1987 Ford Sierra Sapphire 1.8L - ICE ICE Baby - see page 36

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, danthecapriman said:

I must admit, I don’t find any petrol smells with the Capri, which is just an older more basic version of your Sierra set up. Very occasionally you do get a slight whiff if you stand near the fuel tank on a hot day but nothing else. It’s just the tank breathing.

I do get it on the Mercury though. When it’s just stood sometimes you can smell a slight petrol smell from the front of the car, but sometimes when driving it you get an odd whiff then it goes. I can’t see any problems though - nothing’s leaking, it’s not over fuelling or anything like that. 
I just put up with it now! It’s not an offensive smell or constant but it is there sometimes. I just put it down to ‘old car stuff’!

I’m starting to think that I should just put up with the smell and accept that the Sierra is an old car.

[Peter C]

1 hour ago, lisbon_road said:

Might be worth checking the float height in the carb 

I wouldn’t know where to begin.

[Noel Tidybeard]

some car just do waft occasionally- my dad had a "L" reg micra that did

[Zelandeth]

12 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I’m starting to think that I should just put up with the smell and accept that the Sierra is an old car.

In the same vein, it's worth remembering that there are a lot more in the way of volatile additives in petrol these days, so it just reeks far more than it used to.  So on older cars that don't have charcoal canisters and otherwise sealed vapour purge systems, sometimes you're just going to get a bit of a smell.  The question of "how much is too much" though is really hard to diagnose remotely!

[Missy Charm]

On 05/06/2024 at 15:54, Peter C said:

I’ve done about 40 miles in the Sierra today, mostly back roads and a short stint on the M40.

The rogue hose is not causing any issues.

As for the gear change, I am pretty sure that the movement between gears is smoother and I got 3rd gear every time without baulking but overall the movement still feels very mechanical. Now, this might be the way Type 9 gearboxes operate and there’s nothing for me to worry about. Or the ‘box is simply showing its age.

It's many moons since I've driven one, but I do seem to remember the five-speed, rear-wheel-drive Fords as being a bit on the mechanical side when it came to gearchange feel.  Cortinas were the same, I think.  It was considered a good thing, back when people were bothered about that sort of stuff - Fords always drove right and had a decent gearchange.  

I wouldn't have said the Sierra 'box was that different from contemporary rear-drive stuff, such as Volvos, either.  Ordinary gearboxes of that era seem to fall into two camps: 'clunky' and 'vague'.  The former is preferable...  

[stuboy]

i found the sierra had the best driving position

[High Jetter]

8 hours ago, Peter C said:

small commercial vehicle.

Ser 1 Acty, looks ace.

[fatharris]

On 05/06/2024 at 22:01, Peter C said:

I’ve joined a Ford Sierra Facebook group and I’ve just exchanged messages with one of the Sierra’s previous owners!

Good stuff! Anything of note?

[MantaGTE85]

15 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

some car just do waft occasionally- my dad had a "L" reg micra that did

I had a turquoise M reg Micra 'Mauritius' that also hummed of jungle juice. We found nothing wrong with it. Must be a K11 thing. It was a nice little work tool, other than that. Very nippy little fuel-injected 16 Valve 1.0 unit. Far quicker than any Metro or Mini.

[beko1987]

4 hours ago, fatharris said:

Good stuff! Anything of note?

"fuck me that things still on the road? 😱😱 Last time I saw it was halfway through the wall I just put it through..." 

 

Hopefully not, you'd have noticed that by now 🤞

[Peter C]

On 07/06/2024 at 07:44, fatharris said:

Good stuff! Anything of note?

I messaged the guy and he sent me a long voicemail message. 

The highlights are:

He is the owner of Smarden Classic/  RS Revived garage based in Ashford, who specialise in Ford RS / Cosworths. He has a large presence on Facebook and some of his motors look amazing. 

Approx 3-4 years ago, he bought the car from a local chap, who previously also bought the Sierra from another local old boy, who apparently had it for a long time and kept it in a garage. Seems the Sierra had spent most of its life in Ashford, Kent and if the old boy had it for long and kept it garaged, that would explain the overall decent condition and low mileage. 

He is aware that the Sierra was off the road for a long time (September 2015 - June 2021).

He liked the Sierra, said it was totally solid, just had the rear parts of the sills welded, hence he bought it.

He had it for 1-2 months.

He cleaned it up and gave it a service.

He sold it to a man in Scotland, a Robert Kelby, who added it to his collection, however he was told Robert promptly sold the Sierra to a man in Northern Ireland, who is probably the guy from whom I bought the Sierra. This explains why the last MoT was done in Glasgow.

He doesn't have any paperwork for it and recalls that there wasn't much when he bought it. 

He will dig out some old photos of when he bought it and will send them to me. Upon receipt, I will share them with you.

So, nothing amazing but I'm pleased that my Sierra has been through the hands of people who appreciate old Fords and kept it alive for all these years. 

 

 

[Peter C]

The Haynes manual that I bought at Beulieu for £3 has come in very handy. The section on the fuel system provides an explanation of how the Pierburg carburettor works and contains a useful cutaway diagram of the entire carburettor and choke mechanism. I had a read through and felt confident enough to have a go at looking inside the carburettor.

This is me giving the impression that I know what I am doing.

I had a look inside the accelerator pump mechanism and the diaphragm is intact. I had a look inside the power valve assembly, all looked ok.

I removed the top cover.

Inside the float chamber, there was some residue which I cleaned out, otherwise all good. The float is not full of fuel and moves freely. According to the Haynes manual, the float level is not adjustable. 

A small piece of gasket was damaged so I put a tiny bit of gasket sealant on to seal the joint.

In the photo below, by looking into the opening within the red circle, I can see fuel inside the float chamber. The Haynes manual doesn't say anything about this opening and whether this is a ventilation hole. I suppose the float chamber would need one? If not, fuel vapour would definitely escape from this opening and into the air filter housing. Could this be the source of the fuel smell?

Also in the photo below, the valve located at the top of the primary venturi, with blue arrow pointing to it, does not appear to be connected to anything, it moves freely. Not sure why. The throttle valve is located lower within the venturi. I presume that the orange pipe next to it delivers fuel? If so, if the limp valve was set at a wrong angle, fuel would be diverted away from the venturi and over the side of the carburettor. 

Also in the photo below, the secondary throttle valve, with red arrow pointing to it, does not move, with the engine running and with the throttle wide open. According to the Haynes manual, the secondary valve is operated by a vacuum and I suppose that insufficient vacuum is generated whilst the engine is being revved but not under any load.

I reassembled the carburettor and adjusted the ignition timing. 

First, I marked the base of the distributor and the engine block with a couple of blobs of red paint, which denoted the original position of the distributor.

I advanced the ignition timing by rotating the distributor a few degrees and took the Sierra for a test drive. The engine felt more responsive under load but under heavy load, I could hear pinking (pre-ignition). I retarded the ignition to approx half way where it was originally and there was no more pinking. The engine still feels more responsive and pulls nicely through the gears. Being an old two valves per cylinder design, there is nothing to be gained by red lining it, instead I just enjoy the sufficient torque. 

After the test drive, I lifted the bonnet and I could smell fuel. The smell is not overwhelming but it's there. I have now run out of ideas.

 

 

 

[Peter C]

You know you've married a goodun when she comes home with photographs of a ratty old Sierra that she spotted in a supermarket car park.

D reg, same as my Sapphire but it's the last of the Mk1s. Nice. 

I enjoy listening to music, especially whilst driving. Hitherto, I've been using a Bluetooth speaker for entertainment. 

Not an ideal solution.

The original Ford radio cassette player looks great but the FM reception down here in The Chilterns is rubbish and I have no way of connecting the unit with my iPhone. 

I love the Sierra's dashboard and I didn't want to change the stock appearance.

So I decided to fit one of these Bluetooth amps, which I wanted to hook up to the original speakers.

Turns out this unit does not have Bluetooth connectivity, despite being the first result of my Amazon search for a Bluetooth car amplifier. 

I decided that I'd rather replace the original head unit with a Kenwood one that I have, which has Bluetooth etc. 

Fitting the new head unit was easy. I used old plugs from my collection of bits so that the original Ford wiring and plugs were left undisturbed.

Once up and running, I discovered that the front door speakers were totally shot.

Upon removal, it was obvious what was wrong. The cone supports have rotted away a long time ago. 

I needed replacements, however as the speakers are visible behind the cover grilles, I didn't want some orange coloured co-axials. 

I opted for a pair of black JVC dual cones.

With a little fettling, they fit nicely into the original mounting brackets.

Before you ask, the magnets are small and will not interfere with the window glass. For some reason, the old Ford speakers have massive magnets. 

The tweeters located within the lower part of the dashboard seem to work ok, so they can stay.

The speakers located on the back shelf are also working ok and will be staying for now.

The Kenwood head unit has a built in crossover, which allows me to prevent low tones from passing through to the speakers. The plan is to set the crossover so that the six speakers inside the cabin only produce mid and high tones.

What about the bass, you say?

I have this lying around in my garage, gathering dust.

It's a Vibe 12 inch sub with a built in amplifier. I had it installed in my E46 before I upgraded it to a Sony / JBL combo. Ok, it's only a Vibe but it performs well enough and will improve the sound no end.

I bought a proper fitting kit. Plan is to get everything installed on Saturday.

I adopted an all or nothing approach.

If I left the head unit and speakers as they were, they looked lovely but served no purpose. The only externally visible change to the ICE will be the head unit, which at first I thought about fitting inside the glovebox whilst leaving the dashboard looking stock but that's too much hassle. Once fitted, the system should sound pretty good and the total cost is just over £40, which is what the new speakers and wiring kit cost me. If need be, the old head unit can be reinstated and the sub removed in a matter of minutes. 

More soon.

 

[Missy Charm]

On 08/06/2024 at 16:16, Peter C said:

TIn the photo below, by looking into the opening within the red circle, I can see fuel inside the float chamber. The Haynes manual doesn't say anything about this opening and whether this is a ventilation hole. I suppose the float chamber would need one? If not, fuel vapour would definitely escape from this opening and into the air filter housing. Could this be the source of the fuel smell?

Also in the photo below, the valve located at the top of the primary venturi, with blue arrow pointing to it, does not appear to be connected to anything, it moves freely. Not sure why. The throttle valve is located lower within the venturi. I presume that the orange pipe next to it delivers fuel? If so, if the limp valve was set at a wrong angle, fuel would be diverted away from the venturi and over the side of the carburettor. 

Also in the photo below, the secondary throttle valve, with red arrow pointing to it, does not move, with the engine running and with the throttle wide open. According to the Haynes manual, the secondary valve is operated by a vacuum and I suppose that insufficient vacuum is generated whilst the engine is being revved but not under any load.

 

 

 

A few things:  the plate indicated by the blue arrow is the choke flap (strangler) and should (it's a long time since I've had a car with a carburettor, so correct if wrong) move freely.  The auto-choke control will hold it closed when operating, usually by means of pushing a retractable rod into contact with the choke flap.  When the auto-choke isn't doing anything, the rod is withdrawn and the flap moves freely.  

The 'orange pipe' is the float chamber breather, apparently, and it doesn't deliver fuel.  Its purpose is to allow vapour to escape from the float chamber whilst remaining in the carburettor body.  One assumes said vapour is directed at the primary choke so that it is sucked into the engine and burnt under normal running.  I suppose it's possible that a breach in the breather tube could be allowing vapour to escape and cause a smell.  

Vacuum actuated secondary chokes don't do a lot unless under load, which doesn't happen when revving in neutral.  

Incidentally, the swan-neck pipe above the secondary choke does spray fuel into the carb at full load.  Could that be another place to look?*

*here endeth everything I know about carburettors, other than to say that this type was also used in various VWs.  There's potentially lots more information available online if you look under VW rather than Ford Sierra.  

[Peter C]

10 minutes ago, Missy Charm said:

A few things:  the plate indicated by the blue arrow is the choke flap (strangler) and should (it's a long time since I've had a car with a carburettor, so correct if wrong) move freely.  The auto-choke control will hold it closed when operating, usually by means of pushing a retractable rod into contact with the choke flap.  When the auto-choke isn't doing anything, the rod is withdrawn and the flap moves freely.  

The 'orange pipe' is the float chamber breather, apparently, and it doesn't deliver fuel.  Its purpose is to allow vapour to escape from the float chamber whilst remaining in the carburettor body.  One assumes said vapour is directed at the primary choke so that it is sucked into the engine and burnt under normal running.  I suppose it's possible that a breach in the breather tube could be allowing vapour to escape and cause a smell.  

Vacuum actuated secondary chokes don't do a lot unless under load, which doesn't happen when revving in neutral.  

Incidentally, the swan-neck pipe above the secondary choke does spray fuel into the carb at full load.  Could that be another place to look?*

*here endeth everything I know about carburettors, other than to say that this type was also used in various VWs.  There's potentially lots more information available online if you look under VW rather than Ford Sierra.  

Thank you, that’s very useful.

[Peter C]

I had an unforeseen opportunity to tinker with the Sierra today.

I removed one of the rear speakers, to see how easy it would be to replace it.

Turns out, to remove the speaker, the cover mesh would first require removal. I tried, it's stuck like shit to a blanket. 

Fortunately, the rear speakers are intact and sound ok.

The new front speakers and original mounting brackets fitted just fine.

I removed the back seat to enable me to pass cables from the cabin into the boot.

In amongst a bit of rubbish, I found the Sierra's OBD port.

The +12V supply cable extends all the way to the battery. Fortunately, the cable is tucked away by the bulkhead, not overly visible.

Very much work in progress but the head unit, all speakers and the amp/sub are all wired up and working.

With the crossover set to 180Hz, the speakers are receiving high mid and high tones. The crossover on the sub amp is set to provide low mid and low tones.

The sound quality is absolutely fine. Definitely not sound-off competition quality or volume but the new / old 4 inch speakers and tweeters are not overworked and the sub is more than man enough to push ample quantities of bass into the cabin. Fortunately, in the Sierra, the boot space and the cabin are only separated by a thin hardboard panel and a backrest, which is made up of thin foam and some fabric. 

On Saturday, I will tidy up the wiring and re-fix the trim.

 

[grogee]

16 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I had an unforeseen opportunity to tinker with the Sierra today.

I removed one of the rear speakers, to see how easy it would be to replace it.

Turns out, to remove the speaker, the cover mesh would first require removal. I tried, it's stuck like shit to a blanket. 

Fortunately, the rear speakers are intact and sound ok.

The new front speakers and original mounting brackets fitted just fine.

I removed the back seat to enable me to pass cables from the cabin into the boot.

In amongst a bit of rubbish, I found the Sierra's OBD port.

The +12V supply cable extends all the way to the battery. Fortunately, the cable is tucked away by the bulkhead, not overly visible.

Very much work in progress but the head unit, all speakers and the amp/sub are all wired up and working.

With the crossover set to 180Hz, the speakers are receiving high mid and high tones. The crossover on the sub amp is set to provide low mid and low tones.

The sound quality is absolutely fine. Definitely not sound-off competition quality or volume but the new / old 4 inch speakers and tweeters are not overworked and the sub is more than man enough to push ample quantities of bass into the cabin. Fortunately, in the Sierra, the boot space and the cabin are only separated by a thin hardboard panel and a backrest, which is made up of thin foam and some fabric. 

On Saturday, I will tidy up the wiring and re-fix the trim.

 

I am glad I'm not the only one who insists on TUNEZ in their shite classic. Good work, that Edge sub will piss off the rivet counter Ford bores. 

My Maestro is hampered by an overly loud exhaust. How is it inside the Sierra, presumably quite quiet? 

[Peter C]

9 minutes ago, grogee said:

I am glad I'm not the only one who insists on TUNEZ in their shite classic. Good work, that Edge sub will piss off the rivet counter Ford bores. 

My Maestro is hampered by an overly loud exhaust. How is it inside the Sierra, presumably quite quiet? 

I like the look of original ICE but when it's knackered and works only as an ornament, I have no qualms about upgrading it. Four 4 inch speakers are never going to produce enough bass (I like a bit of old dub, reggae, dance) so installing the sub seems like a good idea. I've already got it, it won't go into any of my other cars so why not. 

The Sierra is very comfortable and quiet inside. Nice ICE will jus make the journeys more fun.

[Ghosty]

I did a similar thing with my Civic. It already had Alpine door speakers (but that's it), and a Kenwood head unit to replace the knackered original National Panasonic. Not enough bass from two 5" door speakers... When I sold the Cavalier I kept the active sub and stuck it in the Civic's boot, I had no qualms at all as there's already a strut brace in there, so it's not like a compromise on useable space.

[bigfella2]

Nice work, but it really needs a fuse between the battery terminal and the power cable. I would hate to see all your hard work go up in flames.

[Peter C]

21 minutes ago, bigfella2 said:

Nice work, but it really needs a fuse between the battery terminal and the power cable. I would hate to see all your hard work go up in flames.

Got a proper one with the fitting kit, will be fitted on Saturday.

[beko1987]

I let Eva hook her phone up to the car the other day and she played some alright bangers (seems the music I remember being shit hot and brand new is now on its 5th or 6th remix...) 

3 of my speakers reminded me their blown out and I remembered my Puma with its sub taking up half the boot and excellent speaker setup (with some cutting you can widen the 5x7 or whatever the oem back speaker size is to 6x9 and all the trim goes back in place 👌) 

It's tempting... My boot sits empty 92% of the time anyway... 😂 And my hearing is already fucked so no worries there (I partly blame said puma for that...) 

[Peter C]

I completed the installation of the ICE.

Proper fuse installed. @bigfella2

I secured the fuse to the inner wing, making use of an existing hole, which is in keeping with the fully reversible theme of this installation. 

Putting the two screws back into place to secure the rear seat squab turned out to be a two man job. Well, one man and his flexible wife.

The replacement speakers look inconspicuous behind the door grilles, just as I wanted.

The sub / amp box is happy and there is still plenty of boot space, not that I propose to carry any luggage.

The sub / amp is an Edge unit, not Vibe, as I previously advised. For a budget brand, it sounds great and I don't need anything bigger or louder. 

All done, the head unit doesn't look overly offensive. The sound quality is infinitely better and the FM radio reception is brilliant compared to the Ford head unit. 

Win.

 

[grogee]

30 minutes ago, Peter C said:

I completed the installation of the ICE.

Proper fuse installed. @bigfella2

I secured the fuse to the inner wing, making use of an existing hole, which is in keeping with the fully reversible theme of this installation. 

Putting the two screws back into place to secure the rear seat squab turned out to be a two man job. Well, one man and his flexible wife.

The replacement speakers look inconspicuous behind the door grilles, just as I wanted.

The sub / amp box is happy and there is still plenty of boot space, not that I propose to carry any luggage.

The sub / amp is an Edge unit, not Vibe, as I previously advised. For a budget brand, it sounds great and I don't need anything bigger or louder. 

All done, the head unit doesn't look overly offensive. The sound quality is infinitely better and the FM radio reception is brilliant compared to the Ford head unit. 

Win.

 

Does the install render the fader/balance joystick redundant? 

Isn't that a perk of L trim? 

(Yes I know none of this matters) 

[Peter C]

37 minutes ago, grogee said:

Does the install render the fader/balance joystick redundant? 

Isn't that a perk of L trim? 

(Yes I know none of this matters) 

The joystick is still connected and functional but that comes with a problem, I think.

The rear speakers produce a deeper and warmer sound, whilst the fronts sound clearer. I’m not sure whether this is down to the speaker specifications or some form of capacitor / crossover that forms part of the joystick assembly.

I’ve read somewhere that bypassing the joystick improves sound quality. I will investigate tomorrow.

[grogee]

1 hour ago, Peter C said:

The joystick is still connected and functional but that comes with a problem, I think.

The rear speakers produce a deeper and warmer sound, whilst the fronts sound clearer. I’m not sure whether this is down to the speaker specifications or some form of capacitor / crossover that forms part of the joystick assembly.

I’ve read somewhere that bypassing the joystick improves sound quality. I will investigate tomorrow.

Mine usually sound more muffled at the back in all my cars just because they're behind the front seats. 

It's probably a good idea to bypass the joystick though, I'd imagine there's some wheezy 1980s proprietary Ford electronics in there. 

Re: wife refitting seat - I need to upgrade my wife. 

[bigfella2]

Just be careful with the bit of wire rubbing on the suspension tower as between that and the battery it isn't fused. Some corrugated conduit would add more protection.

[egg]

I'm surprised the 'L' did get the joystick - pretty generous by Ford standards. Bet the base didn't.

[RoadworkUK]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm surprised the 'L' did get the joystick - pretty generous by Ford standards. Bet the base didn't.

Base only had front speakers. Earliest Base Sierras had a single front speaker mounted in the centre of the top dash surface.

[Peter C]

20 minutes ago, RoadworkUK said:

Earliest Base Sierras had a single front speaker mounted in the centre of the top dash surface.

Wow!

I’d love to see a photo of that dash.