My XJ6: decision made (p4)

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Holy shit, those rear brakes really ARE a bastard to get to, even off the car!

 

 

Iirc people used to cut a hole in the floor to access them then weld it back up again afterwards.

 

Almost. I did one once, cut two round holes in the boot floor above each rear handbrake caliper, with a tank cutter and after cleaning up the burrs, fitted a circular plate over each with four self tappers. I seem to recall using the black circular blanking plates from the boot floor of some old relic, the ones you remove to get at the fuel level sender. It all made for a neat 'factory' look as well, and sorting the handbrake was much easier. Changing the main caliper pads is easy enough with the axle in. Sadly you can't do this on an XJ-S because the fuel tank sits across the boot.

 

 

What's the plan with the bodywork? A proper 'new panels' resto or a visit from the P40 fairy and a blow over?

[Skizzer]

What's the plan with the bodywork? A proper 'new panels' resto or a visit from the P40 fairy and a blow over?

Good question - bit of both I think. New front wings and rear valence, the rest will probably be smallish patches. I'll get XjRestos to do it cos they'll do a proper job of cutting out the grot and neatly welding in new metal - their website has loads of pics of stuff they're working on, including fixing some previously bodged up horror stories. I don't want to wob it up and become one of those.

 

I might get the rear end done now (along with replacing the holed o/s fuel tank) and the front after the summer, otherwise it won't look shite enough for Cholmondeley Also I may be feeling too skint after the current round of fettling.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Lovely, nice to see one put to rights.

 

That Regency red V12 Coupe looked a mammoth task.

[Skizzer]

I think they've got two red XJ Coupes around at the moment. The lovely-looking one just back from a bare shell respray is a long-term project and there's another on a lift that came in looking very shiny but was massively rotten underneath. Some arsewipe had covered over rust holes you could get your foot through in various structural sections with underseal, wob and even cardboard, plus a couple of stitch welds that looked like they had dripped down from the fourth floor. The floor pan didn't even meet the sill. I don't know the full story but it sounds like someone got royally ripped off on that one.

 

When I got robbed at work a few years ago the thieves made off in SK06 ODA - a silver Octavia. Not sure if the car was stolen or on false plates, but they couldn't have picked a much more memorable reg.

 

(Wasn't me, I promise.)

[purplebargeken]

Brilliant purchase and a great write up. I love old jags and miss my 4.0 XJ6. Can't wait to see it all sorted.

[oldford]

I like those old XJs, nice to see one getting looked after. I see that your username on another car site is on your Yeti.

[freebird]

I used my mates C plate one back in the mid 90s. Id never even sat in an XJ6 before and, If im really honest, Im not fussed if i ever do again.

I couldnt believe how narrow it felt ( ok, Im broad ) and, for the size of engine, it wasnt THAT gutsy. I couldnt complain about the interior though, beautiful biscuit leather and well put together. My mate reckoned the onboard fuel consumption computer used to dive down to 8MPG when he floored it.

Its deffo a marmite car, I think people either love them or they dont.

That car does look bloody lovely though!

Mebee, my memories have become a bit blurred, ya know.........

[scooters]

See, Skizzer..what bounty falls into your lap when you listen to yer Uncle Scoots!

 

Looks great, btw. V jealous.

 

Btw, sent you an email ten days ago...Did u get it ok?

[Skizzer]

Remember this?  Two years have flown by since it last had any work done and then failed an MOT on welding, since when it's been sitting in dry storage in Eastbourne waiting for either Keith Parrington or me to get around to thinking about it.

 

Turns out it's just as well I didn't buy that brown Ro80, because I've just had the assessment through.  No surprises really, but it needs repairs or replacment of front and rear wings, floorpan, outer sills which is bound to mean inner sills are rotten, scuttle, rear screen surround, rear valence and one fuel tank.  After all that it'll want a full repaint, really (or possibly the mother of all tidemarks).  MUCHO DOLLAR.

 

Mechanically, it's good:  engine runs very well, gearbox not clunky, brakes, suspension and steering have been sorted.  Interior is pretty good too, especially the seats which are from a later V12 with contrasting piping.

 

The XJ Restorations chaps are suggesting it might be cheaper to buy a donor car with a good body and swap the mechanicals and perhaps interior into that shell.  I dare say they're right - they certainly know their stuff - but that still sounds like a lot of work and there's no guarantee that shell won't be fairly frilly underneath as well.  

 

Hmm.  Financially it makes no sense at all to do a proper body restoration as these are still worth buttons (albeit slightly more buttons than previously).  I could break it and buy a smart one with half this one's 126k mileage for thousands less.  But that would mean killing a car I like, which has a full history file and a Dollywobbler-approved registration, and is not the Autoshite way. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not just going to scrap it, it's too good (and I'm too soft) for that.  Just pondering how to move forward.

[vulgalour]

If your heart is not constrained too tightly by your wallet, restore it and be happy.

[Semi-C]

Due to my relative newbility, I'd not seen this before.

 

Rate it!

[Skizzer]

Thanks!

 

Due to you being a procrastinating git and leaving this fine automobile languishing in a shed for the last two years, I'd not seen this before.

 

Rate it!

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Thanks Vulg, I'm thinking the same: wallet is a bit constrained but I'm trying to find out how fat it needs to be.

[cort16]

You'll get a much better feeling of satisfaction restoring this then buying another. Sometimes that doesn't add up when it comes to count the pennies though.

If you can afford it and you at least have a rough idea of restoration costs I doubt you'll regret it.

[HMC]

Having held back from the Ro80 my man logic skills would be put to use selling myself the notion of giving this old jag a cash injection, obviously just how much is needed may be the issue, but on a rolling basis hopefully you can manage its resurrection.

[Bobthebeard]

Treat it as a labour of love. The actual cash cost is almost irrelevant if it can be afforded. Spending more on a car than what it is worth is relative if the car is worth it to you. Personally I would go for it if you love the car!

[DSdriver]

How much of that list is needed to get it through an MOT? Is it worth just doing the necessary and leaving the rest until next year? At least then you will get some value for your money - provided you use it and don't just put it back in the barn.

[barefoot]

Plus eleventy on a rolling restoration - do the stuff for the MOT and bang on replacement panels as and when you can afford to.

Vactan & Hammerite will last forever.

Don't worry about lovely, lovely shiny matching paint, that's for nobs.

 

I've just had the arse of my T2 re-built for a small fortune, but to save money I still have the old/rusty/scabby engine lid, tailgate & bumper.

Who cares?

[Skizzer]

Don't worry about lovely, lovely shiny matching paint, that's for nobs.

 

With you on that: paint is mainly for keeping the rain off.  It'll still need painting though.

 

I've asked for a rough estimate for a proper job, and we'll scale back from there depending on how terrifyingly large the number is.

[TagoraSX]

As someone who has been in this position several times here's my tuppence worth.

 

Unless the car has some sentimental value I would be leaning towards selling it and buying a very good one which would probably cost 30% of a restoration.

 

For the cost of a full restoration you could buy an excellent XJ AND an excellent Ro80.

[danthecapriman]

I say save it. You know the car already and in theory once the bad bits are done its a sound car, and a very nice one at that.

You could get a donor but that's an unknown quantity that may end up with its own set of problems and bodges once you get into it.

 

My Capri and Granada were both beyond economic repair with rust when I got them but I liked the cars so carried on anyway! It's very satisfying and a bit of a challenge saving a car most people would give up on.

 

It might save you some money using used parts where possible and doing some of the work yourself? Though I understand it's not always easy/possible.

[Skizzer]

As someone who has been in this position several times here's my tuppence worth.

 

Unless the car has some sentimental value I would be leaning towards selling it and buying a very good one which would probably cost 30% of a restoration.

 

This is very true, and is what my head is saying to me.

 

For the cost of a full restoration you could buy an excellent XJ AND an excellent Ro80.

 

This is very scary.

[Taff]

For what it's worth, I can see the same situation with my MGF. At sub £300, it's disposable, however it's a reasonably known quantity and it's got under my skin.

Get the structural bits sorts and wob the rest this year. That way, any spare cash can be spent on coke and hookers

 

 

tapped on the radiator using morse code

[Vince70]

My fathers old XJ6 4.2 suffered from the rust bug but that was back in the mid eighties and it was about 12 years old at the time so I can see that when an XJ is over 30 years old on original panels it's going to be a bit more than shabby chic.

 

One of his fuel tanks never worked and the other would pack up from time to time but he was a dab hand when it came to hitting the fuel pump with a hammer to get it merrily on its way again.

 

His one ended up being cannibalised for the engine as a mate of his had an old XJ6 2.8 which was a bit smokey and slow but had a good body so his ended up giving it's mechanical gubbins to another XJ.

 

The problem being these days is an old solid XJ is going to fetch a premium (my dads was £150 with a years ticket back then) and be a real rarity is there anyway you could get second hand panels here and there off eBay cheaply till you have the full set you need for the restoration it's sometimes better the devil you know.

 

And I imagine most good looking examples will be full of wob anyway.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

As someone who has been in this position several times here's my tuppence worth.

 

Unless the car has some sentimental value I would be leaning towards selling it and buying a very good one which would probably cost 30% of a restoration.

 

For the cost of a full restoration you could buy an excellent XJ AND an excellent Ro80.

 

This is the voice of reason; no matter how hard I try, I can't counter it with anything but emotional and sentimental feelings for 'saving something beautiful' - which is important to me. They're rare cars now, but sadly like so many other Jags it seems they're not worth very much money. Restoring it will cost a few thousand pounds more than it will be worth when it is done.

 

On the positive, you will have a car which you know is as good as it looks. Many, many super shiny old cars turn out to be bodged up old horrors full of filler - or if they're original and low mileage, then they so often have nascent rust all over them which breaks out and blooms as soon as you get the damn thing wet with any regularity.

 

That's what I told myself anyway when I decided to splurge cash on my XJ40 - a car which will never return the money I spent. The only flaw in this, is I still don't think it is quite as nice as a really good one. The paint isn't quite there - but then I didn't make the best choice of painter and I'm not sure many people would see the defects in it unless they spent time specifically  looking.

 

It may be a decision made for you by the quote. If it is unaffordable, then you know what to do. It's 'nearly affordable' which causes the angst - which you will feel if you kill it. If you weren't attached to the old thing, you wouldn't be asking the question!

[AnthonyG]

I wouldn't have thought a donor car will be that easy to find, in this country anyway. What chance a Jag with a decent body and shagged mechanicals?

 

You might get lucky and find a fairly tip-top example that's had a major fail to proceed on a steering rack or something and the owner is fed up/wants rid, but then you would end up with two Jags needing a fix rather than one.

 

So, stick with this one unless you have a contact in Australia or somewhere. I don't think dead Jags turn up for 500 euros in the south of France but obv Bickle or MrB is yer man to ask!

[MarvinsMom]

if it was me, then i would be inclined to fix it up on a rolling resto basis.

 

the money thing is i think largely irrelevant as there are all but no old cars that are worth spending alot of good money on, unless that is it is worth it to the owner. my better half has done thins with an austin metro. the car isnt worth more than a few hundred quid, but she loves it. and so it is worth spending her money on it.

 

plus, what ever you think it will cost to do the car up, i would be inclined to triple it, and the time scale will slip too, instead of taking 4 months say, don't be suprised if it takes 8 months to a year to complete. not that a car like this is ever really finished?

 

as series 3 xj6's are the most beautiful of cars, though they do hide all sorts of horrors. some hidden, some less so. 

 

and i'm not the one who will be paying the bills......

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

It is true that any Jag donor car will almost certainly have itself been killed by rust. It is what kills 'em - not mechanical woes like some cars.

[Skizzer]

^ My thoughts exactly.  There is a Daimler S3 on eBay at the moment that has supposedly had the bodywork 'restored' three years ago but not the mechanicals, so has been sitting in a field for 18 months: it looks marginally better than mine but odds on it's just a world of wob, plus there's all sorts of logistics nightmares and, as AnthonyG says, suddenly I'll have bought another broken car.

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171719176766

 

There's also an annoyingly shouty person in Skelmersdale selling a set of (generally unavailable) genuine NOS s3 wings and door skins. He's asking all the money, but it probably makes better sense. 

[MarvinsMom]

this is a problem, i suppose with alot of old cars, the availability or not, of panels.

 

the restored car, well i think you may well be correct about it been full of bodge and filler. a couple of years ago, i took the plunge and had my metro, marvin, repaired and repainted. all told the bill came out at i think £1800, or 3 times what the car is realistically worth. but it is worth much more to me....

 

the body shop did a generally crappy bodged over job, so much so that i was getting rust blebs in the "repaired" body work about 6 weeks later. i ended up getting a big chunk of the work done again, using steel not filler. infact the work was done by a fella we know personally who had worked at the above mentioned body shop until he got a written warning. he had repaired a customers rusty volvo amazon properly using metal and not filler. and this was a customer who was spending THOUSANDS of pounds at the firm cos he wanted the car repaired and painted properly. after than he told the firm he was working for to piss off, and he's set up on his own, and doing very well aswell.

 

but if someone has genuine panels, then they are worth getting as it would save time and hassle (and money) at the body shop. but there again, it's not me who's paying the bill

[Adrian_pt]

Get a quote then take it from there. Realistically they will all have something to fix and / or had plenty of bodges. I'm in a similar position with an XJ-S. It'll be painful but unless it costs a new arsehole to fix, I'll probably take the hit. That's life!