Old barges, where do they fit in?

[Peter C]

Where do old Mercs, BMWs, Audis, Lexuses and Jags fit in?

 

Their first owners paid a premium to enjoy luxury and prestige motoring. Now, say 15 years later, are these cars still seen as premium motors or merely old bangers? Any of the cars shown below can be had for under £1k and providing that you make ECP your best friend, they can be maintained on a budget.

 

Here's my Merc:

 

 

My old Lexus:

 

 

Nice 7 series:

 

 

Cheap Audi:

 

 

Beer money Jag:

 

 

Providing they are clean and tidy, I think that any of the above still make a good impression.

 

What do you reckon?

[r.welfare]

It's certainly a great feeling to own/drive one, when you consider that someone else has born the brunt (often up to 99%, in some examples I've owned!) of the depreciation.

 

Take on board your point about ECP etc, and some members have shown that hugely complex exec cars need not be difficult to diagnose and fix (I'm thinking of TheScrapman and his W140 Benzes here), but that said as a fairly high-mileage driver the economy issue, plus I'm not hard-headed enough to take the decision to throw an example away and start again if something major goes wrong, means that one of these as a daily wouldn't work for me. As a second car though, certainly - and actually, if you're not using it much, things like 20mpg don't matter so much.

 

Also, that intangible prestige/bargain factor you mention tends to mean that the owners in between you and the first keeper can often be dreamers and don't maintain the things properly...so you could inherit a ticking time-bomb. However, the holy grails are out there (one or two-owner cars with a full dealer history that have wanted for nothing in their lifetimes), just can sometimes be difficult to find if you're in a hurry!

[Peter C]

It's certainly a great feeling to own/drive one, when you consider that someone else has born the brunt (often up to 99%, in some examples I've owned!) of the depreciation.

 

Take on board your point about ECP etc, and some members have shown that hugely complex exec cars need not be difficult to diagnose and fix (I'm thinking of TheScrapman and his W140 Benzes here), but that said as a fairly high-mileage driver the economy issue, plus I'm not hard-headed enough to take the decision to throw an example away and start again if something major goes wrong, means that one of these as a daily wouldn't work for me. As a second car though, certainly - and actually, if you're not using it much, things like 20mpg don't matter so much.

 

Also, that intangible prestige/bargain factor you mention tends to mean that the owners in between you and the first keeper can often be dreamers and don't maintain the things properly...so you could inherit a ticking time-bomb. However, the holy grails are out there (one or two-owner cars with a full dealer history that have wanted for nothing in their lifetimes), just can sometimes be difficult to find if you're in a hurry!

 

Agreed, but where do they fit in?

[r.welfare]

Premium motors if you get a good one.

 

Old bangers if you don't - but at least the weighing-in value is greater than a small car.

 

Some are just shite due to design, complexity, image and reputation too.

 

Difficult to look at it in black-and-white terms though, granted.

[HereHareHere]

Insurance pisses all over the luxobarge bonfire if you live in a city and don't have off-street parking. I'm really quite old and have a billion years NCB, but those weightings mean a four-figure quote for anything with a sizeable lump (no broker seems prepared to offer a classic policy on cars located and kept on such a basis).

 

Hence I'm stuck with a 1.3 Maestro, and effectively disenfranchised from voting on this issue.

[garethj]

Any that you still see parked around South Kensington and owned by “old money†are icons of our time – Bentleys, Mercs before 1990 (but I might exclude the S Class) and old shape Range Rovers. These make fine vehicles for bombing about in and will probably last twice as long as lesser cars.

 

Newer Mercs, Lexus, Audis etc I see as a bit less solid as they get older. It’ll be a comfy ride when it’s going, but it’s if, not when the £2000 bill comes along.

 

Any big old car that’s nicely presented still looks great, preferably in a sober colour and with its original cassette player.

[messerschmitt owner]

to the great unwashed - still premium cars!

to me, a chance to own a proper luxury car for fiesta money!

[seth]

All boils down to how well presented one is, though I think some have to be immaculate to pull off a "premium" look these days. I'm looking towards the Lexus here, as it was always a poorer mans Merc in my eyes. Now that you could get a real Merc for similar money why would you trundle around in a Lexus?

 

I find those 7 series BMWs and the big Audis of that time quite pleasurable to look at too. I was passenger in a friends 199x big Audi a couple of years ago and couldn't for the life of me work out why anyone would want anything "more" in a car.

[AnthonyG]

I reckon 'the great unwashed' would regard them as 'bangers' due to age, unless they are in very good condition. The driver also makes a difference I reckon - a smart dressed old gent compared to a obvious pikey.

 

No prestige except to those in the 'know' really. The whole 'premium' thing has taken a battering anyway, from one end by Mercedes making cheaper and more unreliable cars (W210 E class for example), and at the other by the commoness of the smaller BMWs and Audis.

[garethj]

The whole 'premium' thing has taken a battering anyway, from one end by Mercedes making cheaper and more unreliable cars (W210 E class for example), and at the other by the commoness of the smaller BMWs and Audis.

I think Pog was getting comments about how well he must be doing to run that shiny Beemer of his, when it cost less than a rusty old Ka. Sometimes a prestige brand hangs on for a very long time

[Cavcraft]

The whole 'premium' thing has taken a battering anyway, from one end by Mercedes making cheaper and more unreliable cars (W210 E class for example), and at the other by the commoness of the smaller BMWs and Audis.

I think Pog was getting comments about how well he must be doing to run that shiny Beemer of his, when it cost less than a rusty old Ka. Sometimes a prestige brand hangs on for a very long time

 

Funny how that owning a certain brand of car (not just BMW) seems to attract people who think you're minted and the occasional owner who proudly tells everyone he owns a BMW or whatever.

I've lost count how many times my wife's mates and people I know have told all and sundry they or their husband has a 'flash' car or batted on about their BMW or Merc and when you finally see it it's some 20 year old heap with chrome arches or a pound shop special 'M3' badge.

Obviously not all owners are like that.

[scooters]

I lurve luxobarges - in the last 3 years have owned:

 

Mk1 LS400

Jag XJ40 Sov

Daimler XJ40 Sov

Daimler XJ40 Double Six

535i E34

 

but my favorite HAS to have been:

Series 3 Daimler Sov

 

the moment I can afford it I'm goona get myself a nice series 3 Daimler XJ6 as a daily

[Tartan58]

If you' get a clean example I reckon your average jo or jane in the street who doesn't have an interest in cars wouldn't know any better about it's age or value. Take the examples given in the original post, with the possible exception of the Merc (don't get me wrong it's simply wonderful and would probably be my choice but it does look more dated than the likes of the 7 series or the A8) you could stick a private reg on and most folk would think you'd come into some money.

 

As a case in point we have a 2004 top spec Mondeo (ok not exactly a luxuary barge in the truest sence but stick with me) with a private plate (don't start!) and most of our friends think we must be loaded or make comments about us being "posh" with our big fancy car with leather etc. not realising that they could have bought several identical cars for the price they've just paid for their new base spec fiesta or similar.

 

In summary(!) big old barges are a win win situation, the great unwashed know no better and those of us who are enlightened admire your cannyness(?) and general refusal to follow the crowd.

[Peter C]

Some interesting comments there.

 

I do agree that the appearance of the driver plays a part in giving the right impression. I consider myself a good looking gent in my mid to late 30s, usually wearing a shirt and tie whilst driving my W124. Fuck. I probably look like a cabby.

 

You see, in my opinion, a Merc is a Merc, a Jag is a Jag, etc. Just because they are old, doesn't mean they've lost pedigree. On the other hand, as good as they are nowadays, a Mondeo will always be just a Mondeo and a Vectra is just a pile of rep-mobile shit. You would never catch me driving either. Whilst you can buy 20 W124s for the price of a second hand Vectra, the Merc will always have the upper hand when it comes to prestige.

[r.welfare]

I consider myself a good looking gent in my mid to late 30s, usually wearing a shirt and tie whilst driving my W124. Fuck. I probably look like a cabby.

 

What you want is to team a Harris tweed jacket with a checked shirt and some burgundy cords for the "old money/landed gentry" look

[garethj]

What you want is to team a Harris tweed jacket with a checked shirt and some burgundy cords for the "old money/landed gentry" look

Yellow corduroy is good too, if burgundy clashes with the car. It doesn't show up the Labrador hair so much

[ChinaTom]

As a barge owner myself, I have just checked the wardrobe for conformity. Not one but 2 pairs of yellow corduroys, 3 tweed jackets - by Jove even a pair of breeks and matching wess'c't. Cursory glance in the mirror reveals I am wearing a Viyella shirt and a sleeveless jumper. There is even a BRG Rover 75 outside the house today. Old money? I wish. Old money to me means a crumpled up fiver or a well stamped-on penny. An old Peseta or Pfennig maybe.

 

I have calculated that despite the huge sums spent on the old thing lately, I have still spent less on it in during our time together than I would have lost in depreciation had I had it from new.

[Split_Pin]

I agree that any older car, if well presented can still be a respectable form of transport. A mint series 1 Audi A8 still looks spot on to me and quite rare and I'm similarly impressed with a BMW 7 series. I particularly love the late 80's ones, even with a cloth interior.

 

Dare I say it, one of Fatha_L's golfing buddies had a friend in the auction trade. He was sick of depreciation but still wanted a luxury car that would cut it in the golf car park. So he found him a 10-year old Scorpio ( this was a few year ago) on a K-plate or something. It was 'fully loaded' as they say in the trade with leather, alloys and air con, and cost less than a grand. My dad was impressed with its condition.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

I've only had a couple of 'lower order' barges, a Ford Scorpio and Rover 800, both fitted with diesels. Where do they fit in? WHERE?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Gompo]

I'm not sure how to reply partly because I dont exactly know what youre asking, but I'm not the biggest fan - partly because all the 'obvious' choices bore me. It's nothing against the cars as such, as the reason why old Mercs and BMWs are popular is because they're pretty good at the job they do, but whenever you see a 'What Barge?' type thread is the German marques that dominate.

 

Some are definitely shite, some are just shit. Lots of pikey/Barry/Barry's Dad's 90s Mercs about which are of course amusing but shit. Quality good condition examples are usually run by 'old boy' types are just that - quality. You can tell some of the owners think they're above other road users/car owners which can be annoying, but a good laugh in their face will confuse them.

[Pete-M]

I've only had a couple of 'lower order' barges, a Ford Scorpio and Rover 800, both fitted with diesels. Where do they fit in? WHERE?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

They don't. The Rover 800 due to it's being utter shit and having a diesel lump, and the Scorpio for being diesel. At best, company manager wheels.

 

Anyway. I love my old barges as I'm sure may be slightly obvious.

 

The XJR still gets envious looks and comments of "This is nice" from passengers. The SD1 got about 100 times as many comments, normally followed by the likes of "My dad had one of these, it was great. He replaced it with a diesel Renault, I've never forgiven him", or "I had one of those, mine was the 2.6 though, and it rotted away". The SD1 always seems to get positive comments. The Jag is more discreet. Normally just "Great colour, love the reg, is it as quick as they say?"

 

My Frogeye Scorpio 24v Ultima - which I rated quite highly - just used to get "Good cars those, but it's bloody ugly innit?"

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

What's wrong with 800s? They work out approximately as shonky as the revered SAAB 9000.

[Peter C]

What's wrong with 800s?

 

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

That's my list of foes on autoshite.

[fiatdaft]

great !

[dieselnutjob]

 

Discuss.....

[danthecapriman]

^^

 

They are utter shit, one of those, with a blind tosser driving it wrote itself off hitting my Volvo 740 in the rear! It was totalled, the front door wouldnt even open! my car had a scuffed rear bumper, cracked light lense and slightly bent exhaust tail pipe!

 

They, like most cars of the age are bland, disposable shit.

[Pete-M]

What's wrong with 800s? They work out approximately as shonky as the revered SAAB 9000.

 

Aye. The Saab 9000 is a pretty shonky old barge.

 

The Rover 800 just disappoints on so many levels. Crashing lack of ride quality, the 2.7s total lack of torque, the shonky as fuck build quality (and don't forget, I like SD1s...), and the fact that although Tony Pond managed to make one do improbably quick things around the I.O.M, I got absolutely zero enjoyment out of the one I had.

 

I think some of them look rather nice, and I have a sneaky admiration for the Coupé, but the total lack of suspension travel ruins them for me. They'll ride well over little bumps, but anything more than that and it all goes hideously, noisily, uncomfortably wrong. Bumps that even a Stanza can just about manage to smother, make an 800 lose the plot completely.

 

Don't get me wrong, the SD1 ain't perfect, not by a long run, but it was a hell of a lot better than the 800 if you wanted to enjoy a nice relaxing British luxury motor. If it didn't break down.

 

Saab 9000s I don't understand. I've thought about buying one a few times, but it would have to be a top spec fast one, and they've all got knackered engines or have done 300k.

[warren t claim]

I suppose I should comment on this thread as I drive the same car as the OP and I'm a former Rover 800 owner.

 

All they are is a couple of cheap and comfortable cars you can purchase for less than a weeks wages and weigh in for scrap when they go pop. The Merc has ace fuel economy in it's favour which is quite important when you do 500 miles a week like I do.

 

Oh, and I drive it wearing whatever I want to, if someone sees me in my scruff holding a Mercedes Benz keyring and assumes I'm driving a Sprinter then so be it.

[shite_meister]

I've always been into big barges, always (he says hiding his old classic shape Mini) why have cotton when you can have silk?

 

I've currently got a 1992 Lexus LS400, its fappin brilliant if a bit typically japanesey bland in design, for me the engineering behind the LS400 is top notch, it drives like new and still feels rock solid. The only thing I don't like about it is the wallowy ride which is where I prefer a big beemer although they veer more towards a sporting character than luxury (for me anyway), one day I will have me that seven series or a big Merc 500 Coupe from the eighties.

 

I've always wanted a Jag XJ8...the supercharged V8 in black, for me they have the perfect balance of luxury and sporting.

 

My Lexus often gets a few comments usually by older people who aren't into cars who assume it must have cost me a fortune, it didn't, it cost me £200! not bad for a car that still works perfectly well and cost someone once approx £42k when new.