Driving classic cars not fun anymore?

[garellikatia]

On 02/05/2024 at 19:10, Yoss said:

That's a very good point but again I'm lucky that FWD Triumphs are just about the least desirable out there. The engine is similar to the Herald or Spitfire but the rest of the running gear is unique. The market for second hand FWD gearboxes will be very small.

It's funny you should mention non standard gold because if I ever was to get it painted I was considering gold too. It was never an option here but it was in Malta. I found this one in about 1996 or 97. It was completely devoid of lacquer and filthy but you could see it was supposed to be gold. The picture doesn't really show it but it was obvious when you were there.

I visited Malta many times between about 96 and 2003. Mainly for the buses but the first time I arrived the first old car I saw at the airport was a 1300. I soon found out they were everywhere and had in fact been built on the island from knock down kits. Most of them were the same colours we had but they had a few of their own, mainly various shades of beige but also a couple of metallic colours which were never an option back home 

But one night we were on a bus going in to Valletta and as we approached a T junction there was this bright shiny gold 1300 opposite the junction being illuminated by the bus headlights. It was a fleeting sight, it was gone in seconds but to a FWD Triumph obsessive it was like the Second Coming and I've never forgotten it. It practically  glowed in the dark. I went back the next day in daylight but of course it had gone. 

I even have one of these Malta wing badges if I ever get it done. These were fitted to a lot of the Leyland stuff over there. 

Most of them were still being used as mere cars and were generally a right state what with their MOT standards being a lot more lax than ours. But there were a few good ones that were obviously cherished. I found this one tucked in the back of a garage.

And the owner was also in the garage so I started chatting. Obviously mine also has a few mods so we were getting on well when I mentioned the wing badges and he only gave me a brand new one. I still have it obviously waiting for the day I paint the car gold but I doubt it will ever happen.

 

Great story Yoss! What did you do on the busses? 

I love Malta , and I quite agree there are many older cars there aren't there!! Some still been used as regular daily drivers! 

[wuvvum]

On 02/05/2024 at 09:01, straightSix said:

The biggest thing for me with modern cars is the windscreen wipers. With some of the weather recently I'd have had to pull over the rain has been that bad

I've always found the wipers on the Renault 6 to be plenty quick enough in a downpour. 

The Volvo's, on the other hand...

[danthecapriman]

9 hours ago, garellikatia said:

Great story Yoss! What did you do on the busses? 

I love Malta , and I quite agree there are many older cars there aren't there!! Some still been used as regular daily drivers! 

I’ve been watching a few videos on YouTube from Malta made about 10 or 15 years ago, mainly focusing on the trucks and buses. Is it still like that now?

Cyprus was very similar with loads of old stuff still running around but in the last couple of decades it’s really started thinning out and disappearing. Hopefully Malta won’t/hasn't gone the same way.

[dozeydustman]

I think it depends on the car you are driving. The Scimitars were more than capable of being dailies, and I dailied 2 for a number of years, the manual car being the better of the two having the overdrive.

One of the reasons I got the 205 aside from furiously salivating over the advert and being a suitcase engine licker, is because despite being a 40 year old design (possibly 50 given it's Peugeot 104 heritage) it's more than capable in modern traffic which was one of the considerations for my wife and stepdaughter to drive it. It's very easy to drive, the girls managed to drive it quite easily especially stepdaughter who'd never driven manual steering, old brakes and choke; the power to weight ratio is around 75hp per tonne (60hp, ~800kg unladen) which is better than the C2 (55hp, 975kg) so it's peppy, it's economical, motorway driving is not too revvy because of high gearing and a 5-speeder (no rev counter but by ear it sounds ~3000rpm at 70), and it's not too small that you don't get seen. I wouldn't fancy driving it from the south coast to say Glasgow in one hit, but it was more than capable on the journey back from Staffs, I was comfortable until the last half an hour or so of the journey which is about the same as in the Saab or the C2. It handled the crap standstill traffic on the A34, M3 and M27 I encountered with no boiling over.

Had I picked something a bit older, or something without a 5-speed or overdrive I don't know how I'd be. I don't think I'd be as happy on motorways and dual carriageways because over 60mph the engines get busy, but 50-60mph A and B-roads would be fine, I'd be less inclined to go shopping or to work in it because of the risk of parking dings.

[Yoss]

16 hours ago, garellikatia said:

Great story Yoss! What did you do on the busses? 

I love Malta , and I quite agree there are many older cars there aren't there!! Some still been used as regular daily drivers! 

 

7 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

I’ve been watching a few videos on YouTube from Malta made about 10 or 15 years ago, mainly focusing on the trucks and buses. Is it still like that now?

Cyprus was very similar with loads of old stuff still running around but in the last couple of decades it’s really started thinning out and disappearing. Hopefully Malta won’t/hasn't gone the same way.

I think Malta buses were quite legendary. Mostly old British chassis with home made bodies in every sense of the word in that they were both locally built and every one was different. I would often play guess the car the rear lights came off. 

There were also a mix of things like Bristol LHs and ex London Swifts and Merlin's which kept the original bodies but even then they would change the lights/grilles etc, just because they could. There were some very talented bodybuilders on the island.

A lot the buses looked similar but you never really knew what you were getting on until it started moving as the ride and performance would vary wildly. Some were 1950s chassis, things like Leyland Tiger Cubs and Bedford OBs and some were 1970s coach chassis which obviously performed much better, but there was no real way of knowing until you got on.

We used to have a well proven plan which was to go to Valletta bus station and just pick an interesting looking bus regardless of where it was going. This way we got to see parts of the island that the normal tourists didn't and once you got to the end of the route you would have a walk around looking for old chod. It was a win win situation really. Sometimes if I saw a Triumph 1300 I would get off mid route and just have a wander around.

They were all operated by owner drivers or very small companies but the routes were set by the government. But even on my first visit in 1997 there were a couple of new Dennis Darts in for evaluation. Of course none of the individual owners could afford to buy a new bus so their replacements had to be government funded but for some reason the government were determined to modernise the fleet.

I think in the end they franchised the whole lot out and Arriva won the franchise. Then at one point you had the ridiculous situation of some of London's unwanted Mercedes Citaro bendy buses being shipped out there which were totally unsuitable for both Malta's roads and it's operating practices.

I haven't been back for twenty years now. Most of the proper old cars had gone by then and the buses were starting to be replaced.

I have literally hundreds of photos upstairs, which just having had a glance through, I realise would be of interest to people on here but I won't clutter this thread up, I'll put some on the bus thread or maybe start a new one for the cars. But I'll just drop a couple of tasters here.

I'd say this was a typical example if there is such a thing. Probably a Leyland Tiger Cub judging by the badge and signwriting but you could never quite tell, some would have conflicting badges. You can see a modern* coach next to it.

 

A beautifully kept Thames something or other.

 

And a perfect example of just changing something because they could. An ex London Swift with the original body but an AEC lorry grille grafted on and some completely different headlights.

[HMC]

One flipside (ok a bit tenuous but read on…)is the uplifting effect when a newer car just works. Going from the daily shad shed, to say the 2009 ford focus; I was what can only be described as elated when both windscreen wipers worked, and the windows could be lowered.

I was truely grateful for those things on my less iconic newer car. Sometimes there are limitations on old stuff, for various reasons, but the contrast is refreshing and it makes you grateful for and appreciate the unsung footsoldiers on the payroll.

If your classic IS an unsung footsoldier that keeps putting it’s shifts in, then you really have won at life.

[danthecapriman]

19 minutes ago, Yoss said:

 

I think Malta buses were quite legendary. Mostly old British chassis with home made bodies in every sense of the word in that they were both locally built and every one was different. I would often play guess the car the rear lights came off. 

There were also a mix of things like Bristol LHs and ex London Swifts and Merlin's which kept the original bodies but even then they would change the lights/grilles etc, just because they could. There were some very talented bodybuilders on the island.

A lot the buses looked similar but you never really knew what you were getting on until it started moving as the ride and performance would vary wildly. Some were 1950s chassis, things like Leyland Tiger Cubs and Bedford OBs and some were 1970s coach chassis which obviously performed much better, but there was no real way of knowing until you got on.

We used to have a well proven plan which was to go to Valletta bus station and just pick an interesting looking bus regardless of where it was going. This way we got to see parts of the island that the normal tourists didn't and once you got to the end of the route you would have a walk around looking for old chod. It was a win win situation really. Sometimes if I saw a Triumph 1300 I would get off mid route and just have a wander around.

They were all operated by owner drivers or very small companies but the routes were set by the government. But even on my first visit in 1997 there were a couple of new Dennis Darts in for evaluation. Of course none of the individual owners could afford to buy a new bus so their replacements had to be government funded but for some reason the government were determined to modernise the fleet.

I think in the end they franchised the whole lot out and Arriva won the franchise. Then at one point you had the ridiculous situation of some of London's unwanted Mercedes Citaro bendy buses being shipped out there which were totally unsuitable for both Malta's roads and it's operating practices.

I haven't been back for twenty years now. Most of the proper old cars had gone by then and the buses were starting to be replaced.

I have literally hundreds of photos upstairs, which just having had a glance through, I realise would be of interest to people on here but I won't clutter this thread up, I'll put some on the bus thread or maybe start a new one for the cars. But I'll just drop a couple of tasters here.

I'd say this was a typical example if there is such a thing. Probably a Leyland Tiger Cub judging by the badge and signwriting but you could never quite tell, some would have conflicting badges. You can see a modern* coach next to it.

 

A beautifully kept Thames something or other.

 

And a perfect example of just changing something because they could. An ex London Swift with the original body but an AEC lorry grille grafted on and some completely different headlights.

A resounding YES PLEASE to posting up photos!

Maybe all in their own thread? At least then you can see everything in one place.

 

It’s a massive shame the government’s of these places start sticking their oar in and ruining things. Those old trucks and buses in Malta were every bit part of why Malta was special and unique. Sure it’s a beautiful place and all but the old vehicles still working over there were part of the attraction to it too. It’s like a little window back in time in that respect. It gives the place a big chunk of its identity.  
If you went on holiday and saw (for example) that Thames ET6/7 bus even the most non car people in the world would see it and recognise it as something special and different. Maybe decide to get on and go somewhere? Maybe even have their photo taken with it? 
Who wants to go there and see a modern boring bus that’s the exact same thing you could see in your home town. The only difference between getting on that bus here or there would be that it’s sunny and dry there!

See also - London. London is the Routemaster bus and the FX4 cab. Recognised world wide. So let’s get rid of them! 
New York - Yellow cabs specifically. I want to see and go in a Checker cab, or a Crown Vic or an Impala… not some wank Toyota or shitty Connect van… I get to see enough of that crap at home!

Cyprus was very similar to Malta like that. They had loads of old cars, trucks and buses running around. It was fantastic to see them. I remember going for the first time in 98/99ish and the first thing I saw after stepping out of the hotel the next morning was an AEC Ergomatic of some kind burbling it’s way up the hill! Absolutely awesome! 
Since the mid noughties though it’s been gradually disappearing… and now it’s just like everywhere else!

Anyway ranting and raving aside. I’d love to see the photos!😆

[Dyslexic Viking]

On 29/04/2024 at 15:17, Dyslexic Viking said:

Negative things are that it is a bit underpowered with a 40kw diesel engine and is low geared so at higher speeds there is a lot of engine noise and it does not like speeds over 80km/h. And this limits its use a bit

I have to correct myself a bit on this. I wrote this before I had driven the car much after winter storage. And after a week of a lot of use, this is not true, it has enough power, at least by my standard, to be a fully usebale car. And it climbs hills and do everything without a problem. But the speed part is correct.

Used it on a trip to town today and handled heavy traffic with no problem. And did the trip as good as a modern car and possibly better as I enjoyed the drive and wasn't bored.

[Yoss]

3 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

A resounding YES PLEASE to posting up photos!

Maybe all in their own thread? At least then you can see everything in one place.

 

It’s a massive shame the government’s of these places start sticking their oar in and ruining things. Those old trucks and buses in Malta were every bit part of why Malta was special and unique. Sure it’s a beautiful place and all but the old vehicles still working over there were part of the attraction to it too. It’s like a little window back in time in that respect. It gives the place a big chunk of its identity.  
If you went on holiday and saw (for example) that Thames ET6/7 bus even the most non car people in the world would see it and recognise it as something special and different. Maybe decide to get on and go somewhere? Maybe even have their photo taken with it? 
Who wants to go there and see a modern boring bus that’s the exact same thing you could see in your home town. The only difference between getting on that bus here or there would be that it’s sunny and dry there!

See also - London. London is the Routemaster bus and the FX4 cab. Recognised world wide. So let’s get rid of them! 
New York - Yellow cabs specifically. I want to see and go in a Checker cab, or a Crown Vic or an Impala… not some wank Toyota or shitty Connect van… I get to see enough of that crap at home!

Cyprus was very similar to Malta like that. They had loads of old cars, trucks and buses running around. It was fantastic to see them. I remember going for the first time in 98/99ish and the first thing I saw after stepping out of the hotel the next morning was an AEC Ergomatic of some kind burbling it’s way up the hill! Absolutely awesome! 
Since the mid noughties though it’s been gradually disappearing… and now it’s just like everywhere else!

Anyway ranting and raving aside. I’d love to see the photos!😆

Cheers, I'll try and dig some out over the weekend. I'll probably put the bus ones in the bus thread, that seems to make sense then start a new one for the cars. I should warn you I have an eighty space album full of just Triumph 1300s.

[Dyslexic Viking]

3 hours ago, Yoss said:

 

I like the text on top of the windshield.

[Yoss]

15 minutes ago, Dyslexic Viking said:

I like the text on top of the windshield.

I had never noticed that before, thank you.

[HMC]

30 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I had never noticed that before, thank you.

I could probably google but what is “ashok leyland” some years ago i had a stopover in Mauritius and saw a few buses with that on. apols for thread drift

[danthecapriman]

1 hour ago, Yoss said:

Cheers, I'll try and dig some out over the weekend. I'll probably put the bus ones in the bus thread, that seems to make sense then start a new one for the cars. I should warn you I have an eighty space album full of just Triumph 1300s.

😄I’m sure that won’t be a problem!

[Yoss]

5 hours ago, HMC said:

I could probably google but what is “ashok leyland” some years ago i had a stopover in Mauritius and saw a few buses with that on. apols for thread drift

Ashok were an Indian company who built Leyland stuff under licence. When London Transport were evaluating new engines to put in the Routemasters in the early 1990s one bus was fitted with an Ashok version of the Leyland O680. There were also buses fitted with a Daf which was also a relative of the Leyland, a Cummins and an Iveco. From an enthusiasts point of view they went with worst two options, the Cummins and Iveco. How great would it have been to have London filled with the sounds of the Ashok Leyland. 

Fortunately the Daf engined bus, RM 545, survived in to preservation and still exists today. It too sounds lovely with a really loud, deep engine note. 

Unfortunately many Iveco engined buses still survive too and sound shit. Not shite, just shit. Ah well. 

[Rod/b]

On 02/05/2024 at 22:10, Yoss said:

That's a very good point but again I'm lucky that FWD Triumphs are just about the least desirable out there. The engine is similar to the Herald or Spitfire but the rest of the running gear is unique. The market for second hand FWD gearboxes will be very small.

It's funny you should mention non standard gold because if I ever was to get it painted I was considering gold too. It was never an option here but it was in Malta. I found this one in about 1996 or 97. It was completely devoid of lacquer and filthy but you could see it was supposed to be gold. The picture doesn't really show it but it was obvious when you were there.

I visited Malta many times between about 96 and 2003. Mainly for the buses but the first time I arrived the first old car I saw at the airport was a 1300. I soon found out they were everywhere and had in fact been built on the island from knock down kits. Most of them were the same colours we had but they had a few of their own, mainly various shades of beige but also a couple of metallic colours which were never an option back home 

But one night we were on a bus going in to Valletta and as we approached a T junction there was this bright shiny gold 1300 opposite the junction being illuminated by the bus headlights. It was a fleeting sight, it was gone in seconds but to a FWD Triumph obsessive it was like the Second Coming and I've never forgotten it. It practically  glowed in the dark. I went back the next day in daylight but of course it had gone. 

I even have one of these Malta wing badges if I ever get it done. These were fitted to a lot of the Leyland stuff over there. 

Most of them were still being used as mere cars and were generally a right state what with their MOT standards being a lot more lax than ours. But there were a few good ones that were obviously cherished. I found this one tucked in the back of a garage.

And the owner was also in the garage so I started chatting. Obviously mine also has a few mods so we were getting on well when I mentioned the wing badges and he only gave me a brand new one. I still have it obviously waiting for the day I paint the car gold but I doubt it will ever happen.

 

BL had an assembly operation in Malta, presumably the wing badges signified the locally built cars.

https://www.aronline.co.uk/around-the-world/around-the-world-malta/

[Rod/b]

27 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Ashok were an Indian company who built Leyland stuff under licence. When London Transport were evaluating new engines to put in the Routemasters in the early 1990s one bus was fitted with an Ashok version of the Leyland O680. There were also buses fitted with a Daf which was also a relative of the Leyland, a Cummins and an Iveco. From an enthusiasts point of view they went with worst two options, the Cummins and Iveco. How great would it have been to have London filled with the sounds of the Ashok Leyland. 

Fortunately the Daf engined bus, RM 545, survived in to preservation and still exists today. It too sounds lovely with a really loud, deep engine note. 

Unfortunately many Iveco engined buses still survive too and sound shit. Not shite, just shit. Ah well. 

Ashok Leyland are still very much a thing. A lot of labour busses and school busses in the Middle East are A-L although typically these days they seem to be going to Chinese manufacturers. Probably not a bad thing as the A-L kit all seemed to be extraordinarily noisy, filthy machines that whilst they’ll probably go on forever do seem to be a bit of an anachronism.

https://www.ashokleyland.com

[AnthonyG]

Don’t Ashok Leyland now own Optare?

I love the fact that they still use the swirling L logo, designed about 60 years ago! 

[Dyslexic Viking]

Talk about Ashok Leyland reminded me of this one.

 

[ETCHY]

5 hours ago, Rod/b said:

Ashok Leyland are still very much a thing. A lot of labour busses and school busses in the Middle East are A-L although typically these days they seem to be going to Chinese manufacturers. Probably not a bad thing as the A-L kit all seemed to be extraordinarily noisy, filthy machines that whilst they’ll probably go on forever do seem to be a bit of an anachronism.

https://www.ashokleyland.com

My other half's late Grandad helped set up the foundry at Ashok in the 1950's (he managed it). First thing he had to do was send back to Leyland for boots for the Indian guys working in the foundry as they were barefoot/wore sandals !

 

 

[ETCHY]

On 04/05/2024 at 09:38, danthecapriman said:

I’ve been watching a few videos on YouTube from Malta made about 10 or 15 years ago, mainly focusing on the trucks and buses. Is it still like that now?

Cyprus was very similar with loads of old stuff still running around but in the last couple of decades it’s really started thinning out and disappearing. Hopefully Malta won’t/hasn't gone the same way.

We went to Malta in 2019.

Got to say where we stayed in Sliema & travelled out to Valletta & elsewhere the old buses were just heritage type tours & modern type stuff was the norm. We'd been to Malta many times in previous years & travelled on the old buses (loved doing that) & the new buses including a different ticket system wasn't as good IMO.

Valletta bus station had also changed & that was again IMO not as good either.
 

A heck of a lot of the older cars had gone too.

It was still ok but for me a lot of the character had gone.

 

 

[danthecapriman]

6 hours ago, Yoss said:

Ashok were an Indian company who built Leyland stuff under licence. When London Transport were evaluating new engines to put in the Routemasters in the early 1990s one bus was fitted with an Ashok version of the Leyland O680. There were also buses fitted with a Daf which was also a relative of the Leyland, a Cummins and an Iveco. From an enthusiasts point of view they went with worst two options, the Cummins and Iveco. How great would it have been to have London filled with the sounds of the Ashok Leyland. 

Fortunately the Daf engined bus, RM 545, survived in to preservation and still exists today. It too sounds lovely with a really loud, deep engine note. 

Unfortunately many Iveco engined buses still survive too and sound shit. Not shite, just shit. Ah well. 

It’s a real pity they didnt see fit to trial some Routemaster’s fitted with Detroit Diesels!😁