts, connected by a single rolled flange. When carefully cutting this flange, the unit can be opened.

Dr. Moulton came up with a solution how to close the units again. Three rings where manufactured, practically creating a kind of compression fitting held together with a large captive nut in the place where the original joint was. The ring around the spring unit needs to be split in halves to be able to be fitted, whilst the other ring and the captive nut can be slid over the unit from the displacer end. Tightening these should be done in a hydraulic press similar to the original process. Dr. Moulton actually has had a prototype made and put it into a test bed to check the unit after refitting successfully.

Hydragas units have two of these joints and the fittings needed would need to be designed. A problem that should well have a solution. The design also will need to take care of the dimensions of the fitting space inside the cars. A further problem is caused by the mounting arrangement on the rear for Princess and Allegro cars, which will either need to be modified to take the complete displacer as a removable unit or be considered to be part of the process or re-sealing the units.

If this process is properly executed and costs are shared between Maxi, Princess, Ambassador and Allegro owners (using the same sizes of units), it should be a much cheaper alternative to a change to a completely different system – and – more importantly – should keep the cars as characterful as they are.

Do I need to say that the clubs or individuals should try to keep as many units in store as possible - even the broken ones?

[philibusmo]

The problem with doing that the displacers are pressurised up to some ridiculous pressure like over 300PSI. If you cut it and weld it back up then that introduces a weak point into the body of the displacer, the heat of the welding will also change the properties of the metal around the welded point making it more brittle.

 

Usually there is no chance of the body of the displacer blowing out as the rubber is the weakest point but with new rubber and the weak points added to the sphere you do have the potential to be driving around with a fragmentation grenade sat ready to blow just behind the front bulk head.

 

Cheers for the tip on that breakers Felly, I'll give them a call tomorrow and I'll message Dugong, any lead is worth perusing.

[philibusmo]

I've had a good look at the rear ones and while I would quite happily fit one to the front, I'm not sure that they will actually fit into the space for the hydragas displacers without a big fight. The reason being that the front ones have a threaded connection on the body of the displacer, where the rear ones have a flexible pipe crimped on - now this isn't too much of an issue to actually get it to marry up to the original pipework but I'm not sure if it will be possible to slide the displacer into place with the pipe attached as I don't think the space is big enough.

[philibusmo]

Due to the fall out that this has just caused, this is now for sale for £300 as is, maybe less if you seem like you are going to get it fixed.

 

Good points; it has 12 months MOT and almost all of it works.

Bad points: Its a bit horrible, but is very usable apart from one of the front displacers having busted. Easy Its a very easy fix when you have got old of one, as long as you have a socket big enough for the nut on the top arm and someone to pump the suspension back up.

 

If I manage to get a displacer then it will be for sale for £500.

[Noel Tidybeard]

the big question that the tinternet isnt throwing much light on is what is the difference in the units?

 

from wiki it seems 1978 on maxis used modified princess units??

were none of the systems the same?

how different is the set up on a mgf?

[STUNO]

Vulgalor, look at this, a wedge, 12 months MOT, a slight lean to the left and only 300 pounds.

This would be the perfect buy for you.

[philibusmo]

I think he'd actually make a profit out of me.

[vulgalour]

not after getting it up here I wouldn't!  It's moot anyway, I don't have £300

[oman5]

Unless someone somewhere comes up with a solution I reckon BL hydragas cars are doomed. Coilover conversions are possible, but as the set up has to be custom made it's going to be stupidly expensive.

There has to be a way to split the bottles apart and replace the diaphragm, at the moment the only option is either an unknown quantity used displacer if you can find one which is getting on for 40 years old, or a NOS one, if you can find one, which is also getting on for 40 years old.

It doesn't look good.

[STUNO]

not after getting it up here I wouldn't!  It's moot anyway, I don't have £300

 

I thought you took that very well !

[plasticvandan]

its a shame there isnt more cross over on the parts,i know the aggro club got a huge shipment of nos displacers from austrailia or somewhere daft a few years ago