Hello Pug .. Bye Bye Voyager

[Bfg]

Sadly my Chrysler Grand Voyager is wobbling its way out of my life, and heading (scheduled on Monday) to the great used parts jamboree in Cyberspace ..via RemoveMyCar 

This was a car bought while moving house, during Covid three years ago, for the princely sum of £600.  Despite the neglectful prior-owner care, and my own lack of spending, it has served me very well.    RemoveMyCar on-line offered a decent price to break / scrap the car.  But still, as a big softy, it's very sad for me to think of her heartlessly being ripped apart and then crushed, not least because I think she still looks great. (the photo was taken this week) 

However in the past, when things failed, the prior owner(s) never paid to have each individual thing rectified. So when I bought it - those things had become a list.. and I likewise couldn't afford, nor justify the expense.  The glow plug sensor misreads and so even on the iciest (is that a real word ?) of mornings they don't preheat. The water in the radiator barely got warm (thermostat failure ?) so the car's heater never worked, nor did the electrically heated seats. Then last year the PAS decided to leave a puddle on the driveway, and since then the steering has become ever more wobbly.  All in all, with the MOT due in just a few weeks, I had to ..reluctantly concede that the cost of repairs far outweighed the cost of replacement with a newer, albeit not as well built, brand.  

I've agree £389 for the car, which is better than what I might get from the local scrap yard.  That's cheap for the persons who might sell the nice wheels and v.good tyres for as much, and then have everything else to part out.  Still, even car breakers need to earn a living.   For me, well a little more than £200 in depreciation ..plus a front engine mount, handbrake shoes, battery, and good second hand tyres.. is cheap running costs for three years of service.  Accordingly, I still rate Chrysler voyagers (this one being my third in a row) to be great cars with the bonus of exceptional car-camping / load volume within.

- - -

My criteria for a 'new' car was that it should be (in no particular order)

• diesel (of good repute)
• manual gearbox
• spacious (although not as big as the Chrysler for parking) + hatchback, with low load sill - which is easier for loading heavy items like an engine. 
• 2010 or younger
• good service history
• full MOT
• lower running costs - particularly road fund license
• of a marque that didn't carry a fashion tax (I like Audi and BMW, Jaguar, Volvo and Mercedes, but I'm terrified of the potential bill should anything go wrong.
• one or two owners
• lower tax group
• two keys
• within a sensible (30 mile) viewing distance from Ipswich, so definitely excluding ULEZ.
• preferably where the cam belt had been done
• preferably in a lower insurance group
• preferably with cruise control
• and a sun roof would be nice
• under £2000

Of course, whatever is in the marketplace is different each day, and not everything on the wish-list may be locally achievable within such a modest budget.  I had been looking for a VW Passat estate (good build quality) and then a Toyota Aventis estate (for reliability) ..and then anything which more or less fitted the criteria and budget.  Last week, a Pug cropped up on Autotrader website that best seemed to fit the bill.  25 miles away in Colchester..

  

Peugeot 308SW 1.6 HDI SE   Autotrader review < here >

I went to see it last Friday, and was stuck on the A12 southbound for 2 hours when that road was closed and then the diversion through Stanway was blocked by another accident.  I arrived not at 4pm but 6.  Looking at a black car in the dark was specifically not my intent. !   My friend Rich had met me there and we went for a short test drive.  It seemed tight and without clunk or groan over pot holes and poor roads.  Paul trading as Web Car Mart  seemed to specialise in good used but not silly high end priced Volvo, seems a decent chap, and without hassle knocked £95 off the price and added 3 months / 3,000 mile major component warranty. ie., if the engine or gearbox blows up take it back and get a full refund.  The battery and front tyres were new last year, and aside from dog's hairs in each corner of the interior and scratches by the interior door handle it seemed very tidy ..for a 13-1/2 year old car.  Rich pointed out the A/C whirred more than it might when disengaged but I wouldn't have noticed it was worse than 'normal' for a freewheeling.

I went back on Saturday, to see the car in daylight and aside from claw, or bling, scratch marks around each door handle ..and the dog's hairs,  it seems a very straight and well looked after car.  It started easily from cold.  For good or for bad - I made the decision to buy at £1900.  Perhaps not the best price for a 308SW of this year, but seemingly the best value I could find ..without spending weeks traipsing around the country chasing frustratingly deceitful descriptions and wasted journey times.        

The front disc wear is an advisory on the new MOT, but otherwise, from the file of receipts, the prior owners seemed to have spent fair monies to keep the car in good order.  Unfortunately, judging by the invoices, the cam-belt hasn't been done.  The service book suggests 140,000 miles or every 10-years for this car, this engine, and so although only 111,000 miles - it ought to have been replaced 3+ years ago.  

I've subsequently phoned the last two garages which regularly serviced the car, and neither say they've done the job.  So I'll be facing a big bill.  Of course.. I'm now also thinking that perhaps I should have added another £500 to my budget to find one who cam-belt had been done.  Hey Ho., second guessing isn't a very productive mindset - so I'll just have to live with the decision.         

I'll go onto Facebook and ask of our local motoring enthusiasts, East Coast Retros  (some of whom also frequent these pages) if they might recommend a local company or roving mechanic who might to do the belt for me.?  I gather the water pump ought to be replaced at the same time.   

So there we are.. the Chrysler due to go on Monday, and I'm to go and collect the Pug tomorrow, Friday, from Colchester.

21st century cars, are a terrifying prospect to many, including an old timer like myself .. what with all their sensors and sub-assembles (whereby an individual part cannot be repaired or replaced).  I can but hope and pray that this car is not going to be a money-pyre on wheels. 

I'll post piccies when I can

Pete

 

[fatharris]

I'm trying to work out if these 308s were peak-malaise era of Peugeot, but I hope it does you a turn!

[Matty]

Providing you don't get any horrors it's a modern looking frugal estate for less than 2 grand. Should be sound Pete!

[PicantoJon]

So far I've been able to do the mechanical stuff on my own 207 SW, and my technical skills are just beyond the knowing arses from elbows stage.

[Sigmund Fraud]

23 hours ago, Bfg said:

21st century cars, are a terrifying prospect to many, including an old timer like myself .. what with all their sensors and sub-assembles (whereby an individual part cannot be repaired or replaced).  I can but hope and pray that this car is not going to be a money-pyre on wheels.

If you intend to do any amount of tinkering on your 308, access to the PSA Diagbox hardware and software is a really really good idea.

[Bfg]

...  local bus was 14 minutes late (according to website timetable) when it came, and so at the railways station I bought the ticket and boarded with half a minute to spare.  Odd thing but on the bus and on the train I was the only one with a book, seemed as if everyone else had mobile phone devices on the go  ..a really anti-social environment.  Remind me to cross the Orient Express and Trans-Siberian railway off of my bucket-list. 

Paul the seller, trading as WebCarMart on AutoTrader, was there to collect me in his Jagwaar ..and soon thereafter I was heading off in the Pug wagon.

Straight to a Harvester pub-restaurant for coffee and a late breakfast. Then off to see a friend who lived nearby (he couldn't join me at the pub, because of his SWMBO).  On the way back I stopped in at Aldi, for a bottle of red, and parked the car reasonably straight despite its peculiarly slant eyed wing mirrors. And then off home. 

     

The 308 drives like a small car, which is a bit of a comedown after three successive grand Voyagers, but beggars, so I'm told, cannot be choosers.  I wonder if road noise might be reduced a little if I deflate the tyres a few psi.?    Performance with a diesel 110bhp is nippy rather than quick, and the six speed gearbox will take some getting used to.  It's gate is back to front to the Chrysler and so I kept finding the wrong gear.  Otherwise, I like the moon roof,  and the car is not uncomfortable for an old fart whose 6 foot - 5".  I also like the white main-instrument dials, I thought these were only on the 'sport' spec Pugs ..so that's a bonus.  All on my own, I did manage to fathom out how to work the cruise control and column controls for audio volume. Also the electric mirrors and windows adjustment ..and how to turn off the climate to get a little fresh air through the vents.  But I'd really like to turn down the orange dashboard information displays.

First short drive (25 miles) of urban and motorway .. For me it's the sort of car that you drive because you need to get somewhere, not because it's a luxury experience or because you enjoy driving that particular car.  Perhaps I'm being unkind. A person of a young and reckless mindset might have fun ..As I remember having in the Peugeot 205.   It doesn't matter though, because I bought this car as my winter 'daily'.  however I'm really glad to have more interesting cars to drive ..and that I don't have to commute to an office and sit in one of those padded grey enclosures.  I think a rebellion of frivolity is long overdue. Everyday life must be so humdrum for millions of Britons.

Anyway, back home I was interested to see how big this Peugeot was compared to what I'm very used to. . .

 

I knew minis and other old time favourites had been fed steroids, but this was a surprise.  The Chrysler is a Grand Voyager (..so 8" longer than the regular Voyager) and has a flat 8ft x 4ft load space when its seats are lifted out, as well as large sliding side doors for clear shopping-mall access into that space.  The Peugeot 308 is much the same width & length, and has the load capacity of an estate car with a high roof line.  I thought I'd bought a small car, easier for parking spaces, etc. ? !

It does have a good size boot, together with a low loading sill, and I understand the rear seats do lift out.  But, as it is with the mid-row seats in.. three carrier bags of shopping on those seats sorta filled it.  I'd need to load from the other side to fit more in.   Wow, I hadn't appreciated just how exceptional the Chrysler's interior design was.  

I'm not complaining or even hugely disappointed in the Pug, I'm just observing the differences.  And those differences must equally include ; a 2010 Chrysler Grand Voyager would have cost me twice the money, would have been a automatic, and more insurance, and road tax at £675 p.a. (versus the Pug's at £150), and close to half the fuel efficiency. If I insisted on buying a Voyager with a full-service-history, then the price goes up to 2-1/2 times what I paid for Pug.  Bottom line ; is a matter of paying the money to buy empty space.  And it all depends on whether one needs or values that above and beyond affordability.  

It'll be interesting to see how I get on with the Pug after a few months.  I'm sure the Pug will do all I need it to as an everyday driver,  but I doubt if I'll ever go glamping in it. 

Pete

     

 

[PicantoJon]

To tone down the orangeyness, press the left hand sticky out thing on the instrument cluster. 👍

[Matty]

1 hour ago, PicantoJon said:

To tone down the orangeyness, press the left hand sticky out thing on the instrument cluster. 👍

I was going to say "to tone down the orangeyness of the display messages,  don't buy a PSA product". But then I didn't know about the left hand sticky out thing 😄

[Bfg]

17 hours ago, Matty said:

don't buy a PSA product".

Amazing...  I didn't realise these modern fandangle cars also checked for prostate-specific antigens..   There seems to be sensors on & in everything nowadays. ! 

Does one have to drive around butt naked or does it scan through m' jeans ?  

 

[Matty]

33 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Amazing...  I didn't realise these modern fandangle cars also checked for prostate-specific antigens..   There seems to be sensors on & in everything nowadays. ! 

Does one have to drive around butt naked or does it scan through m' jeans ?  

 

Defo leave the jeans on. Could end up in a whole new world of trouble otherwise 😄

[Bfg]

In resolution to the convenience of of having more estate-boot space today I removed the rear seats. . .

  

^ Three individual seats. any or all can be removed. Simply pull the seat's various straps to fold the back down, to tilt the seat forward, and then release its clamps. They even provide a lifting handle for one's convenience.  These seats are half the weight of those in the Chrysler and also smaller, so undoubtable less comfortable than those in that car, but also a darn sight easier to lift out.  Please.. No comment about the mess of dog's hairs under these seats and in the boot.. I paid good money for it

The 308SW rear space is pretty good when those seats are cleared out of the way. If the floor was flat rather than stepped in the middle then a night or two glamping would be possible. and of course that step could easily be filled with a piece of foam.  For me thought, I can foresee its usefulness in carrying boat bits and my TR engine when that's reassembled. 

^ I'll mostly be using the car like this though. I'll carry the third seat.. just in case, but will find the clearer mid-floor and side door more convenient for everyday carrying of shopping and tools. I'll lay an old carpet offcut over all those seat-fastening holes.

 

^ I wasn't sure if this model of 308 had it, but as you can see it does have the opening back window. It might be useful for loading smaller bags into the back of the car ..when parked close to something behind. 

That was it for today, aside from much more cleaning of inside corners. 

I've also swapped the Chrysler's battery, which I bought 18 months ago, with its old one. The old battery was okay for warmer weather, but didn't cope when it's cold.  I see no point in a good battery going to the scrap-man, not least when I need one for my boat's outboard. 

Scratch marks (claws or bling jewellery) around door handles to touch-in tomorrow, if the weather remains dry and mild. 

Aside from scratched alloy wheel rims (curbstone parking) It'll look a tidy car then.

Bidding you a good evening,  Pete 

 

[Bfg]

11 minutes ago, Matty said:

Defo leave the jeans on. Could end up in a whole new world of trouble otherwise 😄

I dunno, my having got caught by ULez last month (..I didn't know their toll zones had been extended to the outer suburbs )  ..and having a moon roof - seems like a good opportunity for those cameras to record what I think of them !

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

2 hours ago, Bfg said:

I dunno, my having got caught by ULez last month (..I didn't know their toll zones had been extended to the outer suburbs )  ..and having a moon roof - seems like a good opportunity for those cameras to record what I think of them !

 

Erm... I don't think they call them "moon roofs" for that reason !

[RichardK]

Glad that Voyager is a diesel, I'd have been sad seeing a V6 one go for some fixable things.

I think 307 is peak PSA porridge and the 308 was when they started to improve...

[Dobloseven]

Just now, RichardK said:

Glad that Voyager is a diesel, I'd have been sad seeing a V6 one go for some fixable things.

I think 307 is peak PSA porridge and the 308 was when they started to improve...

What about the first gen 3008?

[RichardK]

Just now, Dobloseven said:

What about the first gen 3008?

It was at least vaguely weird looking? Maybe 1007.

[Dobloseven]

2 minutes ago, RichardK said:

It was at least vaguely weird looking? Maybe 1007.

If weirdness is the criteria,is any Peugeot weirder than the 1007? Apparently they made a mock up to show the public,who said it was just what they wanted and would definitely buy them.........! Haven't seen one for ages.There was one abandoned in a front garden on a dog walk,but disappeared a long while back.

[PicantoJon]

On 17/02/2024 at 17:03, Bfg said:

 ^ I wasn't sure if this model of 308 had it, but as you can see it does have the opening back window. It might be useful for loading smaller bags into the back of the car ..when parked close to something behind. 

My 207 SW has that too, especially handy seeing as the boot release has given up... 

[GeordieInExile]

On 15/02/2024 at 18:51, fatharris said:

I'm trying to work out if these 308s were peak-malaise era of Peugeot, but I hope it does you a turn!

I know they're horrible, but I quite like a 207. The good thing about driving them is you can't see the exterior from inside the car. 

[Bfg]

Got the insurance company's OBD-II dongle to plug into the car so that they can track mileage, and probably location too whether or not the car is stolen.  

However they never told me that ; when plugged in it would leave a hole through the dashboard, because the cover ..the back of the cubby hole, now doesn't fit ! . . .

That tracker box sits out too far, so I have the choice.. accept it or cancel the policy.   Now that's what I call customer 'service'.  Thank you ByMiles Insurance.

I asked their customer support if there was another socket on the car to plug into, perhaps in the engine bay, and they've advised not. This car has just the one.

They did offer an extension lead but that it seems is 1cm in diameter x 25-30 cm long and so that also wouldn't tuck neatly away.

. . . I'm not chuffed with the non-resolution.  Although I can of course cut the back cover of the cubby hole to have this poking through, but it doesn't please me to do so.   

Polite suggestions on a postcard please.

Pete

[loserone]

Find an insurer that doesn't need a tracker.

[Dobloseven]

Come on Bfg,surely a man of your many talents can design and produce a modified cover!

[Zelandeth]

Tell them to shove their tracker where the sun don't shine.  The more people who put up with this nonsense the more companies will normalise it and we'll all end up stuck with it.  

Most likely all it's pulling from the OBD socket is power, I'd be very surprised if the device itself isn't entirely self contained.  Mileage recording etc will all be done by it using GPS and regularly phoning home rather than taking data from the host vehicle.  Also likely reporting to them if you're doing anything they class as high risk...such as braking sharply, driving quickly, using motorways or accelerating anything resembling briskly.

I'm not a tin foil hat sort of person, but this normalisation of people plugging trackers into their cars being required by insurers is something which really puts my back up.  It's just one step too far, and I can really see a situation where something happens and then they turn around and say "No, we're not paying out because our telemetry shows you were doing 70.0000002mph at the time of the accident." Being in the future.

[SmokinWaffle]

5 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Tell them to shove their tracker where the sun don't shine.  The more people who put up with this nonsense the more companies will normalise it and we'll all end up stuck with it.  

Most likely all it's pulling from the OBD socket is power, I'd be very surprised if the device itself isn't entirely self contained.  Mileage recording etc will all be done by it using GPS and regularly phoning home rather than taking data from the host vehicle.  Also likely reporting to them if you're doing anything they class as high risk...such as braking sharply, driving quickly, using motorways or accelerating anything resembling briskly.

I'm not a tin foil hat sort of person, but this normalisation of people plugging trackers into their cars being required by insurers is something which really puts my back up.  It's just one step too far, and I can really see a situation where something happens and then they turn around and say "No, we're not paying out because our telemetry shows you were doing 70.0000002mph at the time of the accident." Being in the future.

Agreed. Makes sense for new drivers probably but even then - the whole insurance game is bollocks 

My partner had a black box in her first car. She had to swerve and slam on brakes to avoid t boning someone who pulled out on her and probably would have written off both cars and / or killed either party if she didn't - and she got a warning for "harsh braking/movement" or some other tosh. Works in theory but in practice it has many caveats. 

[Noel Tidybeard]

21 hours ago, SmokinWaffle said:

Agreed. Makes sense for new drivers probably but even then - the whole insurance game is bollocks 

My partner had a black box in her first car. She had to swerve and slam on brakes to avoid t boning someone who pulled out on her and probably would have written off both cars and / or killed either party if she didn't - and she got a warning for "harsh braking/movement" or some other tosh. Works in theory but in practice it has many caveats. 

this would be where you send the dashcam footage with a firm "BOLLOCKS! 🖕" as a reply

[Bfg]

I went to that insurance company because it offered me the best value.  I could cut off my nose to spite my face and tell them to stuff it, or whatever other expression you prefer, but in buying this 'modern' car - I recognised that the world has moved on since the 20th-century. The cherry has been popped and there is Fck-all that you or I can do about it.  I didn't want a car with sensors built into every sub assembly, but then neither did I want speed cameras, or ULez, or 'traffic', or street, or drone cameras watching our every move, nor a mobile phone that can be traced.  I certainly don't want blanket 20mph speed limits, not fck stupid speed limits which really don't make sense.  I don't want road markings which tell drivers that they can turn right in a left hand lane on a roundabout.  And I think the whole road tax and road repair is a screw up. 

Nor do I want my phone and computer to continually update, whereby the programs I'd paid good money for no longer work.  I certainly don't want whatever data they are downloading onto it, nor their scanning which websites I go onto, or the things I might show a passing interest in.  I curse pop-up adverts, ever-repetitive radio adverts, and business and civil telephone lines which are never answered.  Everyone must now use the internet.  Do or die.

I loathe profiteering through deception, whoever does it.  And I hate the endemic of lies and the half truths that politics at all levels foster ..from super-power governments to local club politics - I don't trust the word of one of them. 

I find it truly despicable that all this technology is applied to making me behave ..where child porn and all sorts of other physical and mental abuse throughout the world over is left to its own devices.  I find it incredible that scams and identity theft, collapse or pension plans, and even the Post Office can and still do cost families their life savings. I find it infuriating that my retirement hopes of living in Europe for six months of the year, went out of the window because of some screwed up Brexit referendum. And similarly the con that was covid. Each of these of course still need to be paid for, but please let's not hold to account who is to blame. Let those chaps retire with their bonuses to their country estate.

I cannot understand how a criminal who has spent most of his or her life ripping people off or killing/maiming some, gets a pension and then free care-home, whereas those who have worked and saved all their lives - suddenly find their savings have diminished in value, and then they have to sell their children's inheritance to pay for care.  I find it unthinkable that celebrities are paid millions for being stupid, while the health-worker, fireman, and (good) police officers who clean up societies shit every week, struggle to pay their bills.  As a retiree, my single bedroom rental apartment, in a modest suburb of Ipswich, costs more each month than my state pension. Go figure I'm on a diet.! 

And it's crazy to me that education system is so strictly monitored by check boxes on a form, and yet an intuitive teacher is limited in what they can teach each 'individual' child by the curriculum.   

As a person of considerably years. I could go on and on, but what's the point. Nobody listens, and nobody cares.  "That's progress" or  "That's evolution" we are told.

My plugging a tracking device into this car, is not going to change the insurance companies, not the world ..nor even will it be the start of a ripple effect.  The idea of an apocalypse wouldn't appeal to anyone with children, nephew or nieces - so perhaps parents ought instead to instil in the future generations - workable ideas of how a world might possibly be without all the crap.?  Change has to start with a vision.

Capitalism incites greed and power, Communism has proven corruptible, but oddly enough - each sought more and more information and control..  Isn't that what all these cameras and tracking devices are all about.. Track the vehicle and get out of paying an insurance claim.  That may come, but ByMiles are saying not at this time.  They say that the car is insured when parked and the premium for that cost £xxx.  And the car is insured for road risk and £yyy of the premium is for that. So they track your car to see whether over the next 12 months it's parked more or driven more than initially declared.  That's all.  If you drive it less they give you a refund, if you exceed your declared mileage they'll ask you for more money.  

Yep, you're probably right, in the near future all cars will be tracked.  Be a good clone and you'll have nothing to concern yourself with.!

Pete.