How expensive is New Shite?

[Bren]

My brother has been giving me his copies of Auto Express to read - I would'nt dream of paying for them, I am not in the slightest bit bothered about the latest Aston,Range Rover or how good the latest winter tyres are - most people cannot afford a second set for winter - they choose between part worn or budget new.

 

One thing I have noticed is how expensive new motors are. The new Kia cee'd sportswagon has a price of £21,095. Yes, you get a seven year warranty, but that is only around £1500 less than the equivalent VW Golf.

 

So much for Kia being a producer of affordable motors. At least the golf has good residuals, not the case for the Kia.

 

A New Ford Fiesta 1.6 Metal has a list price of £16000. This is a car with three doors produced by a mainstream manufacturer.

 

A friend of mine purchased a new fiesta a couple of years back. Six months old, three doors, top of the range. I did'nt enquire how much it cost, however he hinted it was about £17k. I told him that he should have got one in that nice shade of blackcurrant red, he told me that he would have had to have paid another £1k for the privilege.

 

Have the manufacturers got too greedy? My brother worked at Halewood when the built the last escorts there, he told me it cost Ford $800 US to build an escort.Not surprising they are cutting back when you look at the price of their vehicles.

 

As the yanks are fond of saying - go figure!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Most car manufacturers are hardly falling over pots of cash, dont know where this 800$ figure comes from but I call BS on that. Most volume car companies think they are doing well if they make a 3% profit. Look at the vast costs of setting up to make an escort, its mind boggling man.

[ashmicro]

It's not the cost of just making the car (or, indeed anything else). Design, setup, toolmaking etc etc don't come cheap. I also reckon you'd get a fair chunk off the price of that KIA without much trouble.

[CreepingJesus]

If you use the 'scaling up' rule of thumb (i.e., double the numbers for every 10 years you go forward, halve them for every 10 years back) the prices aren't too bad, compared to 20 years ago.

And besides, Kia must realise that they can bump the list price up, as they aren't necessarily seen as cheap runabouts now. It wouldn't help the brand image to sell cheap, but it helps the dealers to appear to be generous..

Maybe.

[R9UKE]

My uncle dropped by today to say he's traded in the Laguna for a Dacia Duster at £14995. That's stonking value when a Kia is £6k more. Still absolute madness handing over £15k for a Dacia but we won't go into that.

[phil_lihp]

I'd disagree, new cars can be decent value for money and I'd use my own Kia as an example. After looking for a decent secondhand small 4x4 I unexpectedly ended up with a brand new C'eed VR7 1.4 which goes well, is light on fuel, well made and has plenty of toys (bluetooth, ipod connection, air con, alloy wheels etc.) and that was with 0% APR - I would not have bought it if not for that. Add to that the 7yr warranty and a very helpful dealer, I'm nearly a year in and very happy. The monthly payments are very low considering what it is and for that I get a car which I can use for my business knowing it's totally reliable, looks professional and has room to carry my gear.

 

In theory I could just as easily have bought a Focus so out of interest I did an online quote to match mine as closely as possible. I would need to get one in white (free on the Kia, £200 extra on the Ford) and I would have to go for the base model with no toys and plastic wheeltrims. Even so, it came out at £3500 more, plus it would only have a 3yr warranty and (if my past experience of friends and relatives with new Fords is still valid) a fair share of niggles and problems.

 

OK, Kia and Hyundai are not the budget brands they used to be, but then again their cars have moved on leaps and bounds. I always swore I would never buy a brand new car and had I not needed it to represent my business, I probably wouldn't have looked twice but it ticked all the boxes and has been superb and (crucially) stress-free.

 

I completely agree it's not the value for money you might get from a £400 1993 Toyota Corolla but for a new car it's not bad.

 

Incidentally, my local shopping centre had a Dacia Duster on display as it turns out a local Mazda (and ex-Rover) dealer is going to start selling them. They could only get hold of a lefthand drive version for the display, it looked hideously misproportioned and was attracting very few glances. Don't these have Renault engines in them? If so that really does put the icing on the cake.

[Split_Pin]

I bought a brand new Chevrolet Aveo last month and it was £10995. A 2k deposit saw me on my way and I still got 0% finance at £153 per month.

 

Its the mid range LT model too to has alloys, cruise control, bluetooth, air con and a decent interior. Its quite a big car too, almost Focus sixzed for what is basically a Fiesta competitor.

 

Ok depreciation will be vertical, but that doesnt bother me as we have no reason to want another. That combined with cheap road tax, no MOT for 3 years and a warranty means its already working out cheaper than the old Vectra. Hopefully I can get it serviced for about £60 at my local garage.

 

Thankfully its for my wife as I get piss bored with stuff that doesnt bugger up every 2nd week.

 

The exhaust is falling off my old Corsa, yay...

[Negative Creep]

Having been bored on occasion I've gone through old brochures and put prices into the historic inflation calculator. It doesn't seem to change that much.

[Junkman]

If you use the 'scaling up' rule of thumb (i.e., double the numbers for every 10 years you go forward, halve them for every 10 years back) the prices aren't too bad, compared to 20 years ago.

And besides, Kia must realise that they can bump the list price up, as they aren't necessarily seen as cheap runabouts now. It wouldn't help the brand image to sell cheap, but it helps the dealers to appear to be generous..

Maybe.

 

So I should take home double of what I made in 2002, which should have been double of what I made in 1992, just to compensate for that.

Oops...

[Justin Case]

I think that this blows the brand new car argument out of the water:

 

http://www.sytnerselect.co.uk/Used-Car- ... GModel=RIO

 

OK, it's the old model so not the ultimate in performance, or style, or anything else for that matter, but it gives dependable and economical family transport (our next door neighbours have one and it seems quite a reasonable means of getting from Ato , and it wouldn't break the bank. Full money back future-shite status guarantee too?

[Cavcraft]

Why the surprise at how Kia are fairly closely priced to a Golf? Just because those over-rated German cars wear a trendy badge sure as hell doesn't make them any kind of yardstick.

£1500 less with a warranty probably three times longer and I'd be willing to bet you get more car, a better built car and just a better car full stop.

[Split_Pin]

TBH that does look like it has everything going for it.

 

The only reason I went for the car I did was that I couldnt get 0% on anything other than brand new.

 

Maybe a £5k Bank loan would have worked out cheaper ....

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

New cars aren't too expensive. Used cars are too cheap (which is both a good thing and a bad thing at the same time).

[Tartan58]

One thing I have noticed is how expensive new motors are. The new Kia cee'd sportswagon has a price of £21,095. Yes, you get a seven year warranty, but that is only around £1500 less than the equivalent VW Golf.

 

You what now?? A year ago we got one a few months old for well under half that - ok the new model is very nice and all and I reckon Kia's are a pretty good car these days but I could think of a lot more to do with 21k than buy a Kia. Let's just hope that badge snobbery means that they depreciate like a stone for those of us who will be buying one used in a few years time.

[AnthonyG]

Isn't the Ceed a Focus sized car? You could get a good spec Mondeo estate for £21k, before you start talking about discounts...

[Justin Case]

TBH that does look like it has everything going for it.

 

The only reason I went for the car I did was that I couldnt get 0% on anything other than brand new.

 

Maybe a £5k Bank loan would have worked out cheaper ....

 

To be fair, the payments aren't too extortionate every month, you will get the benefit of a longer guarantee, tyres etc won't need replacing for a couple of years further down the line, and unlike my mate with his leased Honda, you will eventually own the car, so the downside will be less than a first glance suggests

[Pete-M]

Seems like a lot of coin. Discounts are still available out there.

 

The Skoda I took to Shitefest™ was an Octavia 2.0 TDi 140 SE 'plus'. List price around £19500, which I think is a bit too much. However, decent haggling gets them for nearer to £16500 which makes it a rather sensible buy at posh Fiesta money. Ok, it'll be worth £7500ish when it's three years old with 60k on the clock, but that has always been the way with new cars.

 

Then there's inflation and all that jazz.

 

My XJR in 1994 cost around £50000 which would be £80k now. A new Supercharged XJ lists at £86k and there's a fair bit more to a new one...

The Impreza was £23k in '94 which would be £36,800 now. A new WRX STi one is £33k.

A Mk2 Escort RS2000 Custom in 1979 was around £7.5k, which would be £33,900 now.

 

Also, if you do the backwards trick with inflation, the Skoda above at £19,500 now would have cost £12,500 in 94.

[gtd2000]

Cars are cheaper than ever I'd say!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/picturegalleries/9472161/The-10-cheapest-new-cars-on-sale.html#?frame=2308811

 

 

1. Suzuki Alto

 

Price: £5,995

 

Suzuki's latest VAT-free offer means that you can pick up its no frills Alto city car for just £5,995. It might not be as sophisticated as the leaders in this class, the VW Up, Skoda Citigo and Seat Mii, but just look at that price...

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

You can't buy THAT Alto for 6 grand. The extras on it may cost more than £6k alone.

[gtd2000]

You can't buy THAT Alto for 6 grand. The extras on it may cost more than £6k alone.

 

I'm sure that picture is of a much higher model of course and not representaive of the 6K model.

[Cavcraft]

It doesn't really matter if it's that Alto or not, six grand seems a decent price for a brand new car to me, regardless whether it has alloys and metallic paint or not.

 

Also, according to teh INTERWEBZ they qualify for free road tax and do 65mpg. I know Autoshite is sometimes known for knocking economy and tax bands, but at that price and with that tax group and economy, surely the Suzuki is an absolute bargain?

[Pillock]

How many people actually buy new though? And how many people have new cars, provided by an employer?

I was having this conversation yesterday when a guy I work with was asking after my new car... he's got a similar, but slightly older Focus. He remarked that his was first owned by Ford as a company car. Mine too, it was registered to the fleet office in Dagenham. My mum hasn't bought a new car since 1985, but had a new car every thee years thanks to her job. Mrs Pillock's Touran is on it's second owner, first one being a lease company. Her old Focus was an ex-hire car. My old Leon was first registered to the Environment Agency as a company car. The list goes on.

 

Maybe this rise in the amount of cars being bought by companies is responsible for the rise in prices - companies always negotiate a discount but then don't stress about it, so if the price is slightly higher to start with then they get their discount, the car manufacturer gets their money, and Mr Smith gets his new reg plate.

 

Also, check out equipment levels - customers demand electric this and powered that even on the most basic models. That Kia C'eed example, yes it's a Kia for £16k or whatever but sit in it..... the one I looked at alongside the Focus had heated leather, power windows all round, climate, cruise, fancy stereo, massive alloys etc. That's why it's not ten grand with a tank full of fuel.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

That's a very good point. I hired a new Ibiza from Hertz a couple of weeks ago (actually a friend did, but he's got no credit card so I had to put him down as a mere additional driver). Crappy 3-cylinder engine, black plastic door handles, but cruise control fitted!

[splatthefat]

I bought my one and only new car 5 years ago, it was a Fiat Doblo 1.4 Dynamic (although what was dynamic about it I don't know), came with alloys, aircon, etc. The list price was £11,500 o.n.o but with some shopping around I managed to bag one for £8,350, with free metallic paint thrown in. Had it for 4 and a half years/44,000 miles and and threw tyres and servicing at it and it never let me down, even saw 102mph on the gps once (on a private road), the 'booked' top end was 94....

 

I only sold it as my boat (also now sold) needed major surgery to make it a viable seller, and got £2,100 for it, which I figured wasn't too bad.

 

CJ

[Spiny Norman]

I bought my one and only new car 5 years ago, it was a Fiat Doblo......for £8,350..... Had it for 4 and a half years/44,000 miles ....and got £2,100 for it...

 

OK, so the 'new car -vs- old shitter' argument will never be resolved and there are always going to be points in favour of each, but to me the idea of spunking six grand in depreciation alone in under 5 years and only having a Fiat Doblo to show for it is sheer waste......

I feel cheated if I lose more than a couple of hundred quid when I sell a car on after a year or two.

 

I've done the new car thing years ago when I needed one for my business and was able to write down the losses against tax, but even then the fact I lost £3-4k after 2 years in a Clio horrified me.

[hairnet]

sandero and keep for 10 years - done

[oman5]

I bought my one and only new car 5 years ago, it was a Fiat Doblo......for £8,350..... Had it for 4 and a half years/44,000 miles ....and got £2,100 for it...

 

OK, so the 'new car -vs- old shitter' argument will never be resolved and there are always going to be points in favour of each, but to me the idea of spunking six grand in depreciation alone in under 5 years and only having a Fiat Doblo to show for it is sheer waste......

I feel cheated if I lose more than a couple of hundred quid when I sell a car on after a year or two.

 

I've done the new car thing years ago when I needed one for my business and was able to write down the losses against tax, but even then the fact I lost £3-4k after 2 years in a Clio horrified me.

 

^^This +1

[gtd2000]

The best options are more tricky but has worked for me on numerous occasions:

 

Buy a popular car in shit (but easily fixable condition) and bring it up to standard for not a lot of outlay, run around in it for a couple of years and sell it for the same money.

 

Buy a car from a motivated seller at a knock down rate, use it then flog it for possibly more money.

 

Buy a car at auction and sell it for more money after using it.

 

Granted there can be a fair amount of luck involved when trying to achieve the above but I've come out ahead and not been close to asking "top book" prices.

 

Cars that worked well for me were:

 

Corolla AE86 - purchase price £995 - sold for £2300 (had a respray @ £250 and some new wheel arch trims from Fensport for about £40 each and a £25 leather steering wheel from the TOC.)

Hyundai Pony - purchase price £240 - sold for £800 (I stripped a 575 mile Pony at Thomsons in Galashiels for loads of new bits for around £125) drove for two years and 33,000miles)

Hyundai Coupe - purchase price £650 - sold for £1650 (but did have new 17" wheels & tyres @ 310, lowering springs @ £40, replacement wing £55, 2 x starters totalling £35 - was an imobiliser issue!!)

Proton Persona 1.3Si - Purchase price £550 at auction - sold for £1100 on Gumtree (was immaculate!)

Proton Persona 1.3Si - Purchase price £425 - sold for 500 Euro 2 years later but actually made £900 profit based on my mileage allowance!!!

Honda Civic - stolen recovered from Thomsons £650 - sold for £1300 (book price was £2300)

 

Over in the USA my GF's mother was looking for a car - we found a 1999 Ford Escort and paid US$4000 (book was US$6600) for it - this was years ago - sold it after 4 years for U$$3400 which was a very low price. I'm pretty sure they could have got US$4000 for it but they'd bought another car (Honda Fit/Jazz) and just wanted shot of it.

[Mr Lobster]

sandero and keep for 10 years - done

 

^ This.

 

I'm seriously thinking that a new Duster might be a sensible buy if kept for upto ten years until it is essentially worthless.

[Spiny Norman]

sandero and keep for 10 years - done

 

^ This.

 

I'm seriously thinking that a new Duster might be a sensible buy if kept for upto ten years until it is essentially worthless.

 

That is the one way that buying new truly makes financial sense IMO. Buy something cheap, look after it and keep it till it drops.

My mate's Dad passed his driving test in the early 60s and since then has owned a B reg Triumph Herald, a K reg Renault 6, a W reg Renault 5, a G reg Peugeot 205 and now owns an 03 plate 206.

He buys new and drives it till it simply cannot go any further, then he scraps it and buys a new one.