Area 52 Visit (MOAR to come).

[Minimad5]

Peaceful times ahead i see .....

 

I like the whole idea of Area 52, as it's a great chance for everyone who is enthusiastic about cars, to get involved.

And for those who are "Not in the know" to learn.

 

Not going to lie it wasn't all my cup of tea (Or rat dropping sugar ) ..... but the guys there seemed to be enjoying themselves and thats all that matters.

I did feel a tadge awkward, as everyone seemed to be on the same playing field - Apart from me. But that may also be due to not knowing the people or place.

Have to say the guy who sat opposite an to the left of me (Mark) - seemed a nice chap.

 

I'd happily go there if i was passing or within the area, so i can get to understand Area 52 and the people who go there more.

 

Put in a metal lathe and give me a sleeping bag = Happy Minimad5

[Minimad5]

Have another snap or two !

 

Dieselzzz POWER ...

Racking up the miles

Jon's "Drive like you stole it" face

eerm "Drive like Stevie Wonder" ...

Traditional Meal

[pogweasel]

I am sure it's all jolly good fun and that, and it is just that I am an miserable, bitter misanthrope who cannot believe that someone would be so generous with their time & money without any reward.

 

On a completely unrelated* note, my copy of "Bruce Holder Monthly" arrived today. I have decided that I will definately NOT be renewing my subscription. In fact were it not for the (excellent) write up of life at Ratdat Towers and the latest installment of Seth's Engineering Corner, I probably would have lobbed the thing straight in the bin.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

BITTER MAN.

[Mr Lobster]

I realy don't understand why there should be any rivalry between AS and RR.

 

+1

 

Area 52 looks like a laugh to me. If there was something similar up here I'd definately have a look.

[Guest]

I realy don't understand why there should be any rivalry between AS and RR.

 

+1

 

Area 52 looks like a laugh to me. If there was something similar up here I'd definately have a look.

 

I'd do something similar in Stockport, but it isn't entirely my unit. We're not as KOOL as the A52 kids anyway. SCTSH_ANDY isn't keen on unfamiliar people anyway.

[Guest]

That Mystery Machine guy seems like a thoroughly decent chap, I'm not sure I've ever met him but I know people who have bought stuff from him.

 

Can't say I'd enjoy being at one of those meets, they all look like young cool guys who are having a good time and situations like that fill me with dread. At least with any kind of Autoshite meet-up, it's mostly socially-awkward people who don't like to leave their house very often. Much more my bag.

[barrett]

...And even then you don't bother.

I put on my best windbreaker too

[autofive]

BITTER MAN.

 

i love bitter, and i quite like stout too

[Mr Lobster]

they all look like young cool guys who are having a good time and situations like that fill me with dread.

 

I did notice that there were people in the pictures with fashionable hair cuts. Which is not something I possess.

[Alexg]

Looks like a fun place to be, and could help give that mojo boost that working on your own sometimes fails to deliver.

[Albert Ross]

I guess I'm just a little confused by it all really. Not being a subscriber to RR, and by the looks of it, thankfully...... I don't get the "trend" of lowering EVERYTHING and fitting wide wheels to it. I like 'em just how God intended, or indeed Henry Ford, Lord Nuffield, Adam Opel, etc.... As for this place, I don't "get" it either. I do everything I need myself, outside at home or at work. I have access to full lifting equipment in a clean, well lit modern workshop, obviously permission from the Boss is required first like... I think I'm either turning into a complete miserable bastard, or already am one. There are times I look at some of these abortions and want to slam someone's head through the windscreen in thanks. Some of the cars I see have survived 30-40 years or more, relatively unscathed except for the "Harry Moss" range from Halfrauds, stuck in with self tappers in the 80s. Why spoil them now? Maybe I still haven't understood correctly. I feel some of the crap I see on the roads would have had a better end on the banger track.................. And that's a rare thought for me. I'm into preservation. Destruction by crashing or applying tools unnecessarily is the same either way to me.

 

It looks like the exact OPPOSITE of fun to me Alex! I prefer to work without distractions.

 

 

Should I post this in the GOM thread too?

[Alexg]

It looks like the exact OPPOSITE of fun to me Alex! I prefer to work without distractions.

 

 

Fair enough mate, this probably isnt the tread for you then

[dollywobbler]

Have to say, the big fear with something like that is that a 'Bickle' will happen. They tell their friends, they tell their friends, they tell their friends then fire happens. I can understand your mate's concerns Wat about inviting all and sundry for a 'play' in the workshop.

 

There are times when I'm tinkering in the garage when I think it'd be nice to have others around though - usually because I'm much less inclined to lose my rag and throw my tools around if there's someone else there. It's an expensive habit sometimes this car tinkering lark.

[Rocket88]

I guess I'm just a little confused by it all really. Not being a subscriber to RR, and by the looks of it, thankfully...... I don't get the "trend" of lowering EVERYTHING and fitting wide wheels to it. I like 'em just how God intended, or indeed Henry Ford, Lord Nuffield, Adam Opel, etc.... As for this place, I don't "get" it either. I do everything I need myself, outside at home or at work. I have access to full lifting equipment in a clean, well lit modern workshop, obviously permission from the Boss is required first like... I think I'm either turning into a complete miserable bastard, or already am one. There are times I look at some of these abortions and want to slam someone's head through the windscreen in thanks. Some of the cars I see have survived 30-40 years or more, relatively unscathed except for the "Harry Moss" range from Halfrauds, stuck in with self tappers in the 80s. Why spoil them now? Maybe I still haven't understood correctly. I feel some of the crap I see on the roads would have had a better end on the banger track.................. And that's a rare thought for me. I'm into preservation. Destruction by crashing or applying tools unnecessarily is the same either way to me.

 

It looks like the exact OPPOSITE of fun to me Alex! I prefer to work without distractions.

 

 

Should I post this in the GOM thread too?

 

Eventually, we all turn into our parents....................................[in my day etc etc] because we don't understand, we should not condemn.

[scruff]

Hey at least they are having a go at stuff and not being armchair experts. I imagine its quite a good laugh, can't comment on the cliqueness but you get that to a certain extent anywhere.

[Albert Ross]

Thankfully I'm nothing like my Dad in that respect. He was happier with whatever company car he got, couldn't give a fig about old stuff. Except his beloved Pianos. 1840s Gors und Kallman Baby Grand in the study, and a Broadwood Concert Grand in the 2nd Sitting Room at the end of the house......... and a generic Late Victorian Upright in the hallway.

 

It makes us sound rich, until I reveal we rented a bloody great house off the local Church for 12 quid a week up till about 1978...

 

Yes, he was a miserable old cunt, like me, I just can't understand WHY people do it. I've never heard a really good reason from anyone who does it. It's more of a latest fashion thing, and I'll be glad when it's all over. They must be AWFUL to drive. I saw one yesterday struggling to get over a slightly rough piece of road... He nearly ripped his front chin spoiler off, and it's a major road, in need of resurfacing, not a side road. I just don't see how anyone can justify the "conversion" when the manufacutrer spends loads of time and money optimising suspension settings just so someone with a grinder and no idea can attack the car and ruin it, all for the sake of "A bit of a laugh really" (Yes, that's one reason I heard from a proud owner) God help anyone on the pavement when something finally snaps and it aims for the nearest bus stop queue. What's wrong with leaving it standard? Does it hurt that much to be safe?

 

I'd best fuck off before I explode TBH..........

 

Hey.. I'm no armchair expert. I examine cars for a living. I'm damned good at it. One of the only things I am good at though.............

[scruff]

Wasn't referring to you there mate, you're just a miserable old twat

[Cavcraft]

I can understand them being a bit wary of strangers. I expect it's like a gang of mates arsing about with cars and having a laugh. Can't imagine it being too difficult to view newcomers/strangers with a slight air of caution, they have a lot of gear and stuff in there and they won't know all newcomers personally.

 

Anyhow good on them, sounds like a great way to spend sometime with likeminded people all mucking in and enjoying themselves.

[seth]

It's more of a latest fashion thing, and I'll be glad when it's all over.

 

Its been a "latest fashion thing" for quite a while

 

 

 

 

Bruce is a top bod and brave to open up his unit like he does. I also like him because he drove over 200 miles (round trip) yesterday to come and strip parts off the MX5 himself and then give me actual money for them.

[AnthonyG]

Area 52 sounds fine, back in Wales most Saturdays me and some friends always meet up at another mates garage, talk bollocks about that weeks news, who we fancied from 70s sitcoms (Paula Wilcox and Penelope Keith for me ), drink tea and very occasionaly work on one of our cars. It's a bit like Area 52, with a lot less work and a lot more Volvos (Buzz's garage specialises in them) with the occasional Ford, Land Rover or Vauxhall.

 

Wat has seen this place too - he is a well travelled man.

[Albert Ross]

That's a well executed lowering job... not like some of the bastardised heaps I see...

[Mr Lobster]

There are times when I'm tinkering in the garage when I think it'd be nice to have others around though - usually because I'm much less inclined to lose my rag and throw my tools around if there's someone else there. It's an expensive habit sometimes this car tinkering lark.

 

Same here. Its good to have a bit of assistance or mojo boost when you get stuck with something as well.

[Guest]

I am sure it's all jolly good fun and that, and it is just that I am an miserable, bitter misanthrope who cannot believe that someone would be so generous with their time & money without any reward.

 

Well if I can Pog, surely it wouldn't be a huge leap for you to as well? I'm deeply suspicious of any supposed altruistic motives, and I thought instead that A52 was some kind of collective where everyone mucks in and shares the bills. Bruce doesn't pay for everything - he shares some of the space with another lad (Morgs) and a sculptor who travels around the country.

 

I can see where Mr. Ross is coming from as well - but with slightly less vitriol. All I see are some photos of some slightly too fashionable lads dicking about with a low MX-5 that's worth two tenths of fuck all anyway. I had to stifle my incredulity a bit however when Bruce's car couldn't get on to the ramp without blocks and scuffed the chin spoiler driving in and out of the unit.

 

It's not my car so I can't object too much, even though I struggle to see the point of 'slamming' a car to the point where it bump steers, tramlines and puts undue stress on all of the driveline components. I agree that it's going too far just to ascribe to some sub-cultural canon of car modifying. I'm not against lowering per se, so long as it's done properly. Done right lowering can massively improve the way a car responds and handles, so long as you realise you're using up some of the Issigonis margin built into the chassis by the factory. Hence why I have a set of V-Performance progressive rate springs and a set of Koni Classics on the way for the Amazon. I'm lowering it so that it'll drive better rather than conforming to a tacitly held statement of fashion. The springs I'm fitting will have been properly tempered and treated, rather than chopped unevenly by a two quid B&Q Sawz-All. Sorry little Johnny, but when you're altering the physical properties of how a fundamental part of your car behaves, you and your fucking hacksaw do not know better than a pre eminent car manufacturer.

 

Then again, we're coming at it from different ends of the spectrum. I'm doing it because I'm keen to improve the basically sound handling of a 45 year old car, and modifying the spring rate of coils the same age with a blade does not bode well for my sphincter whilst out on the road. Little Johnny is doing it to fit in. If I had a pound for every jaded scenester, old hot rodder or general car reprobate who's told me to 'slam the Amazon to the floor', I wouldn't be too far shy off a ton.

I think my life and the lives of my passengers are worth a few hundred quid well spent on new springs and dampers instead of hair gel and aviator sunglasses.

Of course, I'm making generalisations here. I have several friends of whom I hold a deep respect for who chop the coils on their cars, and they're adamant that they've never had any trouble. Never say never, especially when crucial parts of your car are concerned.

 

I have no problem with A52 per se. It's a bold gesture and anything like that is bound to provoke discussion, not all of it positive. If something similar took place in the locales of our detractors, would you really dismiss it as you have here? A chance to meet up with like minded people and get some work done on your cars? I can't comment, because my unit is useful in a different sense, even if the roof is made from reclaimed telegraph poles. I think the majority of negative opinions here stem from the mentality behind Area 52 itself - that same breathless, almost forced insistence on positivity and fun that most 'Shiters find off putting. It gets to me sometimes, but I can see the benefits as well as my glass emptying and smashing on the floor.

 

On a completely unrelated* note, my copy of "Bruce Holder Monthly" arrived today. I have decided that I will definately NOT be renewing my subscription. In fact were it not for the (excellent) write up of life at Ratdat Towers and the latest installment of Seth's Engineering Corner, I probably would have lobbed the thing straight in the bin.

 

Retro Cars. Hmm, a sticky wicket. I preferred in its previous incarnation under Future Publishing. The onus was more on fast road and track day builds, which better fit in with my expectations of a modified classic car magazine. Under its new guise the production standards have definitely gone up, but a painful VW bias afflicted the early issues which has thankfully been tempered. That the Performance VW team were behind the revival comes as no surprise. I think in the early days of circulation they were relying on an inherited audience from the undoubtedly massive crowd that keeps and modifies VWs.

I'm grateful it exists, but I'd rather trade a bit of photographic gloss for some better proof reading and a few less articles of air cooled Dubs with low beams and shiny wheels. If I wanted that I'd read a VW mag. Not that this corner of the old car world is insignificant, it's just other publications are available and there are so many other cars worthy of attention from a supposed all - marque magazine. For the money it feels a trifle lightweight, but the concept is sound and I still prefer it to PPC, which comes across as half arsed and overly opinionated. I am a subscriber, and unless the quality dips again, will remain one. I wonder how many of the core readership sub C&SC as well?

 

Breathing is overrated.

[seth]

 

Retro Cars. Hmm, a sticky wicket.

 

Just had a quick look at the contents pages of the last years worth of RC and have found 3 aircooled VW feature cars, one a Type 3 notchback, one a full size replica of a Tamiya RC car and the third a Brasilia. At an average of 4 or 5 feature cars per issue that makes it about 5% aircooled.

 

Also all automotive springs will have been properly tempered and treated. Chopping them won't change that, only inappropriate heating.

 

Albert, there have been inappropriate lowering jobs done for decades. Heating springs till they sagged was very common amongst custom guys in the '50s. I'm pretty sure Watson cut and shut wishbones in order to get his cars low enough and maintain some suspension movement.

 

[Mr Lobster]

Justed picked up my copy of RC in town today. Yes its a bit 'scene' and a little bit too trendy but I still like it and will still continue to buy it. I was actually thinking of a subscription and nothing I've seen has changed that opinion.

 

For my money, it's the best thing out there. Can't abide PPC, some of the articles could be good if only they carried less attitude with them so I don't even bother with that when I'm on holiday. It can't be easy catering for a very broad range of marques spread across a very long period of time and I'd say they get it about right most of the time. There was a bit too much VW stuff at first but you can't really blame them for that as Wat says. Be nicer if some of the articles were a bit meatier but you can't win 'em all I suppose.

[Guest]

 

Retro Cars. Hmm, a sticky wicket.

 

Just had a quick look at the contents pages of the last years worth of RC and have found 3 aircooled VW feature cars, one a Type 3 notchback, one a full size replica of a Tamiya RC car and the third a Brasilia. At an average of 4 or 5 feature cars per issue that makes it about 5% aircooled.

 

Sorry, I meant VWs as a whole. The earlier issues were dominated by VW tuning news, companies and products, and they were even using VAG engine codes in the general section. I mean, who the hell other than a dubber is going to know what type of engine an ABF \ ABU \ AGU is?

As I said, I'm not anti-VW (although I struggle to understand the insane money they command, new and used) and I don't mind seeing the odd VW article in Retro Cars. It's just, well, there are specific outlets for that sort of thing.

 

I'll quite happily defer to your superior knowledge of springs Seth. So cutting a properly tempered and heat treated spring (that was of the correct length, once) doesn't affect its elastic range \ properties at all without heating? What about cable tying them onto the spring cups? I suppose they're more likely to fall out rather than fail completely - although a missing spring is quite a serious failure....

[seth]

No you're right about RC to start with. There were too many VW (though mostly water cooled) parts, terms etc creeping in everywhere but I think they established their own path quite quickly. There is a buyers guide to the Mk1 Golf in the new issue but then they cannot ignore the VW scene as it, along with the OSF scene probably make up 50% of their market alone.

 

If you cut a spring its spring rate will increase a little as the rate is partly dependent on its length and number of coils both of which you are reducing. This is a good thing though as you would normally want your shorter spring to be stiffer, as the "proper" ones you're getting will be. It is always said on RR when spring cutting is done that they must seat properly afterwards. On some cars this is easier to achieve than others. If they are made short enough that they go loose at full drop then there are various ways of sorting this. As SOC will tell you, they can dislocate at full drop and pass an MOT as long as they are guided back into the cups and cannot fall out altogether. There is an aspect of coil spring design where by the metal is twisted (which is what it does when under load) too far and in those circumstances it is more likely to fail. I do not know all the in and outs of this (or have forgotten from uni days) but it might be that severely shortened springs would fall foul, of this. But then again they may not. It would depend on the amount of travel.

 

Personally I would cut springs a small amount (as I did on the Saab) but would always prefer to get new ones made to my specification because I can then choose precisely what they are.

 

Edit: Just remembered that Bruce's MX5 (since its been mentioned) doesn't have cut springs but custom made, height adjustable struts all round.

[Guest]

No you're right about RC to start with. There were too many VW (though mostly water cooled) parts, terms etc creeping in everywhere but I think they established their own path quite quickly. There is a buyers guide to the Mk1 Golf in the new issue but then they cannot ignore the VW scene as it, along with the OSF scene probably make up 50% of their market alone.

 

I agree. They've tempered the VW content down massively, but they're in a tricky place catering for all marques as they can't pretend the VW and OSF crowd doesn't exist even with that remit. As a compromise air cooled stuff is far closer to Retro Cars content than the water cooled kit, but that could well be down to preference. If you were going to lean on the VAG, Beetles, vans and variants would have been far more in keeping. Thanks for extrapolating what I was trying to get at in the last paragraph.

 

Personally I would cut springs a small amount (as I did on the Saab) but would always prefer to get new ones made to my specification because I can then choose precisely what they are.

 

Edit: Just remembered that Bruce's MX5 (since its been mentioned) doesn't have cut springs but custom made, height adjustable struts all round.

 

Spot on mate. And you're right, Bruce's red MX5 had custom coilovers on it. I imagine he's transferring them over to the Eunos. They were the shiniest bits on the whole car, but it was good to see he'd spent some money (probably a fair chunk of what the whole car was worth) where it counted. It still couldn't get on the ramp though. I'd have just raised the thing to stop it bottoming out getting into the unit. You could have still had it low without having to stuff blocks under the wheels and have them shoot out under load and smack into the sill.

 

I'm not anti A52 in any way shape or form, it's just that my views on it are somewhat complicated given that my allegiences are far closer to Autoshite than they are to Retro Rides. I'm still glad I've seen it and picking up MM5's parts was a brilliant excuse to go down and see something that I've read about and that isn't exactly local. And I suppose we did have the whiff of the outsider about us both. Other than a few messages on RR, we were total strangers to them.

[CIH]

IIRC they were £150 coilovers which frankly are absolute shit. We see loads of ebay special parts where I work at a suspension specialists and the dampning (and build quality) on those things is an absolute joke....but suspension dynamics isn't really the point to those guys so I guess the're not really bothered, which is fair I enough.

My only experience of MM was him parking that huge bus thing with the exhaust right next to my face at RR09, which was good of him.

 

Incidentally, we had a Golf in yesterday those guys would have buzzed off. Literally CMs between front bumper and ground. We had to push it up onto the geometry ramp as it wouldn't go in with someone sat in it.

 

EDIT: Also I generally prefer PPC to RC nowadays, I don't find it overly opinonated and they tend to stick to tuned cars rather than the slammed 'n' slow I often see in RC. My Silvia is going to be pure function over form....if it ever gets done.....