Sporting future shite, recomendations...

[skattrd]

If you're thinking about an Alfa 156 why not a 155 or 145/6?

Just watch out for the rust .... They're similar enginewise to the 156, unless you get an early 8v which is chain driven, but I would recommend avoiding those as parts for them are kinda hard to find.

 

What about the original form of the platform used on the 155 ... a Fiat Tipo, a Sedicivalvole is still on my list .. so is a Lancia Dedra.

[John F]

How about a Mk 3 Cavalier SRi or Calibra? The Calibra in particular looks very much like the Peugeot 406 Coupe, and IMHO has a nicer-looking rear end.

 

I know Vauxhall get a slagging on here (rightly so with respect to most of their recent efforts), but the 1990s Cav and Calibra are genuinely good cars. They're fairly reliable, engaging to drive and since prices are still quite low they won't really suffer from depreciation.

 

The 2.0 8v C20NE engine is tractable and very tough, the early 16v C20XE engines are powerful (approx. 150 bhp) and generally reliable, the later 136 bhp X20XEV Ecotec engines initially suffered from sensor problems but any survivors should have had the cure by now and these engines are quite torquey despite the power drop.

 

X20XEVs can suffer from OMG HGF at about 90,000 miles but it's a fairly easy DIY fix. The close-ratio F18cr and F20 gearboxes are also brilliant with all of the above engines, but some get a bit notchy with higher mileages - you'll soon spot a good one on a test drive.

[Pete-M]

I still want a 156 of some kind. I'll probably end up with the North West's shonkiest 2.5 V6 come next pay day. Still, will probably give Pete-M a laugh as I take out a small Cheshire village with it trying to be enthusiastic about my driving.

 

I do hope you're gonna buy the matching Ferrari baseball cap....

[Albert Ross]

No love for these beauties?

From a stunning £350 on Autotrader with no T&T, but this one is double that....

[sporty-shite]

I'll probably end up with the North West's shonkiest 2.5 V6 come next pay day.

 

Bagsy first test drive!!

[pbottomley]

Just caught up with this thread, the 323 sport is a real piece of crap, i drive one as a daily shite and its really rotten, boring un sporty and heavy on the jungle juice...

 

pro..

starts

 

cons...

25mpg no matter what you drive like

traction control that never works, feels like your driving over speed bumps

harsh clutch

rot on rear end common as much

front fogs always fill with water even in summer

air con about as powerful as an Eskimo fart

 

verdict ... a big single finger I only keep it as its cheap and available...

[philibusmo]

I just happened across something very interesting, as it turns out, a 156 V6 can be insured for the same price as the Saab (approx £150 more then the 2.0). This now makes it a real possibility.

I initially discounted it as quotes for the KV6 MGZT 190+, Xantia V6 and Alfa Romeo 164 had been many many thousands of pounds, and yet the 156 seems to have somehow been missed despite having 187Bhp from that gorgeous V6.

 

Now all I need to do is find one, in good nick, in a colour combination I like and preferably relatively close. I don't want to travel miles for one that turns out rough.

I guess the same applies, can belts, oil changes and electrics again.

 

 

In other news the head gasket on my dads x-reg Volvo V70 2.4 has just gone pop, and now it's hardly running. It was almost 300,000 miles old anyway and scruffy so replacing may be better than repair, anyone know of anything, preferably near Devon, which is quite large, an engine 2.0 or over, with a tow bar for approx £700? Has to be capable of towing a caravan and available for next week.

[idiotboy]

yet the 156 seems to have somehow been missed despite having 187Bhp from that gorgeous V6.

 

 

Probably because they spend more time broken down than as an actual "risk" on the roads.

[Cavcraft]

No love for these beauties?

From a stunning £350 on Autotrader with no T&T, but this one is double that....

 

I think he wants something sporting.

[pbottomley]

I am now report that my 323 sport is now Uber shite, having sat outside in the hail storm that passed over this afternoon, not one panel has escaped dents !!!

 

[155V6]

Might be a bit late,but how about a Fiat Coupe?.20V non-turbo shouldn't be too bad to insure,probably wouldn't of been messed with like a lot of turbos,& still has about 155bhp

[Albert Ross]

I think he wants something sporting.

 

You ever driven one in anger? Ever toasted along the A66 with a leggy blonde at your side, smoking all the Duffers in Daewoos, and leaving "OMG KAOS" in your wake? £76 to do 660 miles in 1999...... I hired one to go to a wedding in Cumbria, I thoroughly enjoyed every mile, and would have one immediately. Even the Wife likes them! I think it was S291AFE but I might be completely wrong.

[philibusmo]

A ford cougar is not even slightly desirable to me, sorry. They are probably capable long distance cruisers but the thought of actually buying one, with money, makes me ado a little sick in my mouth. I can't explain why.

 

I would love a fiat coupe, they remind me of being about 9 or 10 years old and buying one on gran turismo 2 and tuning it up massively, beating pretty much anything I came up against. Sadly all of them have insurance premiums that I don't think I have a hope of getting one for about five years.

 

Your suggestion did remind me that when I had a little more spare time some months back and was mucking around on gran turismo 5 I bought an Alfa Romeo 156 V6 from the used car dealership and then never used it. After work I had a good half hour going spare and decided to give it a test out. My mind has now been pretty much made up, in game it is responsive, quick in a straight line and corners very nicely indeed. To me this seems like a fairly good indication of its approximate characteristics in real life, pretty much everything else I have driven in that game has matched with the experiences of friends, family, popular opinion and road testers.

 

I have a little money going spare, but I think now I will need to get saving, and keep an eye out for the right one when it turns up. Has to be a V6, has to be trimmed in cow, in a good colour, with recent timing belt and preferably service history. I get the feeling that to save money in the long run with these, the best thing to do is get a better one in the first place, even if it is a little dearer.

[Cavcraft]

 

Your suggestion did remind me that when I had a little more spare time some months back and was mucking around on gran turismo 5 I bought an Alfa Romeo 156 V6 from the used car dealership and then never used it. After work I had a good half hour going spare and decided to give it a test out. My mind has now been pretty much made up, in game it is responsive, quick in a straight line and corners very nicely indeed. To me this seems like a fairly good indication of its approximate characteristics in real life, .

 

 

If that was the case then wouldn't all those eight stone, size ten 'supermodels' on dating websites actually resemble their description in real life, and not actually be some 17 stone 'hunny' with more tattoos and stubble than your average lifer?

[John F]

Eh? You're basing your car purchase on a 'test drive' in a video game?

 

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on the Internet. And there is a LOT of stupid stuff on the Internet.

[warren t claim]

If you're thinking about an Alfa 156 why not a 155 or 145/6?

Just watch out for the rust .... They're similar enginewise to the 156, unless you get an early 8v which is chain driven, but I would recommend avoiding those as parts for them are kinda hard to find.

 

What about the original form of the platform used on the 155 ... a Fiat Tipo, a Sedicivalvole is still on my list .. so is a Lancia Dedra.

 

You've more chance of seeing this...

than getting an unmolested Sedicivalvole.

[Cavcraft]

 

[Pete-M]

A ford cougar is not even slightly desirable to me, sorry. They are probably capable long distance cruisers but the thought of actually buying one, with money, makes me ado a little sick in my mouth. I can't explain why.

 

They're capable long distance tourers that'll out-handle pretty much everything else you've listed on an A or B road.

 

I knew someone who bought a car based on how it drove in Gran Turismo 2. a Skyline GT-R R32 with close to 500 bhp it was, he managed to persuade his mum to remortgage her house so he could have his Skyline. £26k (this was mid '90s) it cost her. It replaced his Cavalier Turbo - which was FWD as the transfer box had blown.

 

Anyway, numb-nuts with the Skyline used to trundle it around to the local car cruise one night a week listening to the Gran Turismo sound track in it, very rarely reaching more than 30 mph as he couldn't afford to put fuel in it, generally being a friendless tit. He'd pull up at the car cruise, get out, lean on his Skyline and tell everyone who'd take any notice of him how he could kick anyone's arse with his 500 bhp weapon.

 

Eventually he did give it a bit of welly (he was overtaken by a chap in a 106 XN on a motorway exit slip) and lost control, went spinning across a central reservation, ripped two wheels and various other bits of expensive stuff off it. I think the repair bill came to nigh on £10k...

[cort16]

I'd go for a Puma. They're pretty quick, have that zingy VVT Yamaha engine, handle really well and still look pretty good. Much better than the lard lad cougar anyway.

This one's an 02 plate with a years MOT and it's only £650. This one even looks like it still has rear arches, which is pretty much unheard of.

A Puma's defo on my list to own.

 

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/ford-puma-02-plate-full-mot/105569875

[warren t claim]

A ford cougar is not even slightly desirable to me, sorry. They are probably capable long distance cruisers but the thought of actually buying one, with money, makes me ado a little sick in my mouth. I can't explain why.

 

They're capable long distance tourers that'll out-handle pretty much everything else you've listed on an A or B road.

 

I knew someone who bought a car based on how it drove in Gran Turismo 2. a Skyline GT-R R32 with close to 500 bhp it was, he managed to persuade his mum to remortgage her house so he could have his Skyline. £26k (this was mid '90s) it cost her. It replaced his Cavalier Turbo - which was FWD as the transfer box had blown.

 

Anyway, numb-nuts with the Skyline used to trundle it around to the local car cruise one night a week listening to the Gran Turismo sound track in it, very rarely reaching more than 30 mph as he couldn't afford to put fuel in it, generally being a friendless tit. He'd pull up at the car cruise, get out, lean on his Skyline and tell everyone who'd take any notice of him how he could kick anyone's arse with his 500 bhp weapon.

 

Eventually he did give it a bit of welly (he was overtaken by a chap in a 106 XN on a motorway exit slip) and lost control, went spinning across a central reservation, ripped two wheels and various other bits of expensive stuff off it. I think the repair bill came to nigh on £10k...

 

What an odious little shit. Sadly his mum probably had to stump up the ten large to have it fixed. I really hope she leaves all her money to the local dogs home rather than to that loser. Any idea what he drives now?

[John F]

I'd go for a Puma. They're pretty quick, have that zingy VVT Yamaha engine, handle really well and still look pretty good. Much better than the lard lad cougar anyway.

This one's an 02 plate with a years MOT and it's only £650. This one even looks like it still has rear arches, which is pretty much unheard of.

A Puma's defo on my list to own.

 

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/ford-puma-02-plate-full-mot/105569875

 

Yep, the Fiesta coupe (aka Puma) isn't bad at all in 1.7 flavour. Performance is brisk and handling is ace, although it can be a bit twitchy until you get used to it due to sensitive PAS and a tiny steering wheel. Common rot spots are rear arches and especially the back of the front wheel arches. The 1.7 litre needs specific oil to avoid expensive cylinder liner problems though (allegedly). And it has the usual plasticky Ford interior.

 

I've only ever driven one Cougar and that was a 2.5 V6. Verdict: lazy engine with lazy gearing, felt a bit lardy and bulky in comparison with my 2.5 V6 Calibra although performance was similar.

[face]

I've had a ride in a 1.4 Puma and driven a 1.7 - the bigger engined one is better for all the points listed above but the 1.4 wasn't bad either, plus falls into the lower tax band.

 

I'm considering a 1.4 for my next car as it happens.

[cobblers]

A girl I know has a Puma, I went round to "test drive" a few for her when she was buying it and they drive pretty well, although they pretty much all need a new pair of wishbones on the front and as such pull all over the road on acceleration/braking.

 

They drive exactly like my the Mk3 Fiesta 1.6 Si I had years ago, which is actually quite well. Despite both of them being more or less a KA underneath, they feel a lot more solid and less like a flimsy baked potato on wheels, yet they keep most of the nimbleness.

 

I don't think either the 1.4 or 1.7 engines are anything of note, I test drove a couple of each and the both seem OK to drive about normally but the 1.7 isn't really any more rewarding when you give it some hammer. It's a couple of seconds quicker to sixty but it doesn't really egg you on to bother trying - it feels like a "normal" engine rather than something sporty.

[wuvvum]

 

OK, that just made me giggle like a twat.

[Pete-M]

I knew someone who bought a car based on how it drove in Gran Turismo 2.

Eventually he did give it a bit of welly (he was overtaken by a chap in a 106 XN on a motorway exit slip) and lost control, went spinning across a central reservation, ripped two wheels and various other bits of expensive stuff off it. I think the repair bill came to nigh on £10k...

 

What an odious little shit. Sadly his mum probably had to stump up the ten large to have it fixed. I really hope she leaves all her money to the local dogs home rather than to that loser. Any idea what he drives now?

 

I think his mum did stump up for the repairs, but refused to pay for his insurance. Last thing I heard he had a Renault 5 GT Turbo.

 

He was about 25 when he blagged his mum into buying the Skyline, by the way. Didn't have a job himself....

[Lacquer Peel]

I know Vauxhall get a slagging on here (rightly so with respect to most of their recent efforts), but the 1990s Cav and Calibra are genuinely good cars. They're... engaging to drive

 

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on the Internet. And there is a LOT of stupid stuff on the Internet.

 

Aye.

[Betaphile]

My dad has a 156 2.0, my mum a similarly-engined 147 and my current daily runner is a boggo (non-Sport) 1.8-litre 323, so I just thought I'd add my $0.0000002.

 

The Mazda is reliable, and usefully practical. It's also not as dismal to drive as you might think - in fairness, the steering is pretty disinterested, but once you get over that it points okay and rides pretty well. The damping is also far better-matched for Australian roads than either Alfa, not that this is particularly relevant to you. It is catastrophically dull though, and the interior in particular is a depressing place to be - all sorts of different (mismatched) shades of grey. Bleh. It's fine for disposable modern shite, and the set-and-forget nature is a big plus, but you definitely won't become attached to it.

 

Now... 156 vs 147. Aesthetically, for me, the 156 wins hands-down. However, if I was only able to keep one, it would be the 147. An important consideration to bear in mind is that the 156 sedan doesn't have a folding rear seat - only a ski hatch. (The Sportwagon does have a full folding jobbie.) This omission is actually surprisingly irritating and affects its usability quite a bit. From the various cars I've driven and inspected over the years, I also tend to feel that 147s are more substantial and better put-together. The rear seat space is pretty similar too, and I have always thought the handling balance on 147s is superior (mostly down to a more tied-down rear - standard 156 shocks are a disaster on Australian blacktop). Obviously a 156 in nice nick is a better bet than an abused 147, but in my experience you're more likely to find a nicer 147 than 156.

 

On what is the 'best engine', there are as many opinions as there are tossers to provide them. Some people will tell you that the 2.0 Twin Sparker is the best bet since it uses pretty much the same amount of fuel as the 1.8. Others reckon the 1.6/1.8 are the way to go since they're slightly less prone to go bang, plus they're cheaper/easier to service as they lack the balancer shafts (and variator in the case of the 1.6). It's true Alfa reduced the scheduled mileage on the cambelts to (from memory) 36,000 miles owing to a spate of failures; what is less well-known is that they also changed the recommended oil spec from 10W/40 to 10W/60 for the same reason. Buying an Alfa with one of these motors is a risk - there isn't any way around that. And it's not just the cambelt itself, either. Our 147 suffered a seized waterpump a few months ago - rare, but not unheard of. On the TS motor, the waterpump is driven directly off the drive belt assembly. In what is literally a million-to-one chance, the belt jumped three notches but somehow managed to avoid stuffing any valves into pistons. All you can do is make a judgement call based on the owner's personality and the condition of the car/history. We've been lucky with ours, and if you get a nice one they are great cars. Question is - do you feel lucky?

 

As for the V6... personally, I'm not really persuaded of the value of the 2.5. Servicing is a nightmare on these and most of the time they just don't feel that quick - the engine is a bit short on torque, so the real-world performance differential compared to the 2.0 is minimal until you're going fast enough to lose your licence, in which case the point is moot anyway.

 

"Clutch slave cylinders are made from low strength cheese and for some bizarre reason Alfa moved the slave from sitting happily on top of the bell housing and being easy to change on a 155 to inside the bell housing on the 156 resulting in a gearbox out job."

 

Yes, I can second that this change was definitely bad news. Especially true when one's mechanic is a moron and the car needs to go back three times before it's actually fixed.

 

Oh, and one other thing. JTS engine. Avoid. (This is another plus point for the 147, incidentally - they never got around to installing that disaster, it was Twin Sparkers all the way to the end of the run.)

[John F]

I know Vauxhall get a slagging on here (rightly so with respect to most of their recent efforts), but the 1990s Cav and Calibra are genuinely good cars. They're... engaging to drive

 

That is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on the Internet. And there is a LOT of stupid stuff on the Internet.

 

Aye.

 

You prepared to justify that piss-take, pal?

[Betaphile]

"I have a little money going spare, but I think now I will need to get saving, and keep an eye out for the right one when it turns up. Has to be a V6, has to be trimmed in cow, in a good colour, with recent timing belt and preferably service history."

 

Mmhmm... best of luck ticking every box on that list. I will give you timing belt and service history... the others are niceties at best, not even close to essential. An excellent rule of thumb with buying shite (or actually any car) is that meticulously-stamped history, fastidious owner and undesirable spec are infinitely preferable to trade-preference colour, just-so alloys and no floor (as I'm sure you well know from your Y10).

[Spiny Norman]

Mmhmm... best of luck ticking every box on that list. I will give you timing belt and service history... the others are niceties at best, not even close to essential. An excellent rule of thumb with buying shite (or actually any car) is that meticulously-stamped history, fastidious owner and undesirable spec are infinitely preferable to trade-preference colour, just-so alloys and no floor (as I'm sure you well know from your Y10).

 

+1.

 

The thing to remember with the 156 is that A) They look amazing no matter what colour they're painted, the mark of a truly beautiful car is if it can get away with white or some unpleasant brownish hue, and the 156 can.

And There are so many of them languishing in breakers yards and driveways with dead engines that cosmetic parts including complete interiors and secondhand panels for them are really easy to come by.