St.Jude’s Road to Perdition: Part Deux // 2008 Peugeot Partner Tepee - GONE! GONE GONE GONE GONE GONE!

[drewd]

Not sure if it's the same on this, but on my old 2006 307 1.6 HDi I had the brake system warning fault. Lexia stated the ABS/Brake system was open circuit. The ABS pump was located behind the wheel arch liner in the front N/S. I stumbled across this video from LM Auto Repairs investigating the same fault code. It's a long video, but between 20 - 25 minutes he strips the wiring from the BSM to the pump and finds a double relay in an enclosure that was knackered. The rest of the video is him testing/repairing the relay and reassembling the car.

This turned out to be the fault with my car, I repaired the relay with 80p worth of diodes from CPC as it was quicker for me than waiting on a new relay. I'd never have found the fault without that video and would have wrongly presumed the pump was dead. The relay is in the engine bay somewhere in front of the BSI unit heading down towards the front wheel. I repaired it in 2019 and it lasted until I sold the car last August.

If your garage steam cleaned the engine bay perhaps some moisture got in? It might not be this, because French, but you never know.

[ruffgeezer]

16 hours ago, Dave_Q said:

The BSM is a board of fuses and relays that live under the bonnet, you should be able to get the whole board out by removing somewhere between a couple and several wiring connectors.

Take it in the house, have a look to see if it's wet, and maybe clean it off with isopropyl alcohol and stick in in the airing cupboard.

Citroen C8s used to be bad for issues with the BSM because water from the scuttle used to drain directly onto it, and the lids either didn't fit well or disappeared.

Yes, I had similar with the ex- @mercedade 207 - it had suffered water ingress to the underbonnet fuse box and wouldn't start on occasion due to corrosion inside the fuse box.  Replacement was about £25 from Ebay and no coding required.

[St.Jude]

So been at this this morning. Battery has been off all night.

The TL:DR; of this is the ignition barrel is in, it’s working but isn’t the issue, my drivers window is now up, but ABS faults and other weird electrical things persist.

Start with the electrical things first - I’m sat in the drivers seat now and the engine is on. Sounds lovely. But I’m hearing multiple relays on the passenger side flickering. When I started it first time I got the window up, and down, and up. Wipers came on. But the FM transmitter thing hasn’t come on.

But, now, since I started writing this, the windows have all stopped again (closed thank fuck), wipers have stopped. I plugged in my iPhone to charge as it’s on the 12v accessory and for a moment it saw power and went to charge, but then nothing again.

I then turned the car off, went to start again and the starter is trying to engage again. So while the barrel is in and fitted, and isn’t as wiggly as the old one, it’s not the issue.

I am going to take the fuse board out from the engine and buy a bag of rice for it and leave it inside for today.

BUT - while we are here, to replace the barrel there are two T20 torx bits by the wheel underneath. The top cowl just clips off.

Immobiliser ring clips on to the barrel.

Underneath there is a bolt holding it. Cut a groove in to this and have at it with a flat head. Top of pic, looks like a button mushroom/chode.

 

Had bought this on a whim from Aldi. It’s great for this, but can be overwhelmed quickly.

New vs old side by side:

Worth also noting here that no one had been at under the cowl before me. Screws snapped off (in a good way).

[St.Jude]

Well, what is this?

I haven’t noticed it before. It looks to be going round to the back of the battery. Very stout cable and can come out to cover the fuse board. But I can’t see where it connects to, so possibly a red herring there.

[grogee]

4 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Well, what is this?

I haven’t noticed it before. It looks to be going round to the back of the battery. Very stout cable and can come out to cover the fuse board. But I can’t see where it connects to, so possibly a red herring there.

Looks to me like a feed to something aftermarket eg taxi radio, audio amp. Does it go to a similar cable and crimp on the +ve terminal? Should have an in-line fuse holder as well. 

[St.Jude]

7 minutes ago, grogee said:

Looks to me like a feed to something aftermarket eg taxi radio, audio amp. Does it go to a similar cable and crimp on the +ve terminal? Should have an in-line fuse holder as well. 

Other than it disappearing behind the battery holder, it’s just hanging in the breeze. So I don’t know where it goes. Feels like it should be heading towards something substantial like a terminal. From the bit I can see and feel there is no inline fuse.

I liberated the BSM/fuse box, defo not original. Maybe the slightest bit of evidence of water ingress in the pot, top two corners. The BSM felt loose though. Held on by one 13mm nut and it came out.

However, the material above it is sodden.

That has been off when the first garage fitted the new wiper linkage to it. Light stopped play so I won’t know now until, possibly, tomorrow afternoon or Tuesday afternoon.

The firebox thing is sat on top of a bag of rice in the kitchen, where it’ll stay for a day or two.

[Mr Pastry]

4 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Well, what is this?

Is it live?

[St.Jude]

10 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Is it live?

No idea, I will check it when I put the stuff back on.

[Mr Pastry]

Just now, St.Jude said:

No idea, I will check it when I put the stuff back on.

With every respect, I do realise that you have other stuff to deal with at the moment, which is more important, and I sympathise. 

But if that cable is live it can short to earth and start a fire or goose your battery.  You find something like that, you check it straight away, and if it's live, make it safe.  At least tape it up.   For your own safety.

[St.Jude]

31 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

With every respect, I do realise that you have other stuff to deal with at the moment, which is more important, and I sympathise. 

But if that cable is live it can short to earth and start a fire or goose your battery.  You find something like that, you check it straight away, and if it's live, make it safe.  At least tape it up.   For your own safety.

You are right, I didn’t consider it as I was in a rush getting this squeezed in. I’ve wrapped it up on tape and it’s sat on the fuse box cover.

[ruffgeezer]

8 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Well, what is this?

I haven’t noticed it before. It looks to be going round to the back of the battery. Very stout cable and can come out to cover the fuse board. But I can’t see where it connects to, so possibly a red herring there.

 

 

I'm willing to bet if you lift the boot carpet/ mat up, it'll have had a hoist in the boot for a motability scooter or wheel chair.  That looks about the right size for such a thing - way too big for caravan feed etc.

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, ruffgeezer said:

 

 

I'm willing to bet if you lift the boot carpet/ mat up, it'll have had a hoist in the boot for a motability scooter or wheel chair.  That looks about the right size for such a thing - way too big for caravan feed etc.

There is a tow bar, and something has been stuck to the plastic lip on the boot but it was removed.

Something to look at that isn’t an engine I suppose. Just to break up the monotony! 😂

[Dobloseven]

Talking to our friends today.They've a 62 reg 1.6 diesel Berlingo.They've had it 7 years and had two first gen models before it.Say they've no plans to replace it.Unless it starts to give problems!To cheer you up a bit, number 3 son has a 68 reg Vauxhall Combo Life.Essentially a LWB,3rd gen Berlingo/Partner and he's had a surprising amount of trouble with it, including a bill for 1200 quid to replace the Adblue system.

[St.Jude]

20 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Talking to our friends today.They've a 62 reg 1.6 diesel Berlingo.They've had it 7 years and had two first gen models before it.Say they've no plans to replace it.Unless it starts to give problems!To cheer you up a bit, number 3 son has a 68 reg Vauxhall Combo Life.Essentially a LWB,3rd gen Berlingo/Partner and he's had a surprising amount of trouble with it, including a bill for 1200 quid to replace the Adblue system.

The funny thing is for years I've seen and heard people scoff at French cars and their electrics. And I look at the Peugeot 107 I have and it's been grand. The only one that was iffy was the 3008 I had where it shat it's power steering pump at 50mph - and it turns out with them the power steering pump has an ECU and if one tyre is lower in pressure than the other, and it feels resistance and shits itself. It throws its hands up and goes "nope, too hard, you do it". It is not fun driving a 1,500kg car with no power steering at any speed.

But then I get this and I go ahhh yeah, French electrics, I get it. But grounding issues (which I'm feeling this is) can affect any car. Fuck me could even be the issue with the hateful Rover.

As for your lad, £1,200 to get it replaced? Why bother just get it mapped out?

[Tickman]

11 hours ago, St.Jude said:

The funny thing is for years I've seen and heard people scoff at French cars and their electrics. And I look at the Peugeot 107 I have and it's been grand.

Because it is a Toyota basically maybe.

I've had many French cars and not really had problems with the electrics compared to other manufacturers.

[St.Jude]

25 minutes ago, Tickman said:

Because it is a Toyota basically maybe.

I've had many French cars and not really had problems with the electrics compared to other manufacturers.

Yeah. I think the only contribution PSA made to it were the brakes. The rest was Toyota.

[Remspoor]

Not had many issues with the old 307SW. Passenger  Airbag light was the only electrical issue. That is because the car leaked and the connection beside the seat was sat in water.

No sorry just remembered...... the other electrical issue was the 6 CD change. They all go They all get thrown away.

[Zelandeth]

Can't say I've ever had any particular electrical issues with any of the French cars I've had.  Only notable failures being the cooling fan on my first Xantia - but it was on nigh on 200K miles so I'd just chalk that up to wear and tear rather than French.  One of them needed repairs to the speed controller on the heater blower, but can't remember which one that was.  Again a 20+ year old car well over 100K miles either way so nothing that would make me raise an eyebrow.

The heads up display in the Partner had a fit at one point but that was quickly traced to the battery being on its last legs.  That does just seem to be something that especially post 2000-ish PSA electrics are incredibly intolerant of and often manifests as really bizarre faults that make no sense.

Ignition switches aren't something I've ever personally had issues with, but have been documented as an issue as far back as the Xantia - they never upgraded the switch to deal with the extra current draw on modern cars with predictable results.  Adding a relay to take the load was a pretty standard mod on Xantias.  I guess the later design wasn't much better if it's still an issue!

Even the BX wasn't bad despite having been in hibernation for something like 10 years.  Few cruddy connections and dirty switches that were a bit intermittent at first and the fuel gauge sender in the tank had dissolved, but absolutely nothing that couldn't have been an issue on any car that age, especially having been sitting for so long.

Worst car I had for electrical gremlins by a country mile was the Jag XJ-S.  There was always *something* acting up on that, and the faults rarely made any sense!

[MrBig]

I think the only people who complain about crap electrics on French cars are those that haven't owned a British car.

[warch]

8 minutes ago, MrBig said:

I think the only people who complain about crap electrics on French cars are those that haven't owned a German car.

EFT

[Remspoor]

British cars

[bezzabsa]

any updates????

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, bezzabsa said:

any updates????

No not really as I was at work today and got back too late to do anything.

I did check the footwell on the passenger side briefly and it’s mostly bone dry. Lovely carpet if I’m honest. But there’s a patch at the foot of the A pillar where it meets the sill that is ever so slightly damp to the touch. In a bit of an isolated place. I ran my head up the bulkhead but it felt dry. Only reason checking this as I read somewhere on the old Berlingos that if it’s had a new windscreen it’s possible they can leak. From the MOT history I think this has had a new screen at some point. 

Only reason checking here is that these clicks I heard on that side is where the BSI lives. And helpfully my book of lies turned up today.

 

A number of bits that aren’t working are here. And helpfully:

Thanks Haynes.

I’ll fit the fuse board tomorrow, try the jumper cable, and then go to reset this BSI thing.

I think it’s the BSI or a grounding issue here really. And if it’s the BSI it’s because water is getting in up top. Especially as it’s so damp on that side of the car.

[rusty_vw_man]

Most interesting thing is working out if there is any common point between all the systems that are messing about. Do they all trace back to a single earth/fuse/switched relay etc etc. 

Loose connection could be giving similar issues - makes connection, relays switch, breaks connection relays switch again…. Worth looking at all the things they’ll have undone. 

Also, multimeter between the negative terminal of the battery and a good earth point, any voltage reading shows you have a general earthing issue which may also give you these weird on/off issues as stuff back feeds to try and find a route to earth…. 

[St.Jude]

6 minutes ago, rusty_vw_man said:

Most interesting thing is working out if there is any common point between all the systems that are messing about. Do they all trace back to a single earth/fuse/switched relay etc etc. 

Loose connection could be giving similar issues - makes connection, relays switch, breaks connection relays switch again…. Worth looking at all the things they’ll have undone. 

Also, multimeter between the negative terminal of the battery and a good earth point, any voltage reading shows you have a general earthing issue which may also give you these weird on/off issues as stuff back feeds to try and find a route to earth…. 

I think all roads lead to the BSI from what I’ve read. It seems to be a central hub for the car systems itself. But agree a loose wire around where they’ve fucked around could definitely be something.

Will dig out the multimeter tomorrow too. I do have one, hiding…

[Imhotep]

I’m not sure where it is and I can’t promise I’ll be able to find it but I have an ancient Lexia tool here that should talk to this thing. If I can find it, I’ll drop you a PM if you want to borrow it and see if it gives you any new information

[mercedade]

Funnily enough, I was going to say similar - some of the behaviour you're getting is identical to that I got in a 207 diesel when I used a normal ODB. 

Basically when the dongle was plugged in, I would get the following:

* the engine would continue to run even with the ignition off and the key in my hand

* 'BRAKE FAILURE' warning on the info screen and a lot of clicking and fluttering from various relays

* electrics would go absolutely scrambled with windows not working etc

Once I unplugged the dongle, all back to normal. 

It would only work with the proper Lexia hardware. 

[St.Jude]

23 minutes ago, Imhotep said:

I’m not sure where it is and I can’t promise I’ll be able to find it but I have an ancient Lexia tool here that should talk to this thing. If I can find it, I’ll drop you a PM if you want to borrow it and see if it gives you any new information

Thanks mate. I'm only in Stourbridge and it's just popped in to my head I was meant to arrange to get that MD player off of you!

19 minutes ago, mercedade said:

Funnily enough, I was going to say similar - some of the behaviour you're getting is identical to that I got in a 207 diesel when I used a normal ODB. 

Basically when the dongle was plugged in, I would get the following:

* the engine would continue to run even with the ignition off and the key in my hand

* 'BRAKE FAILURE' warning on the info screen and a lot of clicking and fluttering from various relays

* electrics would go absolutely scrambled with windows not working etc

Once I unplugged the dongle, all back to normal. 

It would only work with the proper Lexia hardware. 

Yeah I do have the bluetooth OBD2 thing around somewhere but I didn't even consider it given how much I read about this thing needing Lexia.

Which, if it had fucking behaved, I'd have bought anyway!

[St.Jude]

It’s fucking cold here today.

Anyway, refit the fuse board and wipers are still MIA on both wipers and washer jet. Rear though is working along with its washer. 12v accessory is now working, windows are working, ABS error still appears.

Only thing to notice is that the battery light flashes when I put the key to the first position on the ignition. Can’t say I’ve noticed that before.

Im reluctant to try the BSI reset but I think I will now. Fuck it.

[St.Jude]

Done the BSI reset, and that seems to have solved it. But I don’t fully believe it.

Did the reset, flashing battery light, still presented with the ABS error. Wipers didn’t work as above. BUT suddenly then did. And I thought fuck it, let’s see what it’s like with no ABS so I reversed off of the driver and the wipers stuttered once. But the kept on and by the time I drove 100/200 yards the ABS light had gone off.

Wipers, 12v accessory, more importantly the ABS light all doing their job and working as expected. I drove around the “block” which was about 20 mins on fast NSL road and pootle around town at 30mph, got home, it’s fine.

I have turned it off.

I am deliberating now whether to remove the new ignition barrel as it wasn’t the issue, and put the cowl back. Have ran out of lunch time so can’t do it now.

But, I will drive it to work tomorrow (at least it’s close to the garage then) and take photos of it to throw it on Motorway. While I have the chance!