Fantastic Mega-Mile Renner Diesel Reliability

[warren t claim]

I don't know whether you've noticed that of late our motorway network has been invaded by fleets of Polish registered 3.5t Renault Master curtainsiders, usually with a tiny sleeping pod on the roof. I was talking to one of their drivers in a petrol station earlier on today about what the score was with them and he divulged a few figures to me....

 

His van was only two months old and had already covered a simply staggering 50,000km. THIRTY ONE THOUSAND MILES! Apparently he's the only driver and he works 21 days out of 28. I really wouldn't want to try to guess how many hours a day he works! The vans a pensioned off after two years after which they've probably covered nearly 375,000 miles. Just to put that kind of mileage into perspective, my last truck was an 06 plate Scania that only covered 520,000km and that was used 5.5 days a week. He said that he only has to call the recovery services out maybe once a year and that the Renaults are by far and away the most reliable van for the job. For his endeavours he's rewarded with a monthly salary of between 1500 and 2000 Euros a month. Rather him than me!

[Felly Magic]

breaching EU driver rules guaranteed! Odds on these buggers run overweight too.

[cobblers]

thats 738 miles a day (two months, 42 working days). Assuming he's averaging 60mph and never stops, he's doing 12.3 hour days, obviously he's probably doing a fair bit longer. Rather him than me!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Blimey, thats impressive innit. I have certainly noticed these things blezzing about everywhere with the little sleeping pods on. They must be a mega efficient way of shifting stuff in terms of cost per kilogram-mile, what do you reckon they do, 30mpg?

[dollywobbler]

Guess these are light enough to not require a tacho? So it's bloody hard to tell how long they've been driving IF they get a tug.

 

Jeepers and indeed cor blimey.

[scooters]

the guys who employ these blokes are dodgey fekkers - not only are they putting everyone's lives at risk but their behaviour means that the powers to be will probably tighten up the driving for reward rules and screw couriers all over Europe##pr!cks

[sporty-shite]

I used to drive a Master panel van, and it was indeed ACE. I put some long days in, in that van, but always managed tp get paid for a proper Premier Inn bed if I stayed out!

 

Only thing that I'm amazed some of these get away with is towing trailers. For that you'd need a tacho, which rules out the hours, unless they double man, of course.

 

Anyway, as said, rather them than me.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

That is fucking reckless. Do they mostly do private work, or do they carry out contracts for corporates? If it's the latter, might be worth investigating before someone gets killed...

[andrew e]

I'd say its just as reckless as the couriers/shiply lads over here. Except the polish are using brand new wagons that are maintained. The times I've been to Poland, and the poles I've encountered here and there leads me to believe they are a pretty well disciplined bunch, that are willing to work - a trick my own country men would be wise to embrace.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I have no problems with them being Polish- in fact, I think Poles are a wonderful bunch of people. However, the amount of driving is both illegal and dangerous. If the Shiply couriers do that, we should investigate them, too!

[Richard]

It's not illegal on a vehicle under 3.5 tonnes. Many taxi drivers do more hours, though not as many miles. I used to do 75 hours a week as a part time taxi driver and I can remember one driver doing a 36 hour shift.

[Cavcraft]

Probably not enough room to double man. A certain German HGV haulage generally double man their trucks and they are on such shit money they can afford to stand them for a few days until they get a load (or a series of loads) to get them back home again.

[warren t claim]

What's the warranty and service interval for a Renault Master? If it's something like 18,000 miles between services and two years unlimited mileage then I should imagine that they're run until the warranty expires and then disposed of. 18,000 miles sounds like the sort of distance it covers on 21 days so I should imagine its straight into the dealers when he gets home.

 

Imagine if they used Transits? They'd be in for a new flywheel every two months!

 

The driver said that the Master is very reliable and they never suffer any major mechanical breakdowns which makes you wonder why Lagunas are so unreliable.

[warren t claim]

Probably not enough room to double man. A certain German HGV haulage generally double man their trucks and they are on such shit money they can afford to stand them for a few days until they get a load (or a series of loads) to get them back home again.

 

There's an area of Urmston in Manchester that's known as little Istanbul due to the amount of Turkish trucks parked up there. Sometimes they're parked up for anything up to six weeks waiting for a backload.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

It's not illegal on a vehicle under 3.5 tonnes.

 

Assuming their contracts are governed by Polish employment legislation (which is a reasonable assumption given that the vehicles are registered in Poland), there is a statutory maximum (48 hours) to the working week (http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/stu ... 06010s.htm if anyone wants to read the tedious details). It's a roundabout way of getting them but, as it clearly is a safety issue, needs to be considered.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Chase it up for us then L-A-U, cheers. Let us know when you've sorted it.

[andrew e]

Does Renault still offer the strange set up were you get a better warranty and service from Renault trucks dealers than from Renault car dealers, for the sub 3.5 tonne stuff?

[andrew e]

Luxo, if your employed in the transport industry you can legally opt out of the EU working time directive.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Chase it up for us then L-A-U, cheers. Let us know when you've sorted it.

 

Haha, now that is an interesting challenge. I'm not worried though, I'll get South Yorkshire police on the case after they finish solving the mystery of the broken door mirrors ("-We have spoken to the building manager and the CCTV was off" "-Did you ask them if they can try and keep it switched on in the future?" "-No, I didn't think of that").

 

Luxo, if your employed in the transport industry you can legally opt out of the EU working time directive.

 

AFAIK, the opt-out malarkey only applies to the UK and a couple of odd places like Malta. However, I've not done any work/research in the haulage industry, so there may well be an EU-wide industry exception that I am unaware of.

[warren t claim]

Does Renault still offer the strange set up were you get a better warranty and service from Renault trucks dealers than from Renault car dealers, for the sub 3.5 tonne stuff?

Renault truck dealers are superb. Fully staffed 24/7 as well. A courtesy car for the driver whilst your truck is in for service and repair is the norm.

[Richard]

Normally the opt-out works along the lines of "work the hours we tell you or get another job".

[M'coli]

The 48-hour time directive is "an average of 48 hours per week over a 12 week period", I seem to recall.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Normally the opt-out works along the lines of "work the hours we tell you or get another job".

 

...and that's precisely why it's an inflexible limit in most EU countries and the government headed by Thatcher-obsessed Blair was one of the very few who lobbied for the exception!

[Cavcraft]

I bet you'd struggle to prove they were going over hours and even if they did get tugged the companies would just send the driver back home and run him round mainland Europe for a while.

[worldofceri]

Luxo, if your employed in the transport industry you can legally opt out of the EU working time directive.

 

No.

 

Pretty much everyone in the UK can opt out of the Working Time Directive except "mobile workers" including (but not limited to) drivers. Their hours are governed by the Road Transport (Working Time) Directive, which is essentially the same thing as the WTD except there is no longer any opt-out.

 

Under the RTD you can only work for 48 hours in any week, averaged over up to 26 weeks.

 

Our Polish Renault Master driving friends are subject to these rules and, in the UK, also subject to the Domestic Driver's Hours rules. These are different to the EU rules and basically apply to anyone driving a goods vehicle that doesn't require a tachograph. The maximum driving time under Domestic Driver's Hours is 10 per day, with a maximum duty time of 11 hours.

 

The trouble is, without a tachograph it's fairly difficult to prove exactly how much driving has been done and when. I think it's a legal requirement to keep a record of hours worked, but that's pretty damn easy to falsify.

[alf892]

Luxo, if your employed in the transport industry you can legally opt out of the EU working time directive.

 

No.

 

Pretty much everyone in the UK can opt out of the Working Time Directive except "mobile workers" including (but not limited to) drivers. Their hours are governed by the Road Transport (Working Time) Directive, which is essentially the same thing as the WTD except there is no longer any opt-out.

 

Under the RTD you can only work for 48 hours in any week, averaged over up to 26 weeks.

 

Our Polish Renault Master driving friends are subject to these rules and, in the UK, also subject to the Domestic Driver's Hours rules. These are different to the EU rules and basically apply to anyone driving a goods vehicle that doesn't require a tachograph. The maximum driving time under Domestic Driver's Hours is 10 per day, with a maximum duty time of 11 hours.

 

The trouble is, without a tachograph it's fairly difficult to prove exactly how much driving has been done and when. I think it's a legal requirement to keep a record of hours worked, but that's pretty damn easy to falsify.

 

The Polish guys are not subject to hours rules because their vehicles are under the 3500 gross limit for tacho. Domestic hours only apply where a vehicle would normally be in scope of tacho (and therefore WTD applies) but are exempt due to type of use. If a 3500kg gross vehicle tows a (goods carrying) trailer it is back in scope of tacho and therefore WTD applies

[worldofceri]

Sorry, but exemption from using a tachograph does not (necessarily) exempt anyone from the Domestic Drivers Hours rules.

 

The GB rules will apply if you drive a van or other commercial vehicle with a maximum permitted gross weight of 3.5 tonnes or less.

 

Source: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?r.i=1082145937&r.l1=1081597476&r.l2=1082103262&r.l3=1084756056&r.l4=1082144445&r.t=RESOURCES&topicId=1082163247

 

The rules are stupidly bloody complex and I won't claim to be an expert, but there's a hell of a lot of pub knowledge on this subject. In fact it's a bit of a bugbear of mine. I've even been told incorrect information by my own Transport Manager before now, so what hope is there for us, really?

[Tayne]

I don't know whether you've noticed that of late our motorway network has been invaded by fleets of Polish registered 3.5t Renault Master curtainsiders, usually with a tiny sleeping pod on the roof.

 

I've not noticed any.

 

Do they look like this?

 

[Felly Magic]

Luxo, if your employed in the transport industry you can legally opt out of the EU working time directive.

 

No.

 

Pretty much everyone in the UK can opt out of the Working Time Directive except "mobile workers" including (but not limited to) drivers. Their hours are governed by the Road Transport (Working Time) Directive, which is essentially the same thing as the WTD except there is no longer any opt-out.

 

Under the RTD you can only work for 48 hours in any week, averaged over up to 26 weeks.

 

Our Polish Renault Master driving friends are subject to these rules and, in the UK, also subject to the Domestic Driver's Hours rules. These are different to the EU rules and basically apply to anyone driving a goods vehicle that doesn't require a tachograph. The maximum driving time under Domestic Driver's Hours is 10 per day, with a maximum duty time of 11 hours.

 

The trouble is, without a tachograph it's fairly difficult to prove exactly how much driving has been done and when. I think it's a legal requirement to keep a record of hours worked, but that's pretty damn easy to falsify.

 

The master WILL be the 3.5t version and will legally require a tacho, but I bet it hasn't got one!

[worldofceri]

It will only need a tacho if it's over 3.5t and/or tows a trailer.

 

This is why the drivers can get away with doing mega-hours even though it's still not legal.