Rover P6 2000TC - it was #3 wot dunnit

[Zelandeth]

On 16/02/2025 at 18:10, N Dentressangle said:

It does feel quite funny steaming up the outside lane in a 54 year old car. But well within its abilities. Quite a machine, really

This was the thing that surprised me most about the P4.  It was far, far, far more in its element in full juggernaut mode on the outside lane on the motorway than it had any right to be whatsoever.  That really confused the hell out of people when it went howling past them.

[N Dentressangle]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

This was the thing that surprised me most about the P4.  It was far, far, far more in its element in full juggernaut mode on the outside lane on the motorway than it had any right to be whatsoever.  That really confused the hell out of people when it went howling past them.

Before having a P6, I always saw Rover in the light of the Leyland produced SD1 and all the subsequent Rover badged cars. Just another pretty shonky Midlands car company absorbed into the BL conglomerate and destroyed by its multiple failings.

The P6 makes me think how Rover could have been a British Mercedes-Benz. They had engineering prowess and innovation, immense quality and build standards, plus the diversity of Land Rover. That re-framing makes perfect sense of the disconcertingly modern performance. If only...

[Inspector Morose]

2 hours ago, N Dentressangle said:

Before having a P6, I always saw Rover in the light of the Leyland produced SD1 and all the subsequent Rover badged cars. Just another pretty shonky Midlands car company absorbed into the BL conglomerate and destroyed by its multiple failings.

The P6 makes me think how Rover could have been a British Mercedes-Benz. They had engineering prowess and innovation, immense quality and build standards, plus the diversity of Land Rover. That re-framing makes perfect sense of the disconcertingly modern performance. If only...

You should read up on the P8 story. It was going to be a real Mercedes eater with utterly fantastic engineering solutions. Sadly a bad outcome with a crash test and a fair amount of internal politics from within the BL group put paid to it it and we got the SD1 instead (almost as if someone from Browns Lane forced them to  "stay in their lane").

[EyesWeldedShut]

24 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

You should read up on the P8 story. It was going to be a real Mercedes eater with utterly fantastic engineering solutions. Sadly a bad outcome with a crash test and a fair amount of internal politics from within the BL group put paid to it it and we got the SD1 instead (almost as if someone from Browns Lane forced them to  "stay in their lane").

https://www.aronline.co.uk/opinion/rover-p8-importance/

I read that the other week - the production mockup photo reminds me a lot of a big Japanese car of the period (Toyota Crown). As for the SD1?  I drove 2.0, 2.6 and 3.5 versions of that and they were all plain Janes plus late to the party? BL should have stuck with the P8 and let the Triumph 2.5/2.0 range fill the P6 gap.
Strange days .....

[lesapandre]

A big 4-litre saloon would have been a hard sell in the 1970's onwards in the UK. Very little market in Europe either - and none in the US where even then US cars were preferred or Mercedes, VW or BMW. 

BMC and Rover failed to crack the US market and later Rover Group failed.

[High Jetter]

3 hours ago, N Dentressangle said:

Before having a P6, I always saw Rover in the light of the Leyland produced SD1 and all the subsequent Rover badged cars. Just another pretty shonky Midlands car company absorbed into the BL conglomerate and destroyed by its multiple failings.

The P6 makes me think how Rover could have been a British Mercedes-Benz. They had engineering prowess and innovation, immense quality and build standards, plus the diversity of Land Rover. That re-framing makes perfect sense of the disconcertingly modern performance. If only...

BL lacked the consistency and reliability of the German brands. @motorpunk is writing a book that will explain much of that, I think.

[N Dentressangle]

The Rover rewarded me for all the brake work today by dumping the contents of the M/C reservoir all over the garage floor:

Thanks for that.

Having priced up new master cylinders (how much?) it was a relief to find it was just the bottom of the reservoir to M/C feed pipe that had corroded off. Only complication was that it's 1/4" pipe, so I trotted down to the local garage and got a pipe made up. So we're back in business!

Now looking forward to a long and uninterrupted period of reliability 🤣

[N Dentressangle]

So, what's been happening?

The Rover is gradually getting to the stage where it's usable as a daily driver. All / most of the little jobs are done, with just bits n bobs left. One thing I hadn't done was change the oil and filter. The oil light took a while to go out, but no unpleasant noises and good oil pressure on the move and at idle suggested a better filter than the Bosch fitted might be an idea. So some stuff was acquired:

Oil with plenty of ZDDP and extra dinosaurs, plus a filter with both a non-return valve and a standpipe, as recommended by the P6 forum. Result was a much faster extinguishing oil light and a smoother feeling engine, so happy with that.

I also drained the gearbox oil, as the forum recommendation was to use Millers Mini oil

The stuff that came out was OK - no chunks or metallic nastiness - but looked suspiciously like ATF to me. Millers seems to have improved the gearchange, cut down on noise and vibration and made it easier to get reverse, so a job worth doing.

Next was tuning the carbs better. When I got the car they were way out, popping and farting and barely idling. A quick fiddle had them better but there was room for improvement. I used a Colourtune to sort the mixture, but had to buy one of these to balance the things:

There's not enough room between the carb and inner wing for my synchrometer. To use the above needed a special* tool making with some plastic waste pipe joiner and draught excluder:

which allows the balancer to miss the stud which handily pokes out of the side of the carb throat.

Some back and forth later and we have a smooth running motor!

I've now put 250 miles on the car, and she runs really well. Even passed the acid test of a trip into Bristol for work yesterday with no issues at all. The Rover sits happily on the motorway at 70mph, the big glass area makes for easy work in traffic and the trick suspension smooths out the shit roads and potholes. I'd happily drive the car anywhere now and be pretty certain she'd be fine and we'd have a great journey.

Popped in on a mate with a posh drive the other day and couldn't resist a pic:

[N Dentressangle]

So, onto the little mods and fettles to make the Rover more usable.

The cooling system on these has no expansion tank or overflow - unusual for such a late car but still OK for the time I guess. This does mean that whatever is pushed out of the radiator dribbles onto the floor, and means the rad needs a top up from time to time. It's not that big for the car's size, so I thought an overflow tank would be a good idea. Luckily Rover fitted just the thing to the Land Rover S3 in its own neat metal cage, so I had one on the shelf.

Cleaned up and fitted it next to the rad:

Factree 😉

It's not pressurised - the radiator overflow enters into the bottom of the tank, so anything that goes in is sucked back to the radiator as the engine cools, and there's an overflow from the top. What it should have had originally, really.

[Lankytim]

Great thread, I really like this old tubs- I wouldn’t mind one after I get bored of the P4 and move it on. 

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Nice idea. 👍

I presume you fitted the Land Rover S3 type radiator cap that has the extra valve, so it can "blow and suck"?

 

[N Dentressangle]

19 hours ago, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

Nice idea. 👍

I presume you fitted the Land Rover S3 type radiator cap that has the extra valve, so it can "blow and suck"?

 

Ah no - didn't know it was different. Will rectify ASAP!

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Use Land Rover part number RTC3610

https://www.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Radiator-Cap-9lbs-RTC3610.html

Its "blow" pressure is 9lb, the Rover P6 4cyl cap is 7lb 

so you will get a slight rising of the boiling point, without risking the radiator.

[bezzabsa]

been watching some late 50's early 60's Pathe type vids on yootoob about Rover cars - the one about the 3litre P5 (?) was great , complete with Built in-house machinery cos "No one in the World has one to Rover exacting standards"
Plus I didn't know Rover used to have their own 20mile test track in Solihull!!

[N Dentressangle]

Time for some more niggle-sorting.

The heater blower only worked on the lower speed of the two. Which was fine, but we like perfection 🤣. I'm also getting some paint matched up to sort some of the ugliest bits, and Middleton Panels needed a sample to work from - a panel in the right colour taken off the car and left with them for a few days. The obvious candidate was the scuttle panel, so off it came:

Dead easy to remove - wipers plus nuts then 4 screws; two at each end and two on the heater box. By my logic* that meant I was already halfway to pulling the heater box and sorting the fan speeds. The other thing I wanted to do was add some soundproofing. There is bugger all on the bulkhead between the engine and passenger compartment, and to do a nice and effective job the heater box would have to come out. I ordered some of this stuff:

which is 30mm thick and meant for shutting up crappy diesel narrowboat engines, so should be good enough for my luxury junior executive's express. I'm planning on lining the bulkhead with it on the engine side, plus some more on the other side where I can fit it in.

So anyway, pulling the heater box. This is the last one I did:

and I laughed bitterly at the posts on the P6 forum / FB warning about what a pig of a job getting the heater out of a P6 was. Amateurs 😉 The only tricky bit is getting at and removing or loosening the fixings on the 3 levers for temp, direction and fan.

They're buried behind the centre console and need a 5/16 socket and a little flexibility. I'm sure they'll be a joy* and a delight* to refit, but hey ho. 4 bolts hold the box in, and 3 wires go to the fan which need disconnected:

and then you can just lift the whole thing out, finessing it around the cam cover you were too lazy to remove. BANG, and the heater box is out!

About an hour's work at a gentle pace. You can see the total lack of any sound deadening on the bulkhead.

Time for a good clean up of the bulkhead, plus a refurb of the heater box so it's fit for another 54 years:

[captain_70s]

Beware the stick on sound deadening. Some Dolomites had that from the factory and it tends to dissolve the bulkhead!

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

Loving this thread it has to be noted.  Keep up the good work (and er, good luck getting those handle spindle things back together! 

[Zelandeth]

Have been putting this off on mine, as someone has had the heater box apart and didn't bother putting all the screws back into it before reinstalling it.  Just why?!?

Not sure if that's likely to be a better or worse job on the V8 - there's more engine in there, but aside from the carbs and air filter it maybe sits lower?

[N Dentressangle]

I think it's easier, actually - the massive great 2000 cam cover isn't in the way, and everything else is the same. Nothing like as awful a job as on most cars.

[N Dentressangle]

So, I've now got this all sorted and back together.

The heater box got de-rusted and a few coats of Lidl's finest anti-rust metal paint. It also got a couple of little steel patches stuck on the underside where the grinder and wire brush showed it was rusting through. All the seals were still good, and the fan worked quietly on both speeds when tested, so here's the finished article:

which reminds me I need to put the bottom drain hose back on. I've ordered a couple of new drain hoses for the sides from ANG - the old ones had long since rotted off and turned into gross looking perished knob type things  I flushed the whole cooling system and heater matrix through too until everything ran clear.

Putting everything back together was pretty straightforward. Just a little struggle cuddle to persuade it past the cam cover, then re-connecting the heater controls behind the dash. Even that wasn't too awful - helps when you know what you're looking for and where it ought to go. Filled the cooling system with new blue anti-freeze to about 40-50%, so hopefully the engine side plates won't be thinking about rusting any time soon.

I also had some paint matched up so I could spray the knackered scuttle panel. We're a couple of coats in here I think, with a couple more to go:

Just nuts and bolts putting it all back together though, and here's the bonnet closed result:

You can see the nasty marks on bonnet here. I think it was stored in a garage with an asbestos roof or something, and the dribbles from leaks or condensation have done a real number on the paint. The driver's side is especially scarred, and the passenger's isn't great. I've got another tin of paint plus some etch primer (aluminium bonnet) for that job, which I'll probably crack on with tomorrow.

Under the bonnet is also looking smarter. Nice shiny heater box and scuttle panel, plus you can see some of the soundproofing I've added to the bulkhead. I'll try a test drive tomorrow to see if it's made any difference:

The scuttle panel is still orange-peely because I haven't cut it back yet. I'll give it a week or so to harden up fully, then caress it gently and suggestively with some wet n soapy 2000 grit and creamy polish 🍆

[N Dentressangle]

I forgot - the blower now works on both speeds!

The motor and rheostat were both fine, and the connections tested good too. So onto the switch, which is that weird slider thing. It works by earthing out one of two connections to the rheostat. Here's a pic:

The black arrow shows the earth lead to the slider lever.

The red arrow points to the earth contact for the higher of the two motor speeds. As the slider moves down over it, the earth contact is made and the fan runs at higher speed. It's currently over the half speed contact.

I cleaned the contact up with a bit of sandpaper and had a good wiggle of the feed wires and we're in business. A two speed fan. Luxury.

 

[Matty]

2 hours ago, N Dentressangle said:

A two speed fan. Luxury.

I've got one of those in mine. On and off😄

[N Dentressangle]

So, as you can see from my other thread, I've taken the plunge and removed the sill covers. The self-tappers mostly took mole grips to remove, but that's OK and everything finished in a friendly way with no need for the angry grinder. The Rover once again proves the most compliant and straightforward car I've ever worked on.

You can see pics from inside the sills on the other thread. Imagine the kind of relief only normally felt after a pregnancy test. I thought they'd be OK, but you never know.

The outer sills were a bit rusty and made things look far worse than they were, so I attacked them with the flap disc and finished off with the B&D Mouse. Which unfortunately finished off the mouse, with more of a harsh electrical crackle than a squeak. Bollocks. Never mind, I'd nearly done anyway. Coat of rust killer and here they are drying in the sun:

They're going to be sprayed satin black as original, so next they got a good coat of red oxide. I find this works well to level up imperfections and give an OK finish once sprayed over. Quick brush over, and here we are:

I've ordered a new set of bungs as my old ones are revolting and look they're made out of recycled Stomil tyres. Don't try and tell me you weren't ever so tight as to buy those death rings 😉

[N Dentressangle]

More progress on the sills, helped by really nice outdoor painting weather.

Gave them a topcoat, then some Toolstation underseal, which gives a really nice slightly textured satin finish:

Meanwhile, I've been tidying up the front end of the sills. The thick underseal has done a great job of protecting things, but is starting to crack, flake and hold water behind it, so it's very timely to attack it with the wire brush and old chisel ready for rust converter, paint and fresh underseal.

This is the nearside, but the driver's side is pretty much identical. Glad to catch it at this stage as it's just surface rust:

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Are you going to pop some cavity wax into the inner working of the sills while you have them open?

 

PS the Stomils were quite good as winter tyres on the kind of car I used to run back in the early 90s when we had winters...

[N Dentressangle]

55 minutes ago, Momentary Lapse Of Reason said:

Are you going to pop some cavity wax into the inner working of the sills while you have them open?

 

PS the Stomils were quite good as winter tyres on the kind of car I used to run back in the early 90s when we had winters...

Yes, that's the plan. I've got a proper wax gun for the compressor with probes etc, so it'll be ready for another 54 years when it's done. Other than the drain holes in the bottom, there don't seem to be easy access holes for a probe so I'll probably drill some holes in the outer sill and put bungs in once I'm done. It'll all be hidden under the cover sill anyway.

My mum was a massive fan of Stomils. 17yr old me, trying to drift her Fiat 127 through roundabouts, not so much.

[N Dentressangle]

So that's that job completed. 

Coat of paint and then Waxoyl underseal over the surface rust at the front:

Good enough for the girls we date.

All the cavities sprayed with Waxoyl and the outside recoated with waxoyl underseal - spot the drilled hole and bung. 

New bungs arrived for the jacking points this morning, so here's the finished job:

[jonathan_dyane]

Beautiful car. I wish I could justify buying it...

[treehugger]

Tremendous thread. 

[jonathan_dyane]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/december-1966/33/rover-2000-tc/