Burning Vegatables. Running SVO/WVO in 2024

[juular]

 My setup is less complex but also significantly slower and less gooder than @Talbot's gold standard filtration.

When I get unfiltered bottles of oil the first thing I do is leave them outside for about a month to settle. In the winter I add 10-15% petrol first and give them a good shake to mix it in, which helps both the settling process and cold weather running.

After this period of time you can clearly see the layers form in the bottle as the water and solids settle to the bottom. In a sense the oil is now partially passively filtered.

I then pump the top 80% of the bottle straight into the car through a series of filters.

In the bottle is a mesh inline filter that attaches to 10mm clear hose. I put a clip on the hose so that it sits at the right level in the bottle to avoid the water and solids at the bottom.

I use an electric fuel pump attached to a battery which then pushes the oil through a paper inline carburettor filter and then a 5 micron diesel filter.

The remaining 20% of the oil goes into a bottle reserved for dregs. Eventually that bottle settles too and can be used.

It's quite effective and the filters don't block frequently as the settling process has removed most of the crud.

Generally only the paper filter gets bits in it. I simply take it off and backflush it with a bit of petrol in a syringe. Or replace it, they are very cheap. The final diesel filter doesn't really block and I have used one for many hundreds of litres.

The advantage I find from this setup is you don't need any permanent installation or any intermediate processing and storage. It's also portable and relatively cheap. It's a good thing if you aren't 100% committed to the lifestyle and can't make space for it.

The downside is that it simply isn't as thorough as doing it properly like Talbot does.

In the real world it meant that I had to change fuel filters on the car more regularly with an associated time and money cost. Typically I'd change the filter every 3000-4000 miles.

The other downside is time to refuel. Instead of just tipping a bottle into the car, you have to wait around 10 minutes to refuel about 20 litres. At least you can walk away and leave it completely unsupervised.

I did also make alterations to the 205 I was using.

Firstly I upsized all of the fuel lines from 8mm to 10mm to try to make it easier on the pump to lift the thick fuel. 

 I fitted a fuel-coolant heat exchanger from some VAGshite. This makes the warm-up time significantly shorter in cold weather and helps prevent any kangarooing when the engine is cold.

I then replaced the standard plastic XUD fuel filter housing with a filter for a Rover L series diesel. The XUD housing is prone to leaks and with veg is known to suck air into the fuel lines. The L filters are simpler, cheaper and easier to change on the go.

Last modification was to significantly advance the injection pump. And of course wind in the fuel screw for maximum lolz.

I enjoyed #veglyf and hope to return to it when I get the BX on the go.

[Scruffy Bodger]

2 hours ago, Talbot said:

This is very true.  Good quality biodiesel is ok in common rail direct-injection engines, but as soon as you add in DPF systems or NoX reduction with adblue, it all starts to go a bit wrong.  Mechanical IDI engines are the holy grail of veg combustion, even if modified into biodiesel.

Have you tried yours on contaminated hydraulic oil?

[Sunny Jim]

2 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

one thing I have always wondered about with regards to veg, is how compatible are big diesel vehicles to it, has anyone ever run a Routemaster or something such on Veg for example?

Back in the 90's I used to run a 6 cylinder, 6 litre Dodge 50 on E-diesel, a manufactured biodiesel. The retired Shell engineer who made it also converted a Volvo FL6 which belonged to an abattoir to run on beef dripping!

[Talbot]

16 minutes ago, Scruffy Bodger said:

Have you tried yours on contaminated hydraulic oil?

I've run some waste engine oil through at the same time as veg, which made absolutely no difference at all.  Same with used atf.  If I had a source of hydraulic oil, I'd probably try some.

[Lacquer Peel]

Used hydraulic oil is an excellent alternative fuel. 

When I've mixed waste engine oil and veg it has turned to jelly.

[Scruffy Bodger]

6 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Used hydraulic oil is an excellent alternative fuel. 

When I've mixed waste engine oil and veg it has turned to jelly.

Ime and Dodgy Tom's you just can't get greedy with too much engine oil, they don't like it, also got to consider what type of oil it is, mineral oil yes, synthetic, no.

Some firms that service equipment have to get rid of hydraulic oil in bulk and pay for it. A mate found just that sort of firm years back and did many thousands of miles in a ZX running on something that resembled custard. The first time I saw the stuff was on a beach in Wales and thought that's that then we are going to be walking home. It turned out we'd already got all the way there on it and I couldn't tell!

It fucking stinks of sulphur if you're following tho! In the end he had his supply limited as he was putting so much thru the car the bloke was worried he'd get questioned about his waste as he was barely putting any thru his books.

[Lacquer Peel]

The hydraulic oil I got was from dockyard cranes, super clean, much like new hydraulic oil. 

[Scruffy Bodger]

7 minutes ago, Lacquer Peel said:

The hydraulic oil I got was from dockyard cranes, super clean, much like new hydraulic oil. 

Lucky you, that sounds absolutely ideal! The custard was from machinery that had been out in the Far East and had a hard life iirc?

[Lacquer Peel]

The custard sounds like emulsion from water contamination.

[Talbot]

The filters I use do take quite a fair while to filter oil.  It comes out lovely and optically clear, but really slowly!

[DeanH]

2 minutes ago, Talbot said:

The filters I use do take quite a fair while to filter oil.  It comes out lovely and optically clear, but really slowly!

https://vimeo.com/900388793

Video is set to private I think?

[Talbot]

Fixerated.

[Talbot]

3 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

When I've mixed waste engine oil and veg it has turned to jelly.

I think having 20% diesel or kerosene (off road only obvs) will prevent this.  I'm not sure, but I've never actually achieved mineral-veg gumming.

[Scruffy Bodger]

3 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

The custard sounds like emulsion from water contamination.

Yep, exactly that.

[DodgeRover]

7 hours ago, Talbot said:

I think having 20% diesel or kerosene (off road only obvs) will prevent this.  I'm not sure, but I've never actually achieved mineral-veg gumming.

Somewhere there is a memo from HMRC stating small percentage of kero are permissible as a helper fuel or additive 

[Floatylight]

14 hours ago, chaseracer said:

@Floatylight 

Steve, didn't you run your red 306 on bio?

It was the same 306, P514OLN I ran it on bio on and off, but I bought a bad tankful from someone at Buxton's on the A34 which seems to had animal fats in it that left a coating on the inside of the tank and blocked the filters.  Sorted it all out (which took ages) next drive out someone drove into the back of it and wrote it off.. the scrapman clocked it from 285k to 70k and sold it on and it lived for another couple of years so bio defo didn't do it any harm..

 

[Minimad5]

Some top information in this thread.

Never ran anything on Veg, but it's certainly a interesting idea.

What's the permitted volume of usage before you 'have to' tell authority?

[Talbot]

2500 litres per annum per person.

However, like all good UK legislation, there is no requirement in law to keep any kind of record of how much veg you have "converted" into fuel or indeed used.

I also love the fact that this deminimus rule came about because so many people were registering as an alternative fuel provider and paying their 40-ish pence-per-litre of duty on their veg that HMRC were overloaded with paperwork and they decided it was less expensive to just allow individuals to have an annual allowance.

2500l even in something as thirsty as the E300 still gives me about 18k miles on neat and probably nearer 25000 miles with the diesel blend I use, so it's very unlikely that an individual will even come close to that limit.

[Talbot]

24 minutes ago, DodgeRover said:

Somewhere there is a memo from HMRC stating small percentage of kero are permissible as a helper fuel or additive 

This is very interesting/handy to know.  May have to hunt that down, as a bit of Kero in veg does make a big difference to cold viscosity and also cold starting capability.

[Lacquer Peel]

8 hours ago, DodgeRover said:

Somewhere there is a memo from HMRC stating small percentage of kero are permissible as a helper fuel or additive 

Is that because it helps to winterise diesel fuel?

[DodgeRover]

10 hours ago, Lacquer Peel said:

Is that because it helps to winterise diesel fuel?

Yes and it's also the main contents of injector cleaning additives 

[Talbot]

Bumhats.  It's a bit cold!

Oil in larger containers hasn't waxed as it's a big thermal mass.  The little bits in the filters, however....

The irony of needing a diesel heater in the garage to heat up the oil being used instead of diesel fuel.😡

Have just left it to blat another 18L through overnight, so it'll be interesting to see in the morning if the whole thing is a big chunk of wax, or if the liquid from the header tank has melted the waxing in the filters.  Certainly hope so, I need a fair bit of veg this weekend.

[castros_bro]

DVLA was processing my application for lower VAD for running "renewable fuel" when the cam belt broke and destroyed the veg Renault ability to move.

[Nullzwei]

8 minutes ago, castros_bro said:

DVLA was processing my application for lower VAD for running "renewable fuel" when the cam belt broke and destroyed the veg Renault ability to move.

You can apply for lower road tax if you are using veg oil as a fuel?

[SunnySouth]

On 07/01/2024 at 00:09, Talbot said:

2500 litres per annum per person.

However, like all good UK legislation, there is no requirement in law to keep any kind of record of how much veg you have "converted" into fuel or indeed used.

I also love the fact that this deminimus rule came about because so many people were registering as an alternative fuel provider and paying their 40-ish pence-per-litre of duty on their veg that HMRC were overloaded with paperwork and they decided it was less expensive to just allow individuals to have an annual allowance.

2500l even in something as thirsty as the E300 still gives me about 18k miles on neat and probably nearer 25000 miles with the diesel blend I use, so it's very unlikely that an individual will even come close to that limit.

Is it not the case though that the HMRC get all bastardy and make lots of very expensive assumptions about how many miles you’ve done/how much you’ve used unless you can produce a load of fuel receipts to evidence otherwise? Or was that only if they caught you doing red? 🤔

[SunnySouth]

46 minutes ago, castros_bro said:

DVLA was processing my application for lower VAD for running "renewable fuel" when the cam belt broke and destroyed the veg Renault ability to move.

On the plus side that means it cost you even less in road tax?!

[Talbot]

16 minutes ago, SunnySouth said:

Is it not the case though that the HMRC get all bastardy and make lots of very expensive assumptions about how many miles you’ve done/how much you’ve used unless you can produce a load of fuel receipts to evidence otherwise? Or was that only if they caught you doing red? 🤔

That was if you were caught on Red.  They'd assume you've been running 20k miles a year since you bought the vehicle and tax you accordingly.  Same was true before the deminimus rule was introduced for veg, but now they basically ignore it.  So few people have a car that can run veg now that it's not really an issue anymore.

[rattlecan]

Really interesting read this. I have a good mate who has done it for years. He has a couple of old diesel Vauxhall Cav's that he runs & in a forward thinking kind of way, bought about 6 more shite things as donor cars so he could keep the 2 'good' ones running

[jim89]

On 02/01/2024 at 23:46, Talbot said:

.It's not running in the photo (hence the reduced oil levels) but going left-to-right, that's a 50um, then a 5um and finally a 1um filter.  

May I ask where you get your filter elements please? 

[Talbot]

7 hours ago, jim89 said:

May I ask where you get your filter elements please? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/aqfilters

or direct from them.  They're a standard 10" (now 250mm) filter element, which can be bought in all manner of types and styles from a string-wound debris filter to a ceramic block filter which is so fine it will filter viruses.  Almost all water filtration is done with these.