Bus Shite

[Yoss]

  On 01/11/2023 at 18:11, LightBulbFun said:

thats fascinating! I have seen the odd picture of RT97 as RTC1, but I had never seen it in its bomb damaged guise or doored guise before until now, obviously I had read about it on Ians bus stop, but not seen any pictures!

RTC1 holds a bit of fascination to me, not just for the usual reasons, but also because its said it had fluorescent lighting, now RTC1 became a thing in 1947, back then fluorescent lighting was pretty bleeding edge stuff, having only been invented by GEC (and put to market in the US by GE) just before the war in 1938

and in 1947, only 2 sizes of fluorescent tube where on the market in the UK, the 5ft 80W bayonet capped fluorescent tube, and the 4ft 40W Bi-pin tube (although other sizes very quickly came along)

so I would love to know what it had, even just some interior shots to see how it was all laid out! 

but I also wonder just how they drove these fluorescent tubes, they require special control gear to run, and low voltage control gear just did not really exist back then, the Transistor was also only *just* invented it would only be in the 1960's did transistor based inverter ballasts for running tubes from low voltage DC become a thing, as seen on your Routemaster's off-side illuminated advert for example

its possible to generate a high voltage suitable for driving a tube by electromechanical means, this was commonly used in old valve/vacuum tube car radios to generate the high voltage DC supply they need (see @PhilA's Pontiac chieftain for more on that), and it was used to some degree with early low voltage flourcent tube setups, but I have never come across anything like it here in the UK, and it would of probably been a fairly sizeable bit of kit especially if they where 80W tubes 

the other possibility is, did RTC1 just have a 240V AC "generator" onboard for running the lighting system? 

 

but I have just never been able to find anything on it sadly, I mean there are some bus enthusiasts who know things in vast fine details, but I have not come across any who have studied the details so fine as to know a buses lighting system in the detail that I am looking for sadly, I fear I am somewhat alone in that regard

and thus I do fear the details of RTC1's setup might be lost to time, but hopefully something can be found!

 

 

 

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I've no idea either. I don't think I've seen any pictures of the inside either. I even checked back with Ians Bus Stop before I posted the above. Once upon a time I could have recited the details off the top of my head but things start falling out of your brain as time goes by. 

As you say, I'm sure somebody out there still knows these things, there are still a lot of RT cranks out there but I don't know how you would find them. 

[PhilA]

I would hazard a guess the tubes were run off a simple transformer and vibrator circuit, off the bus' battery.

Easily make several hundred watts that way for all the tubes, and no rectification required.

 

Phil

[SunnySouth]

   On 31/10/2023 at 21:38,  Yoss said: 

RTC 1, the experimental RT Green Line coach. Started off as standard RT 97 but suffered bomb damage in the war. 

Now that looks like a write off to you and me doesn't it? I mean you can see the framework is bent inwards on both decks. But not for the boys at Chiswick, they obviously just saw it as a challenge. 

It was actually rebuilt as a standard RT first with an experimental rear door before going full RTC 1.

Goes to show how old buses were infinitely repairable. 

Without wanting to be a miserable bastard of a spoilsport, surely they must have just rebodied it?!!

[Inspector Morose]

It was first sent to Tyburn Road Works in Birmingham but the money allocated was not sufficient for them to rebuild it. BCT had previously rebuilt another bomb damaged RT for LT and could easily be distinguished by a peak in the rain guttering around the front dome.

The book “the pre-war RTs” is a fascinating treasure trove of information on the early RTs, it may have the info about the lighting in RTC1 when I can remember where I put it.

[Yoss]

  On 01/11/2023 at 22:15, SunnySouth said:

 

   On 31/10/2023 at 21:38,  Yoss said: 

RTC 1, the experimental RT Green Line coach. Started off as standard RT 97 but suffered bomb damage in the war. 

Now that looks like a write off to you and me doesn't it? I mean you can see the framework is bent inwards on both decks. But not for the boys at Chiswick, they obviously just saw it as a challenge. 

It was actually rebuilt as a standard RT first with an experimental rear door before going full RTC 1.

Goes to show how old buses were infinitely repairable. 

Without wanting to be a miserable bastard of a spoilsport, surely they must have just rebodied it?!!

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Certainly if it had gone to Aldenham that would be most likely but it went to Chiswick (as far as I've read, I wasn't actually there) which was LTs experimental and test centre. They just liked messing about with stuff so would have rebuilt it. 

[Inspector Morose]

Aldenham wasn't really set up for full-scale rebuilds until the late '40s at the earliest with the site reaching full operation around 1956.

Experimental was full of weird and wonderful ideas. In Colin Curtis's book about the subject, he delves into the work of experimental and some of the weird and wonderful tests and creations that came out of there. As an aside, there were two projects rubber-stamped at the same time, one being the aforementioned coach RT and the other, what became Routemaster. Some of the experimental work done on the cooling system and suspension of RTC1 was transferred over to the Routemaster project (and later returned to with FRM1). It was the criticism of hard riding that swayed the team to investigate coil and air suspension fo the new bus design.

RTC1 had a short life after its last rebuild and was withdrawn around 1953, moving to Chiswick (experimental dept) for a couple of years. After final withdrawal, it was sold on to Vernons Pools and lasted as a staff bus for another 6 years,  longer than LT got out of it after spending so much money and time messing about with it (slightly unfair as the budget for its first rebuild came from the budget for its bomb damage repair).

[Inspector Morose]

@LightBulbFun it seems that someone who volunteers at the Aldridge Transport Museum has a copy of the service bulletins for RTC1, inside of which might be the information you are looking for. He is Preselector on Flickr so it might pay you to drop him a line on there.

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks for the extra info on what/who to chase up regarding it I must pickup a copy of that book by Colin Curtis and give it a good read, can you remind me the name of it? I know ya mentioned it at the FoD when I last bothered you about RTC1's lighting, but It sadly escapes me at the moment!

it also mentioned by Ians Bus stop that after its green line duties it lost its fluorescent lighting, so that might make things even complicated if the only interior shots are from later in life!

 

speaking of RT oddities, I notice that RT97 in its blown up guise, has 2 level head lamps, I thought the "pre-war" RT's had their offside head lamp mounted low down below the cab?

[Yoss]

  On 02/11/2023 at 14:14, Inspector Morose said:

 

RTC1 had a short life after its last rebuild and was withdrawn around 1953, moving to Chiswick (experimental dept) for a couple of years. After final withdrawal, it was sold on to Vernons Pools and lasted as a staff bus for another 6 years,  longer than LT got out of it after spending so much money and time messing about with it (slightly unfair as the budget for its first rebuild came from the budget for its bomb damage repair).

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And to be fair, being very much experimental, what they learnt from it was probably worth more than the physical bus itself.

[Inspector Morose]

  On 02/11/2023 at 14:45, LightBulbFun said:

speaking of RT oddities, I notice that RT97 in its blown up guise, has 2 level head lamps, I thought the "pre-war" RT's had their offside head lamp mounted low down below the cab?

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A number got the twin headlight conversion, in "The First RTs" book, there's a picture of the apparatus that marked where the offside headlight was to be put.

The Colin Curtis book was called "40 Years with London Transport" IIRC. I lent my copy to someone years ago but never received it back, a great shame because it was a fascinating read. The story of RTW100 and the fluid flywheel tests was bloody hilarious!

[jon.k]

What’s going on with this? Seen on the Severn Bridge earlier,  in the wind. It must have been a bit hairy to drive.

[Yoss]

  On 02/11/2023 at 19:34, jon.k said:

What’s going on with this? Seen on the Severn Bridge earlier,  in the wind. It must have been a bit hairy to drive.

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Well that's tasteful*. Though to be honest it's no worse than some of the 1980s liveries they ended up in. It's also a Dartmaster so doesn't have much of the original Routemaster left in it

[brownnova]

Spotted at a yard just down the hill from me… 

[Zelandeth]

  On 02/11/2023 at 20:24, brownnova said:

Spotted at a yard just down the hill from me… 

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Nice.  Imagine that's a B58 or B10M under there...steering wheel looks chunky for a B58 so guessing the latter.

No matter, I'd happily daily that either way.

That era for me really was peak coach.  Fast forward ten more years and all the wood and chrome had given way to plastic and carpet - always felt like an occasion when we went on a trip on a Dominant or Supreme - Paramount, Premiere etc just felt so dull in comparison.

[quicksilver]

  On 02/11/2023 at 20:36, Zelandeth said:

Nice.  Imagine that's a B58 or B10M under there...steering wheel looks chunky for a B58 so guessing the latter.

No matter, I'd happily daily that either way.

That era for me really was peak coach.  Fast forward ten more years and all the wood and chrome had given way to plastic and carpet - always felt like an occasion when we went on a trip on a Dominant or Supreme - Paramount, Premiere etc just felt so dull in comparison.

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It's an early B10M, new to Swinards of Ashford as WFX 75X, and must be one of very few surviving Viewmasters. Goodwins of Stockport took over A N Andrew and it looks like they're using the yard to store some of their classic fleet.

[Zelandeth]

  On 02/11/2023 at 21:33, quicksilver said:

It's an early B10M, new to Swinards of Ashford as WFX 75X, and must be one of very few surviving Viewmasters. Goodwins of Stockport took over A N Andrew and it looks like they're using the yard to store some of their classic fleet.

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Never even clocked that was a Viewmaster...ten points for observation to me.  Derp.

Knew the owner of this one which had just come to the end of a pretty long road in the bodywork department when pictured back in 2012.

I know it's since been repainted in either it's original or a period livery, but sadly I've not seen the coach or its owner since then as group shunted them off to the far end of the country not long after this photo was taken.

It was reassuring though to see a bus company being run by someone who owned several preserved vehicles of their own though - not surprising that was a good period for Bluebird I guess!

[brownnova]

  On 02/11/2023 at 21:33, quicksilver said:

Goodwins of Stockport took over A N Andrew and it looks like they're using the yard to store some of their classic fleet.

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Bingo!

I think they’re possibly using it to maintain classic fleet as it’s over a large set of bus ramps there, and there was an older bus over it a week or so back, but I never got a chance to pap it before it retreated inside. A fair few modern buses on site too. 

[Yoss]

First bus of the day, RTW 75. Can't be bad.

[Yoss]

[Yoss]

I've no objection to cycle lanes in sensible places but this doesn't look like one. Anyway RT 2293 now on the 68 to Waterloo.

I nabbed the prime seat.

[Yoss]

This was a bit of a surprise.

 

[Yoss]

Back to Camden on RT 1702.

Where one of those newfangled Titans turned up.

 

Now on RML 903 on a 31 to Swiss Cottage.

[cms206]

  On 05/11/2023 at 12:17, Yoss said:

This was a bit of a surprise.

 

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We were on that on it's first run of the day... it was driven *very* enthusiastically! Beautiful.

 

We're on T567 just now.

[Yoss]

  On 05/11/2023 at 12:54, cms206 said:

We were on that on it's first run of the day... it was driven *very* enthusiastically! Beautiful.

 

We're on T567 just now.

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If it turns up I'll certainly give it a go but it's pot luck what turns up as I don't have individual bus diagrams.

I'm sat in Chalk Farm Road now and just let bag of shite go. I'd rather walk.

Then RM 29 turned up, looked good but when it got closer also turned out to be a Dartmaster so I'm still here.

[Yoss]

Found it! 

It's very Routemastery inside.

[Yoss]

And then by pure luck got this back again. 

 

The moquette of our youth. Some of us anyway.

 

Mmm, green.

Last bus of the day for me, I'm off home after this.

[Yoss]

The brakes need looking at, they squeal quite unpleasantly but apart from that it seems like a nice bus.

 

This place is rather bustling. Hampstead Heath. 

[Yoss]

That really is it, I'm going home now.

[cms206]

One of the (four man!) crew manning the Titan said it had just undergone a brake rebuild... I think I'd have roasted the arse off the brakes to bed them in before running it in service, but to each their own.

Was a decent day! I'm (still) in London for the Ensign running day in December so that'll nicely round off the year.

[LightBulbFun]

Really awesome to see all the pics, and pretty awesome to XF1, I saw XF3 at east grinstead a good few years back, but not seen XF1 until now! must of been on the 24, because IIRC thats one of the routes they did the experimental atlantean OMO trials on and then swapped some of the experimental fleetlines from the country service to try and figure out the reliability woes of the atlanteans  I think?

its really quite interesting to see it trimmed in Routemaster seat fabric like that, was it really trimmed like that in service back in the day or is that something done in preservation? 

and of course always good to see RM's and RT's and the Titan too, I think the Titan has to be one of my favourite post Routemaster double deckers, i'd love to get a chance to ride on one some day