New LAND ROVER DEFENDER... Thoughts?...

[John F]

 

So to be a 'utility' vehicle it can't be good looking? Dammit.

 

Appearance is completely subjective – I think the current Defender is good looking. But a utility vehicle actually has to actually be utilitarian, i.e. form has to follow function. The styling on this DC100 concept owes more to the VW Scirocco and MINI than it does to any utility vehicle on the market, and will inevitably lose out in terms of practicality.

 

For example: the integrated front bumper / valance will need replacing WHEN damaged, probably at prohibitive cost. On a Series or Defender it could just be hammered back into shape.

 

At the moment, I have a spare engine and two gearboxes in the back.

 

I've got a spare truck cab and all of the plumbing for a 200 TDi conversion in the back of my 109

[overheadvalve]

So basically, local councils who need utility vehicles will have no choice but to buy foreign. Land Rover has become a "brand" just like BINI. Sure, lifestyle vehicle have their place, but the Freeloader is there for that. The Defender should be a simple to maitnain utility vehicle. I can't imagine anyone buying on of these and going to Africa in it. The locals would laugh so loudly we would hear it on these shores. I drive my Land Rover daily. Slow, noisy, simple, AND USEFUL to me. Why would I want a cramped shiny box? At the moment, I have a spare engine and two gearboxes in the back. You might laugh, thinking that it's so unreliable, why would I want a spare engine? Well it's 40 years old, and parts are out there, but these bits were free. And they don't need programming to make them work. The current cylinder block is cracked... but still running. Try that in a modern.

Local councils around these parts will continue (as they have for the last 10 odd years) to buy VW, Renault, Ford and anything else Foreign thay can get their greedy mits on, same as farmers, Subaru, Diahatsi etc etc. They have not bought Land Rovers in any significant numbers for a decade imho. Probably because of the price, which may change as has been posted /\ /\ that they may make them in India.

If they can be repaired easily or they will run as you suggest with a cracked block (i don't doubt you ) etc why have sales in Africa gone from over 75% of the market ion the mid 60's to around 10% these days (i've no proof btw)

They *have* to move on.

[overheadvalve]

Albert - surely you wouldn't buy a CURRENT Defender? That makes any complaints about a replacement much weaker. Land Rover are hardly likely (or indeed actually able) to build a vehicle that matches the abilities of a car they built 40 years ago. Even if they did, I can't see any Autoshiter stumping up the £30,000 they'd probably want for one. The only vehicle that has so far managed this is arguably the VW Type 2 now being sold over here in brand new form, and that only proves that some people have more money than sense!

To be hoest any new car with it's programable parts, dpf's cat's etc etc is bollocks compared to any old car, be it a Cortina, LandRover or a bloody Datsun 180b.

 

:tnar trela\:

My take on new cars with all the new car features is kinda like this: Airbags for when you crash, so you can drive your new Audi like a complete c*nt and write off a bus shelter and it's contents of elderly people and then just walk away.nice* I will have the S(for cunt) line model in silver, so i don't have to wash it very often.

Oooh am i ranting sorry

:tnar trela /:

http://www.danburymotorcaravans.com/index.php?option=com_autos&func=detail&id=84

 

£19k

secondhand

Edit:Should the tnar trela be in a section for grumpy old feckers, if their is one?

[PaykanHunter]

I drive my Land Rover daily. Slow, noisy, simple, AND USEFUL to me. Why would I want a cramped shiny box? At the moment, I have a spare engine and two gearboxes in the back. You might laugh, thinking that it's so unreliable, why would I want a spare engine? Well it's 40 years old, and parts are out there, but these bits were free. And they don't need programming to make them work. The current cylinder block is cracked... but still running. Try that in a modern.

Can we see picture of this "40 Year Old Virgin"?

[MK5 Escort]

I saw that picture yesterday and I honestly thought it was a mock-up by some artist. I didn’t realise that was a genuine Land Rover concept vehicle. Jesus...that front end is vile . No doubt current farcical ‘pedestrian safety’ laws has had a part to play in that, which has turned most ‘moderns’ into van-like designs with tall, stubby bonnets...

 

Anyway, a predictable screw-up of a legendary off-roader. About the only ‘true’ no nonsense off-roader left - barring the re-introduction of the Lada Niva.

 

I’m all for moving forward with the times, but the Defender is supposed to be a no-fuss utility vehicle. This distinctly has a waft of ‘lifestyle’ about it. Indeed, look at what happened to the Mini. A little, cheap budget car turned into a bloated and hugely expensive fashion accessory.

 

Low profile tyres have no place off-road. Where’s the tough bumpers? The first touch of the rough stuff and they’ll be scuffed, scratched and split.

 

Good things to say about it? I suppose I like the shade of green in the five door one and maybe the door mirrors...

[andrew e]

My take on this is the Spanish goverment should flog the mothballed (blame Iveco) Santana production line to china, let them stick a rip off non common rail toyota lump in, and sell them back to us at £10999....

[Albert Ross]

Albert - surely you wouldn't buy a CURRENT Defender? That makes any complaints about a replacement much weaker. Land Rover are hardly likely (or indeed actually able) to build a vehicle that matches the abilities of a car they built 40 years ago. Even if they did, I can't see any Autoshiter stumping up the £30,000 they'd probably want for one. The only vehicle that has so far managed this is arguably the VW Type 2 now being sold over here in brand new form, and that only proves that some people have more money than sense!

 

I'd certainly go straight out and buy a 130 HiCap if I had the money. Without a hesitation. I'd use it for it's purpose too. Full 3.5 ton towing ability, the ability to carry 1/2 a ton of whatever if needed, and a full 5/6 seater. And if it got scraped/dented? What of it.....?! I'd go for mingebag spec. Vinyl seats, steel wheels, solid paint colour (White or Red probably), with the only options being the towing pack and heavy duty wheels/tyres. But that's all subjective. I can't afford one. But I will run a Land Rover utility until my dying day.... and I'd prefer the Viking burial....

[Albert Ross]

2009.....

2011.....

 

Note the change of roof.... strangely one of the reasons I like the construction method. I also have a truckcab.

[PaykanHunter]

Respect Albert Ross! I have a soft spot for Series III, they used to be CKD in Iran also under Santana license. Have lots of Memories with them!...

 

Photo from: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sina-r/

[Albert Ross]

Yeah, but mine's a 2a.

[Cavcraft]

Looks like one of those stupid new Minis.

 

Absolutely horrendous.

[PaykanHunter]

Yeah, but mine's a 2a.

OH!... Excuse me!...

[AnthonyG]

All the haters should realise that the Defender is due for death in 2015 come what may. So either they replace it with something the farmers/army/utilities might buy or just give up on the sector.

 

IIRC last years sales were something like 20,000. It can't be sold in the US anymore due to safety regs, and won't meet new EU ones in three years time either.

 

So its either a new one or nothing. Since I doubt any of the moaners on here have actually bought a new one, Land Rover don't care about those who buy their cars when they are 20 years old!

 

It was the same story with Jaguar 5 years ago with the XF, did they keep on building cars to appeal to the dwindling flat cap brigade, or did they produce something to tempt people who drive other makes. Thankfully Jag made the right decision then, and the XF has been a big success. A pity the new XJ is just a little bit too different-looking...

[dollywobbler]

Yeah, main difference is that the XF is so attractive that even I like it. The XJ is just horrible. Hideously like a snarling dog up front and the rear styling just doesn't work at all. Was that really the best they could do?

[Father Ted]

The crux of that argument Anthony is that Land Rover already have a choice of "lifestyle" vehicles - most of the arguments here are what they have put forward for the new Defender seems to be more of the same, rather than another utility vehicle to replace the outgoing one.

 

maybe if I saw one in the flesh with proper steel wheels and tyres I might feel differently.

[Pete-M]

The XJ is just horrible. Hideously like a snarling dog up front and the rear styling just doesn't work at all. Was that really the best they could do?

 

I thought that the first few times I saw them. Since then I've seen a lot of them on motorways and I've grown to quite like them. Still think the rear 3/4 looks a bit weird on 'em but compare one to a new S class Merc and the Jag starts to look better. Even with the Jag's snarly front end they're a lot better looking than a 7 series, for example. A Jaguar should snarl...

[RoadworkUK]

Yeah, main difference is that the XF is so attractive that even I like it. The XJ is just horrible.

 

See, I'm the opposite on that. I never really liked the XF, it's a pleasant enough shape but the lights don't suit it, and I keep mistaking them for Mondeos. The XJ, though, might be as elegant as a welly full of curry, but it's interesting. It's more of a challenge to the Jaguar senses. I like it, but can understand the thaasands of folk who don't.

[HBR]

Wait & see what it's really like before making judgment, what you see here is images thought up by someone who probably has little idea of who really uses these vehicles & how they use them. They're looking at it from a style point of view & I doubt the engineering department has had much hand in these images. But they will have plenty input into the real thing where they know they need a strong & adaptable chassis & body in the way the curent Defender is.

And legislation of not they do need to do something, I like them but have to admit I can see where many folk quite rightly find fault & buy a Jap 4x4.

[Negative Creep]

Yeah, main difference is that the XF is so attractive that even I like it. The XJ is just horrible.

 

See, I'm the opposite on that. I never really liked the XF, it's a pleasant enough shape but the lights don't suit it, and I keep mistaking them for Mondeos. The XJ, though, might be as elegant as a welly full of curry, but it's interesting. It's more of a challenge to the Jaguar senses. I like it, but can understand the thaasands of folk who don't.

 

 

I hated the headlights on the earlier XF models, but the facelift is a vast improvement. I see a dark blue XJ most days which does look lovely

[PaykanHunter]

Here you GO!!!!.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Negative Creep]

I quite like it in those pictures. The Defender is a utility vehicle and they already have plenty of other choices for WAGS and senior Nail Technicians. Therefore I really can't believe that they will fuck this up and make it a style icon instead of a workhorse

[dollywobbler]

If it turned out that the panels were made of some cheap composite and could be replaced for a fiver using no more than a basic socket set, I think I'd still favour it. If it turns out that you need to remove every single front panel to change a headlamp bulb, and you need eleventy six special tools and a degree in micro-surgery to do so, I shall be distinctly unimpressed.

[eddyramrod]

I really can't believe that they will fuck this up and make it a style icon instead of a workhorse

 

You have more faith in decision-makers than I do then! They WILL fuck it up, guaranteed. I looked at those photos and saw some bloody expensive alloy wheels on rubber-band tyres that won't be replaceable for less than 400 a corner; and the moment you so much as take it up a kerb, that's at least two gone.

 

DW; your second suggestion is the one that will happen. First one? In your dreams...

[Pete-M]

If it turned out that the panels were made of some cheap composite and could be replaced for a fiver using no more than a basic socket set, I think I'd still favour it. If it turns out that you need to remove every single front panel to change a headlamp bulb, and you need eleventy six special tools and a degree in micro-surgery to do so, I shall be distinctly unimpressed.

 

Everyone used to say similar things about the P38 - "Impossible to work on, dodgy electronics, expensive to fix". I've been fiddling with mine today, and yes it's a complicated thing but when you study it properly it's damn cleverly done. Really clever some of it, yet remarkably simple once you understand it. Stuff like the wings etc unbolt the same as on a '48 Series 1. Service parts cost bugger all. £15 for front discs, for example. Name another car that cost over £45k new that has parts that cheap. I can't think of one.

 

I have access to proper diagnostic stuff so I've been able to access things that would have completely stumped most garages not long ago, but with the proper equipment it is insanely easy to do things that must have been mind blowing back in '94. Testing and calibrating the air suspension for example, dead easy, but if you speak to half the 'experts' they slag off the P38 for being hard to work on. It isn't. Speak to half of them and they'll tell you to dump the EAS and fit coil springs. Which is pretty much the perfect way to ruin a P38. It's just they don't understand it because it's 'complicated'.

 

I have faith in Land Rover. They're not going to replace the Defender with something that can't be fixed. They've built Defenders / 90s etc for over 60 years, the company exists because of them. They're not going to screw it up. They're working insanely hard to make sure they don't get it wrong.

 

I was talking to someone this afternoon who works in Jaguar / Land Rover's paint department. They've got the most stringent quality control of anyone in the industry. Really serious quality. Everything is checked and double checked every day. If you're wearing the wrong brand of deodourant they'll send you home rather than risk contaminating the paint plant. They check every single pair of overalls for contamination, every day. If they don't pass the tests they don't get through the door. They're deadly serious about making the best cars they can, as well as possible. They're aiming very high, but I think they may just manage it.

[gtd2000]

I was talking to someone this afternoon who works in Jaguar / Land Rover's paint department. They've got the most stringent quality control of anyone in the industry. Really serious quality. Everything is checked and double checked every day. If you're wearing the wrong brand of deodourant they'll send you home rather than risk contaminating the paint plant. They check every single pair of overalls for contamination, every day. If they don't pass the tests they don't get through the door. They're deadly serious about making the best cars they can, as well as possible. They're aiming very high, but I think they may just manage it.

 

Are you having a laugh?

 

Are the folks that work there simply delusional?

 

Or are you only referring to the paintwork because the rest of the vehicle is certainly letting the side down...?

 

What Car? Reliability Survey 2010 - Land Rover

 

LAND ROVER

32nd out of 32

 

Last year’s position 30th out of 30

Cars needing repair work 53%

Average repair cost £412

Star model Freelander (’03-’06)

Land Rover appears doomed to remain last in our survey, having been bottom for the past eight years. The Range Rover (’02-) edged out the Discovery (’98-’04) to record Land Rover’s worst result, with 59 out of 100 cars failing. The Range Rover also recorded the highest repair bill, at £7126. Even the Freelander (’03-’06) could muster only two stars.

 

land rover reliability controversy.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I have been wanting to start a thread on this topic for quite some time. Land rover has tradationally been known all over the world as the ultimate off road brand and the car of choice for expeditionists, explorers and the military. However, recently, this image of toughness and durability seems to have taken a blow. J.D.Power, a reputed car survey in its most recent report listed Land Rover as the most unreliable car in the world with the most reported cases of faults and breakdowns on brand new vehicles. It does not elaborate which particular models are more troublesome than others but restricts itself to the brand name. Porsche is the most reliable make in the world followed closely by Toyota. BMW and Mercedese are, if I remember correctly, not even in the top 20. American car makers dont fare well either in the survey. Obviously, us land rover lovers dont just love this brand for its degree of reliability. The character of this vehicle, especially the defender and series versions, extends far beyond this one feature in a vehicle. Nevertheless, I do feel saddened by the fact the a car meant for long journeys and hard work would perform so bad in the admiteddly essential category of reliability. Why and where did Land Rover group go wrong? thoughts ppl???

Source: http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/land-rover-reliability-controversy-90824.html

 

I know that during my own experience driving Land Rovers in the Army I was never impressed with them at all - even back in the 1980's they were quite unreliable lumps of shit. Forget all this nonsense about the modern varieties having too many electronics - they were shite even when they were the most basic utilitarian vehicles!

 

Now if you like the look of a Land Rover that's all well and good - I too like the design of them - but reliability it's not a Land Rover trait in my experience - YMMV of course but there's a good reason the Japs took over.

[Guest]

Sod you all, I'm buying a Lada Niva. In orange.

[Pete-M]

They're aiming very high, but I think they may just manage it.

 

Are you having a laugh?

 

I know that during my own experience driving Land Rovers in the Army I was never impressed with them at all - even back in the 1980's they were quite unreliable lumps of shit. Forget all this nonsense about the modern varieties having too many electronics - they were shite even when they were the most basic utilitarian vehicles!

 

Now if you like the look of a Land Rover that's all well and good - I too like the design of them - but reliability it's not a Land Rover trait in my experience - YMMV of course but there's a good reason the Japs took over.

 

I didn't say they've managed it, I said they're aiming high.

 

Land Rover in the '80s was in the same situation as the rest of the UK car industry. Ruined by accountants and union gobshites. Since then they're on their third set of owners. Ford improved the quality tenfold, BMW raped and pillaged, and JLR are doing their utmost to get the new stuff right. Which is why they're bringing in new models and much much higher quality control than has ever happened there before.

[scooters]

statsitics can prove anything.....

 

I suspect the reason for the pisspoor reliability index has a LOT to do with the utter stale jizz wad that is the Freelander. I do not know of ANY owners of one of these pieces of excrament who has not been plagued with problems.

 

Both brothers in law have new Discos - not my cup of tea - far too much to go wrong and they cost a fortune.

 

I have no interest in the new Rangerover because I am not a pimp or a footballer's wife.

 

The Defender is the only one I would consider buying - I suspect LR won't cock it up as military and civil conracts are its bread and butter - I would be surprised if they turn it into a girls blouse.

 

If I was looking to buy a 4x4 new at the moment sorry to say it would be a Jap...Landcruiser I suspect

[Pete-M]

I've driven a few of the current Range Rovers and they are incredible things, miles better than the P38 or any of the Jap rivals I've tried.

 

First one I drove was a 52 plate 4.4 with the BMW engine - which was the least impressive part of it

 

The Jag engined Supercharged one is quite probably my ideal car. I will own one at some point. The TDV8 is one of the few diesels I'd consider. There are not many of those around!

 

The "footballer / pimp" thing is I suspect more to do with the fact that a new Supercharged one is £70k than any fault of the car itself.

[scooters]

I've driven a few of the current Range Rovers and they are incredible things, miles better than the P38 or any of the Jap rivals I've tried.

 

First one I drove was a 52 plate 4.4 with the BMW engine - which was the least impressive part of it

 

The Jag engined Supercharged one is quite probably my ideal car. I will own one at some point. The TDV8 is one of the few diesels I'd consider. There are not many of those around!

 

 

I am they are fantastic...it's just everyone4 I know who owns one is an absolute cunt....

 

especially the driver of the cream 'sport' who had a pop at me in Sainsbury's car park for driving an 'old polluting car' when I parked my immaculate '54 Minor Series 2 next to her...stupid bitch

 

prejudaced I kow but as I am over 40 these days grumpie old twattieness s my earned right