Thoughts on fuel prices

[e287yba]

When spotted in Sheffield, the Yorkshire Ripper's car (Rover 3500) had number plates attached that he had stolen from a scrapyard in Mirfield earlier that day - they related to a Skoda and not the Rover 3500 they were on. The tax disc on the Rover, showing registration number FHY 400K, gave a clue as to the real identity of the car and who the driver might be.

 

He had let the Insurance lapse on the car though, as he was facing a trial for drink-driving soon after and a ban of at least a year was inevitable.

[willswitchengage]

Bump, as this may all be irrelevant soon.

 

Following the phenomenal success stories of utilities and rail privatisation, and the ongoing PR winz of privatising WM/Surrey police and the NHS (although both will still remain Gov't owned, by definition the contracting out of services and finance-not-results approaches do dictionary-definition constitute a privatisation), it seems selling off our roads is back on the agenda. If they do, it would be nice if we actually got a fair price (BR was sold off at ~£6bn, DB of Germany is currently valued at around 60-100bn euros for their proposed sell-off). If anybody has ever used the M6 recently they will know what success stories private "relief" toll roads have been.

[trigger]

They are taking about making the A14 a toll road which could mean that I'll have to pay to drive to work and will encourage lorry drivers to use the back roads through the small villages instead.

 

Plus diesel was £150.9 yesterday, grumpy...

[willswitchengage]

They are taking about making the A14 a toll road which could mean that I'll have to pay to drive to work and will encourage lorry drivers to use the back roads through the small villages instead.

 

Plus diesel was £150.9 yesterday, grumpy...

 

Last time I filled up, fuelly says petrol was 10p less than it is now. Fail.

 

Good luck with the A14. I was up cycling near Cannock the other day, and as usual the A5 was congested with lorries with the M6 toll empty save for an occasional coach or BMW.

[M'coli]

I think this is going to become a greater and greater problem with all services and the things that we use. They are ours, for us to use, paid for in general by the taxes of our forebears so that we could do the things we need to do to get by. Yet we ourselves seem unwilling, or are made to think it's a bad idea, to "pay" for these things upfront via our taxes - and so we are being told that it is a "good thing" that private investment pays for them instead. So who pays the private investment firms so they get a return for their money and the profit that they seek? Us. Through the nose. Either via the tax system when later government administrations realise the folly that the past 30-odd years of various governments has showered down on us, or straight out of our bank accounts on a direct debit basis via some form of CCTV or GPS road charging.

 

Why are we as a nation being so short-sighted? The comparison that was made with the water companies is insulting, considering how much of them are owned by the Qataris/Chinese/etc.

[SambaS]

I paid over £8 today to fill up a can of petrol that used to cost me £4.60. Shocking bastards!

[Cavcraft]

According to the bible that is Radio 2 the government are NOT on about selling off any current roads, they're proposing it for any future new roads and obv. a toll will be charged for the use of.

 

If ever they made all motorways toll roads you'd want to make sure you didn't live near any other main road as traffic will back up no end.

[M'coli]

^^^ This will indeed be the case, but what will happen when that parallel route wears out? I'd guess the route would be sold off to a private firm, who will introduce toll charges to pay for the re-building of it and so on and so on.

[Negative Creep]

139.9 for unleaded today. Doesnmt matter who's in charge, none of them have a clue

[warren t claim]

After noticing that my gas combi boiler is made by Worcester Bosch as opposed to Worcester Lucas I'm going to run by central heating on used oil from the chippy. The money I save on heating costs can go straight into the tank of the Mercedes.

[gtd2000]

After noticing that my gas combi boiler is made by Worcester Bosch as opposed to Worcester Lucas I'm going to run by central heating on used oil from the chippy. The money I save on heating costs can go straight into the tank of the Mercedes.

 

Any idea if red diesel is cheaper than kerosene and if so - can you use it in a boiler?

 

I'm assuming similar results but lower surphur content or suchlike?

[warren t claim]

So we're still getting the 3p rise in fuel duty.

 

But at least we'll be able to pay for car tax by direct debit.

[CortinaDave]

Aye the number one tax concern according to the recent polls is fuel duty... and that's the one he increases...

 

I often think if you're in London and on London wages and with London prices as most of the government are, petrol as a proportion of your monthly spend probably seems relatively reasonable... but living up here in the north on half the money and having to travel double the distance because everything's much more spread out it's crippling... I spend more on petrol per month than any of my other bills, including the mortgage.

 

Problem is... it doesnt seem to matter which party is in, They're ALL really heavy on the motorist, so we cant win.

 

Still at least beer didn't go up for once...

[willswitchengage]

Despite this rise, the IATA can still find something to complain about.

 

Airlines pay no VAT or duty whatsoever on their fuel, but are still finding room to moan about how the rise in wholesale prices is crippling their unsustainable, elitist and environmentally insulting "industry". Cleary, 40p per litre is too expensive for Branso or Walsh.

[CortinaDave]

Can i convert my orion to run on aviation fuel??? Bet it would go well then

[warren t claim]

Can i convert my orion to run on aviation fuel??? Bet it would go well then

 

I believe private light aircraft run on full fat, untaxed leaded petrol

[Lankytim]

Time to gas up the Volvo!

[Pete-M]

Problem is... it doesnt seem to matter which party is in, They're ALL really heavy on the motorist, so we cant win.

 

You can't say that, you'll upset the Mirror readers and other short-sighted, media educated, union member Labour apologists.

 

Everyone in Europe is paying roughly similar prices for fuel. Whether it's petrol, diesel or LPG. Some countries are daft enough to charge more for petrol than for diesel, and others do it the other way around. We're not actually being shafted that badly in comparison with some places as although we pay a bit more for car insurance (that's down to the claims culture we have so it's self-inflicted) and we don't do badly for road tax when you compare the price of a years tax here to Ireland or plenty of other places.

 

This budget isn't that bad. Could have been worse. Could have been a Labour one. "Rape the motorist and call it an environmental tax". Of course, if you ask a Labour MP what they'd have done they'll tell you that if you vote for them they'll pay you £500 a minute to use petrol, in fact, they'll give you a Lamborghini for free and your own personal brothel. Staffed entirely with nymphomaniac nurses who love beige.

[CortinaDave]

I believe private light aircraft run on full fat, untaxed leaded petrol

 

 

 

 

[willswitchengage]

Could have been a Labour one. "Rape the motorist and call it an environmental tax".

 

 

Woah, look at that massive real-terms increase in fuel duty when Tony Brown was in charge, and that huge decrease when John "I like trains" Major was in Gov't.

 

My mate used to run his CDTi-stra on Kerosene as he used to work by an airfield, only thing that stopped him was guilt. Countryside, everybody does it.

[autofive]

 

My mate used to run his CDTi-stra on Kerosene as he used to work by an airfield, only thing that stopped him was guilt. Countryside, everybody does it.

 

 

at least heating oil (kerosine) is white, and low tax

 

last year it was the prime target for 'fuel thieves' but now (from what i ve read in the news recently) the fave is diesel from parked overnight HGVs. but i thought all the big operators used a blue or purple stain to make it difficult to sell on.

[willswitchengage]

Nice that BBC news at ten managed to squeeze a 2CV into their petrol prices report

 

They commented on rising prices encouraging manufacturers to develop more efficient engines etc, but the irony of this is that it is highly reductive. The exciting laws of economics tell us that if you make a process more efficient then you will use more of it - as in far more than you would have with its less efficient predecessor. Your 2litre TDi will use more fuel than your Dad's Perkins-Montego, purely as the enormous power it creates encourages a more lively driving style, plus it'll be a lot heavier. Although you must genuinely sympathise with commercial drivers, the people who make no effort to stop driving like an oaf don't really have the same qualification to moan about how much it is at the pumps. It is sad though - people who have to race between the lights in their Audi Q7s - it must be so difficult living with a penis that small.

[scooters]

The hidden cost to all this is the crippling effect it has on the economy and I am referring to the whole of the eu here. If we are going to have a hope in hell of our kids not learning mandrin or Cantonese instead of French or Germans then we desperately need to follow their example of centrally managing the underlying essentials of the economy. The problem is this democracy nonsense what we need is a brutal dictatorship with me incharge.

 

Seriously though it is a nightmare for business especially manufacturing. If the govt is serious about moving from a banker/service economy to a balanced one then the much neglected manufacturing sector needs specific attention...ie red diesel for distribution would make a hell if a difference.

[steve austin]

Fuel duty affects me but not on the same scale as a haulage company so I can just about afford to choose my car as I travel very little miles a year. The car is not a god given right to own for everyone but as per usual its the less affluent that will feel the pinch before the top earners. I appreciate the government has set outgoings and income to find but I get really annoyed when they hide behind the "green" banner and cite enviro issues as part of the reason for such high fuel duty. I am willing to keep paying extortionate duty IF the road system gets better, public transport is dragged out of the dark ages and seen as a real alternative to cars and that we support those services like truckers that need affordable fuel in order to fill our bellies and clothe our backs............

[Pete-M]

The car is not a god given right to own for everyone but as per usual its the less affluent that will feel the pinch before the top earners.

 

I hate to be the one to point this out, but that's true of everything. If you're a top earner, it's easier to buy stuff because you have more money than people who aren't top earners. It's why people work hard to become top earners.

 

Of course, to quote that moron Balls "It's not fair". Him and his cronies fail to appreciate that life generally isn't fair. Taxing those who're successful to pay for those who're not is not the answer to absolutely everything.

[Cavcraft]

You can't say that Scooters, the Daily Mail reading 'everything is Labour's fault' and 'fuck you, I'm alright Jack' brigade will crucify you. Just before they sit back watching thousands being lobbed out of work and even less money going back into the economy as a result.

Obv. the good thing is though these people never take any holidays, have proper, safe working conditions and take inordinate amounts of shit off their bosses because those nasty union boys set this up for everyone, and we can't be seen to be liking anything they did.

Oh, and rising fuel duty and VED is fine because it's expensive elsewhere in the world, and banking on that theory maybe we should start torturing people and shooting them for allegedly missing a tax payment. They do this in China so it's only right we should do it here too.

[Pete-M]

Alternatively, the Mirror reading "Everything the Tories do is evil" and "Fuck success, I'm a Union Man" brigade will complain about anything that doesn't utterly butt-fuck this country in the name of communism.

 

Two sides to every argument.

[scooters]

news this morning - the twats now want to 'go after the tax dodging contract and temporary worker.

 

errrmm... successive governments have created an work economy where corporates can hire people on such a contract rather than employ somone properly - they have to realise that they cannot have their cake and eat it - if you are going to treat people cynically then do not be surprised if they turn round and do the same to the system.

 

as it happens, as a 'so called high earning contractor myself' I was paid less than my colleagues on permanent contracts because although my 'day rate' looked high, by the time you had taken off corporation tax, personal tax, sick pay, holiday pay and NI I took home less than my colleagues and had less rights. By giving PAYE temps the same employment rights as permanent staff all that hashappenedis the threshold for hiringaday rate ltd company contractor has dropped.

 

With the new fuel costs there is no way I could have done my old job, I would have been shelling out 200 quid a week on fuel which I would havebeen unable to claim

[willswitchengage]

If the govt is serious about moving from a banker/service economy to a balanced one

 

Let's not kid ourselves, it's cheap rhetoric.

 

Also something to bear in mind - weirdly high tax Britain (and Scandinavia) is best positioned to absorb oil price shocks. This 10p increase we've had in 2012 is what 7ish% increase on the price of fuel? In cheap fuel countries like France then that's a 10% increase, and in the ever ridiculous USA that could be a 20% increase. Our inflation will be lower, and the change, although still significant, is more easily absorbed. Plus, since we're such a small country these increased transport costs are far less significant than in say France and the States where travelling distances are double what we have. Swings and roundabouts really, others have it far worse off.

[Spiny Norman]

They commented on rising prices encouraging manufacturers to develop more efficient engines etc, but the irony of this is that it is highly reductive.

 

 

I sometimes wonder if the UK motorist wants better mpg or if he just likes moaning about how much teh gubmint is pissing on his bonfire.

 

If we had the intelligence to demand from the auto makers small, modern and above all lightweight cars, the 100mpg supermini would be the norm.

Why the hell does a fecking Corsa (seats 4 smallish people plus a few bags) have to weigh in at twice what a late 80s Citroen AX (also seats 4 + bags) or even a Polo did? Imagine a modern version of a light 4 seater hatch like the AX with the GM/Fiat 1.3 CDTi Diseasel lump or something similar in it?