GM joining with PSA

[j-j]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17213021

 

What do we make of this? In the rising might of the Chinese car industry it's perhaps a necessity. Might well keep familiar brands with us, too late for Saab though

 

From a Citroenist's point of view I suppose the fear is the final nail in the coffin of the REAL Citroën.. no more hydraulics, the last of the quirky dashboards and no more uniqueness and the end of their brand-specific solutions to layout and practicality. Citroens will definitely now have their spare tyres in the boot..

[warren t claim]

I wonder where that leaves JLR who use Pug engines?

[Pete-M]

LOL, Vauxhalls with hyperactive suspension and XM wiring.

 

I'm gonna enjoy this.

[j-j]

I wonder where that leaves JLR who use Pug engines?

 

Actually, I think we're not far off there being a single, global car maker that does it all....all the names being just brands of the mega corp.

[warren t claim]

Do you think a Ford and GM merger could work?

[j-j]

Do you think a Ford and GM merger could work?

Might HAVE to!! it's them or the Chinese! It'll be civil war in australia tho!!

[warren t claim]

One day there'll only be four car makers left in the world. One of them will be Morgan.

[j-j]

Haha! Post - apocalypse, wooden chassis WINning! Could be worse.. ( o wait, the Chinese could do one of their copies of it.. I can't even picture that!)

[vulgalour]

Haha! Post - apocalypse, wooden chassis WINning! Could be worse.. ( o wait, the Chinese could do one of their copies of it.. I can't even picture that!)

 

 

Let me help you with that, with the Mitsuoka Himiko.

 

 

 

 

Actually... I don't think it's too dreadful.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

People mentioned Ford...who is behind most of the development of Ford's current lineup of diesel engines? That's right, GM's new ally, who also makes cars in a joint venture with Toyota!

[Ross_K]

From a Citroenist's point of view I suppose the fear is the final nail in the coffin of the REAL Citroën.. no more hydraulics, the last of the quirky dashboards and no more uniqueness and the end of their brand-specific solutions to layout and practicality. Citroens will definitely now have their spare tyres in the boot..

 

You could say the Xantia was the last "proper" Citroen with proper suspension.

 

Others would say the CX was the last "proper" Citroen, before Peugeot took over...

 

Currently, only the C6 ( and top of the range C5's) use, umm, non-conventional suspension.

 

Either way Citroen hasn't been Citroen for a while now. Specially with this DS-everything bullshit...

 

Dunno what GM are going to bring to the table though... Fucking horrible cars with fucking horrible engines - I can't think of anything good to say about their products. Maybe there will be economies of scale when it comes to buying? I don't think they have anything to offer technology-wise except maybe Onstar...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

GM could offer tips on coming last to market with products for new segments, and f##king up sub-brands with half-arsed badge engineering efforts, as it is experts in those fields. Also it brings experience to the table of managing bankruptcy, (an area where PSA remains wet behind the ears).

[Cavcraft]

If they remake a Mk3 Cavalier and put a 1.9TD Xantia engine in it I'd be interested. Other than that they go and whistle Joe Le Taxi out of their collective derrieres.

[messerschmitt owner]

It's the way of the world - car companies have to get bigger to get costs down by sharing expertise and parts across many brands.

 

It does mean less choice ultimately and more shit cars. Roll on the Chinese stuff for a bit of automotive shite.

 

Citroens haven't been Citroens since the Xantia and XM left the fold in the same was as Peugeots have been almost as ugly as American GM products since the advent of the *07 model ranges. Their only decent looking vehicle today is the 107 and all of the others are gaping mouthed monstrosities.

 

GM in Europe have hardly made a decent car since they got rid of the Mk3 Cavalier and some would argue they lost their way in the 1960s, never to recover from their blandness. That said, I wouldn't throw certain Carltons out of bed. The range is just dull and uninspiring.

[Ross_K]

GM doesn't really have much of a record of working with anybody, does it?

 

Their last partnership, with Fiat, left them $2bn out of pocket...

 

Lotus. Driven to bankruptcy and now owned by Proton.

Saab. Well there's a good lesson in what jumping into bed with GM gets you.

Isuzu. Who?

 

Hopefully PSA 'll do a Fiat on them, rather than the alternative

[cort16]

Do GM still have Subaru? Just wondering as they built their new Sports car thing with Toyota.

Remember the hideous Saaburo thing they sold in the states? Another GM masterpiece.

 

Here's one here infact.

[Formula Autos]

That Saabaru is far better styled than the Impreza it's based on.

 

Leaving that side issue, I would have thought that it would have been far better for GM to have merged with Nissan/Renault. The European van range is already a platform sharing/badge engineering exercise, and Nissan already has a large presence in the USA, where GM can presumably make the most out of economies of scale. What market presence has PSA got in the US?

 

Plus, for some unfathomable reason, the Americans seem to have a huge downer on the French (calling them Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys, attacking Republican candidates who can speak French, etc.). I can't see this merger going down at all well in certain sections of US society. At least Nissan/Renault is only partly French - they could have played up the Nissan part.

[cort16]

The Saabaru looks alright I guess, it's just so half arsed.

 

Although Renault aren't doing so well Nissan is booming especially in the states so they probably want go there own way rather than get in tow with GM.

[morris_ital_lover]

I suspect the whole ensemble will be a financial ruin within the next 5-10 years, whether it'll be bailed out by the French/US will be another issue. They are both far off their game and GM seems to be a total dead duck waiting to be finished off.

 

I was suprised on Topgear how suprisingly good those Chinese cars looked/were, 5 years ago you could spend hours laughing your tits off at a Chinese car catalogue when they specified extras like wheels, dragon escape hatches and so forth... GM are moving fast enough to evade the Chinese, this will hardly help except if they manage to scoop up the engines and not fiddle with anything (which they won't) and within a decade Pug and Cit will be brand names for Roewes and Trompchis for the French market and GM won't exist because the Americans won't let it go to the Chinese.

[ashmicro]

The Chinese have got the hang (more or less) of styling cars, but there's more to it than that, namely engineering. Anyone remember the horrendous crash test of the W203 clone? Apparently even the stuff they make now folds up like a beer can. You cannot build up a proper engineering base and culture in 5 to 10 years. Look at the French - they've been at it for over a century and they still can't get it right.

[Barry Cade]

Saab should have stuck with Lancia and would have taken over the world!

 

A non rusty car of the year 1980 with loads of turbo experience, that was built properly and had the keys beside the handbrake and electric window switches in the roof..

 

[John F]

Plus, for some unfathomable reason, the Americans seem to have a huge downer on the French...

 

It's because americans are Fucking Idiots that live in a dreamworld where everybody likes them and thinks they're cool. The French, of course, aren't going to fall for such utter shit & do their own thing.

[AnthonyG]

You cannot build up a proper engineering base and culture in 5 to 10 years. Look at the French - they've been at it for over a century and they still can't get it right.

 

As opposed to us, we built one up over 200 years and then pissed it all anyway in about 20 years .

[j-j]

You cannot build up a proper engineering base and culture in 5 to 10 years. Look at the French - they've been at it for over a century and they still can't get it right.

What do you mean by this? What is 'getting it right'? Citroen had a separate factory to produce their hydraulic system parts - the only automobile mass production line in the history of the automobile to be manufactured to MICRON tolerances. It's so precisely made in fact that they didn't require sealing rings; the fit was so close to perfect that it sealed by fit alone. That is aerospace-grade manufacturing and Citroen produced it since just after the war long before any of the modern (meaningless) ISO 90001 stuff. I would say that this one French manufacturer 'got it right' already - 60 years ago. (if by getting it right you mean ultra high quality manufacture)

[flat4alfa]

Go on then. Buy that C5 you promised yourself

[flat4alfa]

Isn't it funny the new GM bakers van (called the Combo) is a rebadged Doblo build in the same Turkish plant as all the other little Fiat Doblos. And why? Because they don't have a small panel van commercial - Meriva is a car. So they had to buy something in.

 

Now! They can have Vauxhall Partners. Which is nice.

[Guest]

I hope PSA bleed GM dry and leave them for dead. Call it comeuppance for running Saab into the ground.

 

Or we can have a range of piss ugly, badly riding, shit engined cars to buy. Hang on a minute........

[PaykanHunter]

Does this mean that finally they will stop these bloody CKDs in IRAN then?!!!.... Horaaa!!!!!!!.....

 

Bring back the PAYKAN!!!!!!.....

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/0 ... -alliance/

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I see Moodys have downgraded PSA shares to 'Junk' on this news, presumably having looked at the long list of great* successes* that have sprung from all of GM's other dalliances.

[Guest]

Oh no!

 

We're criticising GM again!

 

WE'S ALL GONNA DIE (cue dummy outage).