F1 drivers Rover 620i / racing at 24h of lemons

[chaseracer]

6 hours ago, juular said:

Can't think which racing series Mr @juular might have used this method before! 😆

[motorpunk]

Car almost ready. I mean, it’s shit and fucked, but it’s good enough to send to America. We have a team of 4 drivers and 1 mechanic. We could do with extra hands. If anyone fancies spending ££££££££ to travel to America to try and fix a broken Rover using only a Swiss Army knife and litter while drunken rednecks look on, then sign up as a team member here; _____________*
 

* I consent to many deeply unusual things being done to me.

[motorpunk]

Right. Now desperate for some help. A week on Friday a boat sails to America and this Rover must be on it. I think @worldofceri is not longer a transport chap. Is there anyone who can trailer this MOT unworthy heap from Mansfield to Southampton for us? Can pay ££££ HELP!

[robt100]

@motorpunk I used Tez (Not a fellow 'shiter AFAIK, but link below) to transport my XJR back from the garage after an MOT faliure on brakes. Did a good job at short notice, reckon he might be interested in this as its something a bit different, good news is, he may even buy it off you for scrap/autocross afterward🤣
Based in Retford so not too far to get over to Mansfield.

https://www.facebook.com/people/Tez-Phillips/pfbid0271SFFG67fhpK8wLaVrcRn74B9UW4zR6uDgLyPpCYT72Ew4ipnrSvLJg2NfgqVCsVl/

[motorpunk]

Think we have transport sorted. New discs and hubs and wheels …. Man those nuts look dodgy…

[St.Jude]

Bit of loctite and she’ll be right 👌

[Rod/b]

Did the new hubs have shorter studs fitted or something??

[motorpunk]

2 hours ago, Rod/b said:

Did the new hubs have shorter studs fitted or something??

We don’t think so. There’s a suspicion that the new discs aren’t fully pressed against the hub. According to the chief spannerman it drives, and forgive me for the forthright language, “like fucking shit”. We have a super tight deadline to there’s someone looking at it today, because it needs to be in a container to America not in a yard in Sutton-in-Ashfield.

[Rod/b]

Has he fitted the drive flange inside the disc instead of over it?

 

edit - that’s explain why there’s no spigot for the wheel to sit on too, no wonder it drives shit.

[Rod/b]

This has been bugging me.

You can see in this still from your video when you were stripping the brakes, that the drive flange / hub / whatever you want to call it bolts to the outside of the disc, then the whole lot goes on the drive shaft. 

I think what you’ve done is bolt the drive flange onto the drive shaft then fitted the disc over it like a normal hub. 
 

You mentioned somewhere having to shim the caliper i think? Probably on account of the disc being way outboard from where it ought to be. 

[Rust Collector]

18 minutes ago, Rod/b said:

This has been bugging me.

You can see in this still from your video when you were stripping the brakes, that the drive flange / hub / whatever you want to call it bolts to the outside of the disc, then the whole lot goes on the drive shaft. 

I think what you’ve done is bolt the drive flange onto the drive shaft then fitted the disc over it like a normal hub. 
 

You mentioned somewhere having to shim the caliper i think? Probably on account of the disc being way outboard from where it ought to be. 

^^^ Wot he Sed

I think these Rovers have some weird hub over disc setup, here’s someone else’s photo that I’ve stolen from the internet:

It looks like your disc is fitted incorrectly.

[motorpunk]

[Conan]

On 29/06/2024 at 16:23, motorpunk said:

 

Could it be that the wheel studs are simply too short? There's not much thread on there at all. Even the rear studs looks to have much longer thread. Hondas do have various stud length option apparently. 36 and 42mm thread length from quick google-fu.

I wouldn't hold out much hope for the front wheels staying on in the current state, especially on track. But longer stud is not a difficult fix if it is indeed the issue.

[motorpunk]

I think we know what’s happened, and apart from stud length it’s (possibly) OK. Thanks. Am still confused but my job is driving, bribing judges and skids.

[Rod/b]

What do you thinks happened? I’m intrigued.

[St.Jude]

I see the plan.

Get to the start line, wheels fall off going in to the first corner, take out half the field. Car is beyond repair, go and have a nice sleep, wake up for the trophy ceremony.

[motorpunk]

2 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

@motorpunkCan you go through it with us in detail please?  It really doesn't look safe to drive anywhere as it is.  Genuinely concerned.  

Thanks, I don’t have all details as quite a bit was done without my being present, also, I’m a bit slapdash. I think that stud length aside, we’re ok. That’s what the grown ups say. Thanks for your concern 👍🏼

[Rod/b]

Why isn’t the hub spigot protruding through the disc to locate the wheel though? 

[Christine]

Tyres are a bit old for racing speeds man .. 2011? .

[St.Jude]

5 minutes ago, Christine said:

Tyres are a bit old for racing speeds man .. 2011? .

They get given tyres when they're in Amerikay.

[Christine]

Tires

[Conan]

1 hour ago, Mr Pastry said:

You can fit longer studs, but there is more to it than that.  What is the disc locating against?  Is there  some sort of spacer between the disc and the hub?  Even if there is, the disc is apparently just resting on the studs.  Is that how it is designed?  What are the four empty holes in the disc for?   Are they bolt holes?

Even if all that is OK, the wheel plane has moved outboard significantly, which will alter the scrub radius - quite critical on some types of suspension and probably why it feels like shit to drive.   It may handle very badly at high speeds.  As in, not go around corners.

Admittedly I don't know the detail design and I haven't followed the whole story.   But on the basis of those pictures I'd put it back to standard, maybe with  harder brake pads, and leave it at that.  The designers probably knew what they were doing and tested it properly, and it has a good safety margin if not messed around with.

Just saying, but I'm wasting my time.

 

I'm probably also wasting my time thinking/guessing about this without being there on site. I don't know enough about this supposed conversion/bodge, and definitely not knowledgeable enough about brake conversion.

If I'm understanding correctly, the brake conversion is using MK1 Focus RS disc on Peugeot 406 caliper.

I'm comparing the hub between the Mk1 Focus RS and the generic Honda/Acura CL. It seemed that the flange for the Honda is shallower than the Focus, which would make sense that the flange would not poke out of the disc center bore. OR the disc is pressing against the wider part of the flange so it's not seated flat.

The best case scenario is that it is seated enough and it drives fine, the worse scenario would be the car vibrating a lot at speed because the hub isn't seated with the flange, the worst case would be the wheel falls off immediately as it gets up to speed. Which is kinda on brand for 24 Hours of Lemons anyway, the bodge in this series is something else.

I also wouldn't take in too much the "drives like shit" comment, as I was not there in the car at the time. Could be anything really and did the car even got up to speed for any quirks to be apparent? This I do not know at all either.

From experience, however, I personally would not care too much about scrub radius, as it's a few mm change at best. Many Honda Accords with the same suspension type are running weird wheel offset screwing up the scrub radius way more than this without ending up in the hedge.

Whatever the outcome may be, front wheels fall off, car spinning out of control, engine blowing up 10 minutes into the stint, or it taking the chequered flag. The race recap is gonna be entertaining as hell.

[Conan]

Which is why the Lemons series required FIA cage, every single top level safety gear imaginable, and very intensive tech inspection. The car might be shit jank, but they won't be allowing it to run if they don't deem it safe. It is the US after all.

[motorpunk]

6 hours ago, St.Jude said:

They get given tyres when they're in Amerikay.

Yup. We have brand new rubber from a reputable brand. The pics above are some time behind the build. 

[motorpunk]

4 hours ago, Conan said:

Which is why the Lemons series required FIA cage, every single top level safety gear imaginable, and very intensive tech inspection. The car might be shit jank, but they won't be allowing it to run if they don't deem it safe. It is the US after all.

Exactly this. Scrutineering is really tough, and rightly so. 

[motorpunk]

4 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

Until someone gets injured or killed.

Pastry, I appreciate you mean well, but leave this out will you, please? It’s boring.

[motorpunk]

5 hours ago, Conan said:

Whatever the outcome may be, front wheels fall off, car spinning out of control, engine blowing up 10 minutes into the stint, or it taking the chequered flag. The race recap is gonna be entertaining as hell.

It is. I would see it as a success if we get the car there, pass scrutineering, and manage just one lap. That’s all.  We can explode into pieces after that and I won’t care. The work and admin and expenditure and aggro of getting this car to the track has been a bit of a bugger. I can’t wait.

[motorpunk]

Update

[wesacosa]

2 hours ago, motorpunk said:

Update

Cool. I'm sure Slim would be flattered 

[motorpunk]

Anyone care to guess how many of the original 130 horses remain in the stable?