Living with Zastava Florida Business - Factory ICE, supercharged

[flat4alfa]

I read that FIAT<>Zastava relations soured for a while and hence the move to PSA units.  September 2002 was the switch to PSA engines.   So is it a run-out transition car perhaps carburettor engine fitted if the EFI stock was exhausted?  Was the FIAT 1.3 EFI shipped-over pre-built to the Serbia plant? 

Dashboard is a mix of the earlier grey and later blue for the Florida In.  Having a grey glovebox on a blue dash, for the win!

 

[IronStar]

23 minutes ago, flat4alfa said:

I read that during 2002, FIAT<>Zastava relations soured for a while and hence the move to PSA units.  September 2002 was the switch to PSA engines.   So is it a run-out transition car perhaps carburettor engine fitted if the EFI stock was exhausted?  Was the FIAT 1.3 EFI shipped-over pre-built to the Serbia plant? 

Dashboard is a mix of the earlier grey and later blue for the Florida In.  Having a grey glovebox on a blue dash, for the win!

 

After fall of Milosevic, Zastava was looking for partners to revamp the engine lineup and FIAT wasn’t willing to play ball  because Zastava owed them money. As a result, Zastava turned to Toyota and PSA for engines. There’s a couple of Yugo prototypes with 1.0 VVTI engine out of a Yaris knocking about, as they were sold after they decided to go for PSA. Maybe my Toyota remote blip has something to do with a Toyota collaboration trial run?
EFI system is actually a Bosch unit, not a FIAT parts bin item. There were multiple revisions over the years of the EFI system control unit, but common thread is - it was never FIAT. It was originally developed for USA export to meet the demands for less maintenance, more power and make it easier to meet an emissions norm. It’s branded as YUGO on the air intake and all other bits.

FIAT had nothing to do with the engines either. All FIAT-based engines were built by DMB in Rakovica, Belgrade. This enabled Zastava to solder on through Yugoslav wars and sanctions. Quality was hit and miss on the later engines unfortunately. 
Maybe they owed money to Bosch as well and they didn’t want to sell the injectors and ECUs? 

As for multicolored dashboard, it’s actually grey dashboard with yellowed by sun glovebox. These are notorious for breaking, so my guess is it was replaced, and someone went “close enough” 😄 Unless I’m mistaken it’s a same casting as later Florida In dashboard, just in gray, which is indeed odd. 

[IronStar]

First drive impressions

Something is wrong with the fuel system. There is 65HP somewhere in there, but it’s ridiculously struggling uphill. 60kmh, full throttle 3rd gear. I assume carb is set in a way it uses less gas but has fuckall power. 
Temperature gauge is unhappily jumping above 90, so that needs some investigation as well.

Got it to the aircon repair place, and everyone working there is very happy to see it and are taking photos. Other clients gathering as to wtf why is this connected to aircon regas machine. 😂

[IronStar]

Aux fan packed up  

No aircon until this is fixed

[egg]

^ AS calendar shot, right there.

[Surface Rust]

Lean mixture / lack of power and hot running might be connected!

[GeordieInExile]

Now, the question is... how easy would a RHD conversion be?

[hairnet]

3 hours ago, IronStar said:

 

 

misread dmb as OMG oops

[IronStar]

41 minutes ago, GeordieInExile said:

Now, the question is... how easy would a RHD conversion be?

Conversion as such? Probably relatively easy. Getting RHD dash? Good luck.

 

51 minutes ago, Surface Rust said:

Lean mixture / lack of power and hot running might be connected!

That was my first idea. I’ll get the carb/LPG checked over. 

[LightBulbFun]

1 minute ago, IronStar said:

Conversion as such? Probably relatively easy. Getting RHD dash? Good luck.

find someone who has a 3D printer and is not afraid to use it?  

[bezzabsa]

is there much chod left over there???

[IronStar]

One of the amazing* sensical* bits of car ownership in this country is that you have to change plates every time car owner moves to a different city or car gets sold to a different city. Old plates get destroyed and you have to pay for new plates and new registration certificate. Someone cynical might say that’s a money printing machine for the tax authorities but heyho.

Oh, you pay tax on a car as well.

Away with the old plates

 

In with the new.

 

Two of my cars now have UK suffix to them and I don’t know what to think about that 🤣

[IronStar]

11 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

is there much chod left over there???

Probably more than in the UK. However if it has no aircon, it is not much longer for the world and is probably falling apart already. So 20 or so years is a cutoff for reasonable nick. Anything beforehand, good luck with the condition. 
 

Edit: There’s salt on the roads over the winter as well, so that’s not helping either

[IronStar]

Florida - Day 2

Boot latch has helpfully* shat itself this morning. No worries, I was planning to go to the wreckers to get some bits today anyway.

Very friendly chap running the yard was happy to see it, complete with aircon, and the other “luxury” bits. I know the guy from earlier on, as I got a bunch of gubbins for my previous Yugo fiddling endeavors off him. He was a bit confused when I mentioned Florida and wasn’t sure if he got me mixed up with someone else, as I don’t have one, but was pleasantly surprised to see that I now do, and that it will probably be well taken care of.

Guy had 3 Floridas in the yard, but they were all Florida Ins so not everything matches up. Lovely. Latch is same, so away with old and in with the new. Spring failed on the old one, but there’s really no point trying to fix as another one is a fiver.

Lots of other small bits were bought as well. Light switch had a knob missing

Much better. 
 

Blanking switches on the center console had something stuck on them at some point, and sticky leftovers didn’t want to come off. No worries, replacement blanks went in.

Speaker grills on the door card went down, as only one speaker sounding absolutely dreadful was working. No wonder only one is working - only one was fitted. 😄 A singular 4x6 speaker in 5 inch speaker hole, held in by a single screw. Lovely. No photo here as I was too shocked and was fitting the proper sized one. Passenger side was somehow even less sensical - two wires coming in are (poorly) spliced into 2 Y joints and going….nowhere. Amazing. I didn’t have the connectors with me, so they went back in after an eyeroll or 6. New* Pioneer speakers were acquired for less than 10E for a pair. 
We also agreed to swap the headliner for a nicer, unscratched and unbroken one, but I was out of time, and he was too hungover to bother today anyway. 😄

There’s a box of assorted random other trim bits that are a bit naff, broken or missing, pics of replacing them are coming as I do it. Driver side door handle is a bit wonky as well, so door card needs to come down to replace it. Great time to see what’s wrong with power windows as well.

While I was at the breakers, I picked up some bits for the guys @wesacosa put me in touch with. That clutch is a right bastard, and there were no 1.4s to take measurements from, but some other assorted plastic bits were picked up. 

What didn’t cheer me up today is that I found part of the culprit for no power. Closer inspection revealed that two barrels auto-choke Webber 32/32 was replaced by a single barrel IPM 32. That’s at least 6-7HP there, and it’s running very lean for probably another 10 or so. Add an LPG power sap and it probably has closer to 40 than 65HP which is no fun on a car that weighs about a ton. Amazing. Not. That needs to be replaced with a proper fitting thing and LPG fiddled with. 
Further inspection revealed some other bodges in the engine bay, cracked fuel hoses that haven’t seen action for years and leaking fuel pump completely covered in gunk. 
 

Went to meet some friends tonight and 1.5/3 was amused by the purchase so that’s something I guess. 😄 

It’s a joy to drive it! It’s so unpretentious! It’s fully aware it’s designed to be a cheapish, comfortable, spacious family bus, and that’s how it behaves. No pretense of being a fast car. No pretense of competing with a contemporary luxury cars. Nothing to prove to the world about being the greatest car ever made. Just does its thing, and does it superbly (minus the annoying seats). Incredibly refreshing at a time where everything you drive seems to be trying hard to prove it’s better than it really is. It comes complete with super soft suspension that you absorb all the bumps, and comedy wheels are wrapped in winter tires so I managed an accidental green light tyre squeak or 4. 🤣 Downside is that other drivers see it as an old shitter, and pay no attention or give any respect to your existence in the traffic. Had multiple idiots cutting me of or driving into me today, as they somehow seem to think that they have right of the way, can’t finish an overtake and need to drive into a car I’m overtaking or a hedge or somehow disappear or vanish into a thin air from the junction I’m already in because their car is 5-10-20-30 times more expensive. Wankers. 🙄 There are some odd squeaks, one of them coming from one of the steering shaft bearings, but I’ll look into those in due time. 

[dollywobbler]

Love this! I still need to drive one having only owned one that was a long way from roadworthy.

[wesacosa]

8 minutes ago, dollywobbler said:

Love this! I still need to drive one having only owned one that was a long way from roadworthy.

The guy Ironstar mentioned in the post above who he is helping with parts is the guy who has your old one now

[hairnet]

On 19/07/2024 at 18:52, IronStar said:

One of the amazing* sensical* bits of car ownership in this country is that you have to change plates every time car owner moves to a different city or car gets sold to a different city. Old plates get destroyed and you have to pay for new plates and new registration certificate. Someone cynical might say that’s a money printing machine for the tax authorities but heyho.

Oh, you pay tax on a car as well.

Away with the old plates

 

In with the new.

 

Two of my cars now have UK suffix to them and I don’t know what to think about that 🤣

seeing as the crest is the same why is the script different?

[hairnet]

oh and if 1.4 or 1.6 in one of these

marea 5 pot ftw??

edit also someone mentioned psa

so xud? ftw

[IronStar]

1 minute ago, hairnet said:

seeing as the crest is the same why is the script different?

They initially thought they could get away with XX 123 XX. However, as numbers are no longer reused and Belgrade is a city of almost 3 million, so they needed to cram in one more number, altering the spacing. Taxis have gotten to BG XXXXX TX and spacing is just terrible on that.

Just now, hairnet said:

oh and if 1.4 or 1.6 in one of these

marea 5 pot ftw??

Unfortunately, you can’t (legally) do an engine swap here to something that was not in that model from factory. 
1.6 is PSA TU5 and is available in facelift only.

[hairnet]

no i meant the red shield with the cyrillic under it

the letters are different but the shield is the same............ [/nerd]

[IronStar]

6 hours ago, hairnet said:

no i meant the red shield with the cyrillic under it

the letters are different but the shield is the same............ [/nerd]

Aaaah that! 
The crest is crest of Serbia, and the text under it is area code of the plates, same as first two letters, just Cyrillic BG (BG) / SP (SP) 

[mat777]

All I can say is, bravo OP for your bravery and such epic shite!

In terms of the running, this is my experience from LPG cars in the past:

- LPG is a much leaner burn than petrol, it will run hotter

- LPG injectors are rated by how much horsepower worth of gas they will flow. If the system is anything like the one I had, the injector is on the miserly side for WOT running. Normally this isn't an issue because some petrol will cut in to plug the gap. As you say your car has a knackered petrol system you'll be noticing the shortfall. 

- Alternatively... LPG is not as "lubricating" to valves as petrol. If the car has done a lot of lpg miles and doesn't have an appropriate "flashlube" system (a light oil atomiser in the intake manifold) then you may be suffering a touch of valve seat recession - with the attendant poor running from too-tight valve clearances 

[IronStar]

29 minutes ago, mat777 said:

All I can say is, bravo OP for your bravery and such epic shite!

In terms of the running, this is my experience from LPG cars in the past:

- LPG is a much leaner burn than petrol, it will run hotter

- LPG injectors are rated by how much horsepower worth of gas they will flow. If the system is anything like the one I had, the injector is on the miserly side for WOT running. Normally this isn't an issue because some petrol will cut in to plug the gap. As you say your car has a knackered petrol system you'll be noticing the shortfall. 

- Alternatively... LPG is not as "lubricating" to valves as petrol. If the car has done a lot of lpg miles and doesn't have an appropriate "flashlube" system (a light oil atomiser in the intake manifold) then you may be suffering a touch of valve seat recession - with the attendant poor running from too-tight valve clearances 

Thank you, I hope it treats me well! Mrs Star is not even mad, which is a proper shocker! 😄

I never ran LPG before, so this is interesting stuff. Does LPG injector stuff apply for carbureted systems as well? I vaguely remember that there were some differences between LPG conversion for carbs and fuel injection, but I never really paid much attention as I never intended running it on one of my cars. 
It’s been running on LPG only for ages judging by the completely perished state of the fuel hose going into an (engine mounted) fuel pump, and fuel turned into gunk that leaked around it. TBH I have no idea how to adjust valve clearances so I’ll ask a mechanic that works on my old stuff for a look over. 

[Sigmund Fraud]

1 hour ago, IronStar said:

Does LPG injector stuff apply for carbureted systems as well?

No, your car should have a simple LPG mixer, rather than an injection system :

If you share a picture of your engine bay, we can perv at it help identify the LPG system components for you.

[IronStar]

9 hours ago, Sigmund Fraud said:

No, your car should have a simple LPG mixer, rather than an injection system :

If you share a picture of your engine bay, we can perv at it help identify the LPG system components for you.

Have an engine bay

Bonus image of amazing* wiring harness modification to fit wrong polarity battery 

Yes that’s exposed ground wire. Yes, it’s extended by length of a red wire. Amazing work. Fucksake.

Took Mrs Star to a breakfast in it today, she loves it! Says she feels unsafe compared to usual 159 daily, but loves my (very defensive) driving, and would be happy if we took it for a holiday. She usually despises my idiotic acquisitions, so er… good purchase? Didn’t expect this? 
As far as I’m concerned, it’s not going anywhere far until someone takes a proper look at that aux fan, safety of wiring harness bodges, and fueling issue / lack of power gets sorted. Maybe convert it back to the right carburetor as well beforehand. 

As we were close to the fair, took some period-correct, expo 1990 pictures of it as well. I need to come back with an actual camera for a photoshoot. Maybe do it on film for extra brownie points. 😄

 

 

EDIT: Autochoke Weber 32/32 ordered.

[IronStar]

Carburetor Webber arrived this morning. A bit over 40€ delivered. 

The seller didn’t have a corresponding intake manifold though. A bit of a hassle, but I think I know where to find one locally. Ideally, I’ll give a filter housing a quick onceover with a sanding wheel and a finest rattlecan paintjob to make it look a bit nicer.

I’ve also ordered some small NOS bits as well, including some clips a brand new in wrap parcel shelf as this one is looking a bit tired. I’d post a Google translated order list, but it utterly butchered the translation so I decided against it. 

Whilst replacing the seized boot latch the other day, I broke a fairly brittle, cast in ‘88 boot trim. The guy at breakers gave me one he had from the In model, but some clipping places are a bit different and it’s blue as opposed to black, so glue came out.

Before

Getting it back together, round 1 - superglue + baking soda

Part 2 - Epoxy on top for good measure

 

That’s not going anywhere.

Facelift trim has some sponge glued to it, presumably to reduce the vibrations, and this one is bare plastic. I’m thinking of sticking something on this one as well to maybe dampen it a bit and remove the rattles coming from plastic on metal contact. Thoughts?

[Sigmund Fraud]

9 hours ago, IronStar said:

The seller didn’t have a corresponding intake manifold though. A bit of a hassle, but I think I know where to find one locally.

What are you planning to do about the LPG installation ? Presumably the current mixer plate is meant for a single downdraft, so you'll need to find a mixer plate for a twin which may not be easily available.

 

[IronStar]

1 minute ago, Sigmund Fraud said:

What are you planning to do about the LPG installation ? Presumably the current mixer plate is meant for a single downdraft, so you'll need to find a mixer plate for a twin which may not be easily available.

Both carbs were fitted from factory by Zastava, so my guess is that a place that does LPG systems and carbs and has been open for a long time probably has a mixer plate on the shelf or is willing to make one.

[IronStar]

Had some free time this afternoon so decided to tackle a few jobs.

Air intake for twin barrel carb acquired, along with plastic trims holding the parcel shelf.

I removed the horrible bodgework around the passenger side speaker. The wiring connection to it was a twist and no tape job on a negative pole and throw in a wire on a connector and hope it holds on positive one. New negative pole connector solder-heatshrinked, speaker goes in….but not before investigating what’s wrong with power window on this side.

Turns out that this side is just disconnected and switch is working only one way. Everything reconnected, switched driver side switch to passenger side, power window now operational. The passenger side switch has electrical tape signs of someone being there before me which is probably a bad sign and indicates it’s dead dead. Balls.

I also picked up the cover that goes onto the trim hiding the mechanism. Here’s how it looks mounted on.

Speaker goes in, trim goes back. Stereo sound achieved!

I also wanted to replace the stereo, which is an old Pioneer unit with a more modern one I have in storage. First alarm bell was that it keeps losing memory when car is turned of as some genius connected switched live where permanent is supposed to go. Second one was that speaker wiring. Third one was that the cage wasn’t secured and it just came out without the keys. I did not expect this rats nest though.

Pulling it out killed the sound on passenger side, as it’s, you guessed it, another twist and no tape jobbie. That’s the heatshrink tube one, photo was taken after I reconnected it. I have a distinct feeling that owning this car will be a whack-a-mole of what was bodged and how to undo the bodgery. I’m not touching this with 6ft pole for the fear that something will go terribly wrong, and I’ll ask a certified sparky to undo this somehow and put it back to ISO.

For the final absolutely insignificant but cool to me job of the day - aircon button which was previously a working blank got it’s correct snowflake button 😄

 

It’s booked at an electrician tomorrow morning for aux fan, and I’ll try asking extra nicely for them to take a look at the radio wiring harness. I really feel unsafe knowing that that’s there.

[IronStar]

Another day, another fix.

Aux fan is back in action! There was a break in its ground, electrician kindly traced it and put it back together. No more backpressure from AC compressor. He couldn’t be bothered with the stereo wiring and gave me a contact of someone who probably can be. 
The AC belt is absolutely toast though. I got a supposed replacement with the car, and I skipped the queue at a mechanic shop next door to electrician as someone was running late. Belt came off, it’s 13x875LI, no teeth. Replacement that came in the trunk is teethed 13x875LA. As we quickly figured out that one is too short, and no local motorfactors have it in stock. Balls. I’ll order one or 3 I guess. 

The shop was a proper last updated in 81 jobbie. Had an 80s wheel alignment thing as well! 

The guy running it tried tightening the existing absolutely fucked belt, but that only resulted in more burning rubber smell. Ice cold AC was had for a minute before the smell became too apparent to ignore.

It also got a new set of wipers. Rear one was perished, and front was akin to a plastic despite looking new. High quality Skycar brand didn’t help probably. Valeo was purchased, and streak-free wiping was restored.

I also went for a quick visit to a mechanic that used to work in Zastava back in the day, and is a really cool old guy. He previously worked on Cabrio as well, and really knows these cars inside and out. He was really happy to see me and the beer I brought, and I booked the car in for Monday for a full checkup and service. I’m off to a vacation so he has a week to figure out what’s wrong with it, order parts and get it sorted. I’m hoping he gets it done in time so I come back to a fully mechanically sorted car. 
 

I’m hoping to replace the roofliner this weekend, and maybe ask if the sparky #2 has some time to sort out the radio harness tomorrow.