Scudo in FTP shock - now back together!

[djoptix]

Fuck!

 

[gadgetgricey]

Fire the Rocket Boosters and you will be fine,
Whereabouts' are you?

[djoptix]

Worrying grinding noise.

Stopped, can't see anything wrong, but very juddery at idle, vibrating the whole van.

Was thinking of disastrous scenarios like big end, flywheel etc, but finally worked out what's going on...

 

 

Engine mount no longer mounted to the engine.

[djoptix]

Took bolts out for a better view.

Evidence of thread disaster on bolts.

 

[djoptix]

Garage mentioned that they had trouble with bolts when they did the belt.

Am I right in thinking it looks like they might have bunged some chemical metal or similar down there, and boshed it back together?

[SiC]

Dunno. Looks a bit cross threaded and then shoved down with an impact to me. 

Were they one use stretch bolts? I know VAG love doing that on engine mounts. 

[djoptix]

Very much doubt it, surely PSA not that advanced?

Waiting for the AA.

Tried jacking the engine up to try and get the bolts back in, but no dice.

[djoptix]

What are my options? Could I tap the block out to m12, if the current threads (m10) are terminally fuckerated?

[SiC]

Or Helicoil? 

[djoptix]

Have been amusing* myself by trying to poke my phone into the engine bay to try and get a part number on the engine mount.

It ends in 080 so I reckon it is a 1495036080.

[djoptix]

There was one on ebay so I've done a buy.

[djoptix]

Sit rep.

AA meant to get here 2030.

Have jacked up the engine, put a ratchet strap round the body side mount and the AC compressor, then dropped the engine. Ratchet strap now under tension (didn't want the engine to be resting on driveshafts etc if I'm getting towed).

[Datsuncog]

11 minutes ago, djoptix said:

AA meant to get here 2030.

Oh that's not bad - only a five-and-a-half year wait?

 

(On a more serious note - hope you get home safely and it's not too hard a fix)

[djoptix]

Now 2045 and no sign of any knights in shining armour. Or, indeed, local subcontractors sent by the AA.

[dave j]

I had similar happen before on an Octavia, the RAC bloke jacked it up and ratchet strapped it tight so I could drive home. Luckily I only needed 2 new bolts to be back on the road

[2flags]

How are you doing? Has the big yellow taxi arrived yet?

[djoptix]

[djoptix]

I hope he's not going to tow it at that angle, all my tools will fall to the back.

[EyesWeldedShut]

2 minutes ago, djoptix said:

I hope he's not going to tow it at that angle, all my tools will fall to the back.

They’ll be fine, you did lock the doors? 🤔

[djoptix]

Home finally.  Getting flashbacks to the roffle win Alfa 🤣

[djoptix]

Have had a chance to get under her skirts and assess things.

Old mount - or rather parts thereof - came out with no trouble.

Then I took a poke further down and realised that actually, the bit that has the stripped threads in it is a sub-part, it's not actually the block. It's an engine mount... mount. So I was able to remove it once I'd got the belt covers out the way. The threads are only half there, though both bolts will bite into thread in the bottom half... I think...but clearly they pulled out before. The front one is worst, it's definitely been cross threaded and UGGA DUGGAd as @SiC said.

Checked the part number on it (9648325460), and it comes up as a "support moteur" but for a 2.2. I assume that they're the same for the 2.0, rather than the other option which is that this van has been engine swapped to a 2.2 at some point??!

Trouble is, the support moteur isn't as available as the other bit. There's only a few online, none anywhere near. However checking that part number led me to this for some reason - https://ecooparts.com/en/used-auto-part/engine-support/citroen/xantia-berlina/31852563_engine-support-9628311880-citroen-xantia-berlina-20-hdi-90-110-image.html - which led me to a different part number (9628311880) which looks identical, but is more available, such as this one -https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364059901469 - again not available very quickly.

So I'm in a quandary, should I

1. Fit the new top mount with the old lower mount, put bolts back in and hope - but risk the bolts pulling out again and then breaking the new top mount
2. Tap the old lower mount to M12 as best I can, reuse it and fit the new top mount - but I will have to drill out the new top mount as well (to 12mm holes not 10mm, or whatever the actual dimension is), risking weakening it
3. Order a replacement lower mount from Bulgaria for £24, but have to wait longer before getting back in action

... I think I favour option 2, though I will have to buy some M12 bolts and, incredibly annoyingly, an M12 tap because I discovered that water had got into my tap and die set and so I binned it

TWO SODDING DAYS AGO.

[djoptix]

What's the commonest thread pitch for M12? If I buy these - https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-bzp-steel-set-screws-m12-x-100mm-50-pack/64356#product_additional_details_container - will they be 1.25 pitch?

[Mr Pastry]

13 minutes ago, djoptix said:

What's the commonest thread pitch for M12? If I buy these - https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-bzp-steel-set-screws-m12-x-100mm-50-pack/64356#product_additional_details_container - will they be 1.25 pitch?

ISO metric coarse, M12 x 1.75,  ISO metric fine, M12 x 1.5.  M12 x 1.75 is most common. but other types exist.

[lisbon_road]

14 minutes ago, djoptix said:

What's the commonest thread pitch for M12? If I buy these - https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-bzp-steel-set-screws-m12-x-100mm-50-pack/64356#product_additional_details_container - will they be 1.25 pitch?

M12 coarse, effectively standard, is 1.75mm.  Anything else is rare, fines being mostly 1.5 or occasionally 1.25 but you won't get fine from Screwfix. (Mr Pastry got there first!)

Didn't someone mention helicoils?  I'd be tempted to go for an M10 helicoil.  METRIC Helicoil Thread Repair Kit M5 M6 M8 M10 M12 Insert Tool&Twist Drill Bits | eBay

[djoptix]

1 minute ago, lisbon_road said:

I'd be tempted to go for an M10 helicoil

Yes fair point. That might be better. The part which will receive the helicoil is aluminium, will that be OK?

Next question... what thread pitch will the M10 bolts be?!

[djoptix]

Another point in favour of the helicoil option is I can order one on Amazon and it will get here before the new top mount.

[Mr Pastry]

M10 x 1.5 coarse which should be OK into aluminium, but I would suggest that as they are for engine mounts, Screwfix might not be your best source.  An engineering or farm machinery supplier should have something of better quality.

[djoptix]

3 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

M10 x 1.5 coarse which should be OK into aluminium, but I would suggest that as they are for engine mounts, Screwfix might not be your best source.  An engineering or farm machinery supplier should have something of better quality.

You're right - but if I helicoil the old lower mount, I can reuse the bolts that came out. I only need to get new bolts if I'm going up to M12.

[lisbon_road]

8 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

M10 x 1.5 coarse which should be OK into aluminium

Agree, the combination will be much stronger than the original threads.  Being into aluminium, I'd bet the originals are (as Pastry says) 1.5mm pitch as no-one would put a fine pitch into ally.  You might be able to measure them against a ruler or something if you don't have a thread gauge, count ten threads or something, just in case. 

[puntopaul]

Is there any Scudo, Dispatch, or Expert vans with the same 2.0 engine breaking for parts in a nearby scrap yard etc.. just thinking it might provide you with non  knackered bolts and the support bracket that isn't cross threaded!

Like the Scudo by the way my dad has a 2004 Scudo SX 2.0 JTD  in van man white, with non colour coded bumpers or front fogs. Have van envy, can only dream of such luxuries!!