2003 Mercedes-Benz E320 Estate - Sold and last drive

[N Dentressangle]

Surprised that didn't fail.

Agreed, I'd get that replaced as long as the rest of the car's worth it.

[Rust Collector]

2 hours ago, SiC said:

I could but going by the MOT history, that's been happening for a while! I'm going to see if I can have a chat with the tester and see what they think it's like on the underside - mostly rust wise. If generally good then I'll spend out.

Tyres aren't pretty. 

Brake pipes really aren't either. This is front offside and I can't imagine the others are much better. Of course being Mercedes, you need a scantool capable of bleeding the SBC. 

 

I replaced the rear lines (at least, may have been the fronts too but my memory is crap) on my Dad's W211. I used a pressure bleeder and the SBC was ok, although I've spent the money on an icarsoft scanner that can bleed the SBC unit now as it's probably worth it for peace of mind. Paradoxically the worst part of replacing the rear lines was making the section that enters the engine bay and follows the firewall and heads to the SBC unit. The run underneath the car and at the rear arch was fine on the saloon model.

[SiC]

1 minute ago, Rust Collector said:

I replaced the rear lines (at least, may have been the fronts too but my memory is crap) on my Dad's W211. I used a pressure bleeder and the SBC was ok, although I've spent the money on an icarsoft scanner that can bleed the SBC unit now as it's probably worth it for peace of mind. Paradoxically the worst part of replacing the rear lines was making the section that enters the engine bay and follows the firewall and heads to the SBC unit. The run underneath the car and at the rear arch was fine on the saloon model.

Interesting info that a pressure bleeder works! Was this on the reservoir? I suspect my Foxwell will bleed it too.

I don't think I'll be doing them myself though as laying under a (modern) car outside doing brake lines isn't my kettle of fish nowadays. 

[SiC]

38 minutes ago, N Dentressangle said:

Surprised that didn't fail.

Agreed, I'd get that replaced as long as the rest of the car's worth it.

I have spoken to them before on this and it's nearly impossible to judge. So it inevitably ends up being a benefit of doubt unless it's leaking or about to. The MOT manual says the following (highlighting is mine):

1.1.11. Rigid brake pipes

If the metal brake pipes have surface dirt that needs to be removed before it’s possible to assess their condition, you can lightly scrape the pipe with a specialist brake pipe corrosion tool or the corrosion assessment tool ‘spade end’. It must be done with care so that any protective coating does not get damaged.

Chafing, corrosion or damage to a rigid brake pipe so that its wall thickness is reduced by 1/3 (approximately 0.25mm for typical hydraulic brake pipe) justifies rejection, although it’s accepted that this is not easy to determine. If you are not sure whether the pipe is sufficiently deteriorated to justify rejection, you should give the benefit of the doubt.

Repairs to the pressure lines of hydraulic brake systems are unacceptable unless suitable connectors are used. Compression joints of a type using separate ferrules are not suitable.

Unacceptable repairs to brake lines should be failed using RfR 1.1.21 (d)

[Rust Collector]

1 minute ago, SiC said:

Interesting info that a pressure bleeder works! Was this on the reservoir?

For extra mingebag points I made the pressure bleeder myself at home out of a weed sprayer, airline fitting and a spare reservoir cap - but yes, I had it hooked up to the reservoir, pressurised it then cracked the brake lines to force fluid through. I've done that 2 or 3 times on that car now for various bits including hoses and callipers being replaced and so far no issues. I do disconnect the battery before doing anything so that the SBC pump can't do anything clever* like run every time I open the driver's door.

Obviously doing it the proper way is best and recommended, but it is potentially doable using pressure if you're careful. I do suspect though that if the SBC pump activated and drew air through though you'd be scuppered until you could hook up to a suitable computer.

[SiC]

Just now, Rust Collector said:

I do disconnect the battery before doing anything so that the SBC pump can't do anything clever* like run every time I open the driver's door.

Even brake pad work it's probably a good idea to disconnect the SBC plug. Otherwise opening the door apparently can cause the calipers to close. 

Does your SBC hold the brakes with the ignition off? Mine doesn't but I have read some cars do. I wonder if they removed that on later software versions. 

[Rust Collector]

6 minutes ago, SiC said:

Does your SBC hold the brakes with the ignition off? Mine doesn't but I have read some cars do. I wonder if they removed that on later software versions

To be honest until it came up in this thread I didn’t even know that was a thing with SBC. I don’t think that the car does it; if it had of done I probably would’ve thought it was broken. It’s a very early car though so maybe it does do it and I never activated it when I drove it.

[SiC]

3 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

To be honest until it came up in this thread I didn’t even know that was a thing with SBC. I don’t think that the car does it; if it had of done I probably would’ve thought it was broken. It’s a very early car though so maybe it does do it and I never activated it when I drove it.

I only really notice as I don't use the parking brake when ignition off (as auto) but my wife moans as the car moves a bit. 

[RoverFolkUs]

Definitely worth checking the brake lines that are hidden (away from the tester) behind the plastic undertray(s) in the nearside rear corner. If you feel inclined to do so, I think the sight of them would help you make your mind up pretty quickly, if they are as bad as I imagine they will be!

^ I can't remember exactly as it was a while ago but I think that was a W203, maybe even a W204. Admittedly not the same obviously but IIRC most Mercs of that era are pretty much the same in design. Given the dampness, I'm sure you can tell those ones were caught once it was too late...

[SiC]

Thermostat attempt two. This time a genuine. 

Broken one didn't look visibly faulty.

New one went in straightforwardly. 

Ran up to temperature

I was worried that the 100c marker on the last thermostat was it getting too hot. Noticed this one does it too. However the 100c marker is actually 93c. So not as hot as I thought.

The last thermostat definitely was flaky as it would drop below 80c on a run. That is around 77c actual.

Playing around with the scantool I found that it can do a bit more than I realised on the SBC. Looks like a full bleed is an option. I still won't be doing it. Too many other car related jobs (like welding the Midget) that I need to get on with. Much rather do that than rolling around on my back under this, while trying to thread brake pipes through.

[Matty]

Lovely car tho. Reminds me of my e39. When posh cars were actually posh!

[SiC]

4 minutes ago, Matty said:

Lovely car tho. Reminds me of my e39. When posh cars were actually posh!

These age Mercs I feel have the most class to them. Later ones are too blingy in my eyes. 

But then that may soften off with time as car styling sometimes does. Especially against some of the latest, latest super aggressive looking offerings. 

[Matty]

If I wasn't currently balls deep in other things I'd be having a do at something like this. But then I'd have to sell the ST. And I do love that car. Still not bored of it. But I do like a big saloon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116000142122?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=L4RhYL-qQku&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[SiC]

18 hours ago, Matty said:

If I wasn't currently balls deep in other things I'd be having a do at something like this. But then I'd have to sell the ST. And I do love that car. Still not bored of it. But I do like a big saloon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116000142122?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=L4RhYL-qQku&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I think the Saloons look better than the estates. But can't beat the estates for practicality. 

Very different car to a small hatch though. Possibly I think you might find it a bit boring in comparison?

 

[SiC]

Tyres are ludicrously expensive for this considering they're only 225/55/16. Can't decide which to go for.

 - Accelera and Tomket are the budget options at about £73 each. (Blackcircles)

 - Sumitomo (I believe they make Fallen) is the slightly above budget at £84 (Protyre and ATS). Nankang are similar price.

 - Avon and Kumho (I used to like Kumho but find them noisy) are the mid range at £95 and £85 respectively. (Asda and RAC tyres)

 - The rest are a bit too expensive: Uniroyal is £115, Dunlop is £130 and Conti/Michelin are £140+

 

I'd like to keep it under £100 per tyre really. I bought the TT 18inch Uniroyal for less than that per tyre. Hot favourite is possibly the Avon. However I will possibly have to wait till after Xmas before anywhere near me can fit them. 

Or I could go cheapy Accelera or Tomket which is significantly cheaper than the others. But not sure if I'll regret that decision? At least they're names I kind of recognise rather than some of the other cheapy brands out there. It's not a sports car but it's still a 210bhp RWD vehicle.

Decisions decisions. I would like to get something put on before Xmas, ready for Xmas. So need to decide by Monday at the latest. 

[Matty]

20 minutes ago, SiC said:

I think the Saloons look better than the estates. But can't beat the estates for practicality. 

Very different car to a small hatch though. Possibly I think you might find it a bit boring in comparison?

 

I've had big saloons before and loved em. But that would be my first auto. Which I hate with a passion. Going to have to get used to it at some point I suppose.

[grogee]

I think mine were about the same size for my 525i, or perhaps 17s, but I went for Khumo. Not disappointed at all, they're black, round and hold air. 

Honestly I don't know how people tell tyres apart - I bet most wouldn't be able to tell in a blind test. 

That said I went 'one up' from the Chinese makes, mainly because I snobbishly judge any car that has them fitted. We did fit Landsails to Mrs Grogee's Alfa last year but that's because we were selling it. 

We had Avons that started cracking and I've read that other shiters have experienced this too. 

I have this view (founded on absolutely zero evidence) that Khumo are a proper tyre company that does R&D and quality control. 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

19 hours ago, Matty said:

If I wasn't currently balls deep in other things I'd be having a do at something like this. But then I'd have to sell the ST. And I do love that car. Still not bored of it. But I do like a big saloon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116000142122?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=L4RhYL-qQku&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

That particular car seems the worst of all Worlds to me ; pre-facelift so SBC issues etc, Airmatic with associated potential expenses, 6 pot petrol for low mpgs. No w211 unless a V8 is fast so unless you really want a sunroof and keyless go, I’d recommend spending that sort of money on a post 2006 V6 diesel  the 280 has 190 bhp the 320 220 ( I think) both the same 3.0 V6 that Merc put in everything from Sprinters to S Classes for the best part of 20 years. Will do 40mpg in an E Class cruise all day at 100 and apart from annoying oil cooler leaks don’t really go wrong. Plus there’s much more choice as diesel was the default  choice for E Class buyers for most of this Century , so far.

 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

9 minutes ago, Matty said:

I've had big saloons before and loved em. But that would be my first auto. Which I hate with a passion. Going to have to get used to it at some point I suppose.

I had a manual W211 once , it was horrid. The seating position felt weird , possibly from having to have the seat so far forward to fully depress the clutch ( I’m 6’3 with quite long legs) but I never felt comfortable in it. I got rid of it after a few months. I’ve had 2 W211s, 2 W210s and 3 W212s since- all autos! 

[SiC]

21 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

That particular car seems the worst of all Worlds to me ; pre-facelift so SBC issues etc, Airmatic with associated potential expenses, 6 pot petrol for low mpgs. No w211 unless a V8 is fast so unless you really want a sunroof and keyless go, I’d recommend spending that sort of money on a post 2006 V6 diesel  the 280 has 190 bhp the 320 220 ( I think) both the same 3.0 V6 that Merc put in everything from Sprinters to S Classes for the best part of 20 years. Will do 40mpg in an E Class cruise all day at 100 and apart from annoying oil cooler leaks don’t really go wrong. Plus there’s much more choice as diesel was the default  choice for E Class buyers for most of this Century , so far.

 

Flip side is that the petrol 3.2 V6 coupled to the 5 speed auto is pretty much the unburstable combination. No black death, no turbo issues, no DPF (admittedly only on later diesels), timing chain is strong, simple Multi-Point Injection and plenty of room in the engine bay still to work on it. 

Airmatic springs are available inexpensively now. SBC yes can cause issues but many/most have been replaced. There are options available if it fails. From replacing the brushes and resetting counters to sending off for a refurb to getting a replacement in from a Bosch/Merc specialist.

If not doing big miles or long journeys then the petrol makes a lot of sense still. Yes more money squirted in as fuel but far less potential for any money needed for big powertrain bills. 

Also diesels are no-go now with ULEZ/CAZ for me and many others. 

I can get 30mpg pretty easily on a cruise in this and the price difference in fuel makes it even less of a big deal. 

[SiC]

32 minutes ago, grogee said:

I think mine were about the same size for my 525i, or perhaps 17s, but I went for Khumo. Not disappointed at all, they're black, round and hold air. 

Honestly I don't know how people tell tyres apart - I bet most wouldn't be able to tell in a blind test. 

That said I went 'one up' from the Chinese makes, mainly because I snobbishly judge any car that has them fitted. We did fit Landsails to Mrs Grogee's Alfa last year but that's because we were selling it. 

We had Avons that started cracking and I've read that other shiters have experienced this too. 

I have this view (founded on absolutely zero evidence) that Khumo are a proper tyre company that does R&D and quality control. 

Kumho are a genuine Tyre company based in South Korea. I used to be a big fan but I had a set that wore unevenly over the circumference and put me off. It was then when I changed to a different brand I noticed the noise difference. Had another set subsequently and found again they were a good chunk louder than the Dunlops before. 

Ime in the dry there isn't a whole lot between tyres unless pushing really hard. The big difference I find is in the wet. Whether bombing down a motorway in confidence without the steering wheel lightening up or hitting a big puddle in the dark without needing to pucker up from skimming over the top. 

While there is virtually zero feedback through the wheel on this, so feel is far less important, flip side is that you have less feedback that the tyres are having a hard time. So an excess of grip more than anyone would sensibly would want to push to is no bad thing. 

But the cheapies or midrange could well be sufficient to fit that purpose though. Its whether I can safely risk/guarantee that. However at nearly twice the price, I find it hard to justify the extra cost of the premiums. Especially on this. 

[NorfolkNWeigh]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Flip side is that the petrol 3.2 V6 coupled to the 5 speed auto is pretty much the unburstable combination. No black death, no turbo issues, no DPF (admittedly only on later diesels), timing chain is strong, simple Multi-Point Injection and plenty of room in the engine bay still to work on it. 

Airmatic springs are available inexpensively now. SBC yes can cause issues but many/most have been replaced. There are options available if it fails. From replacing the brushes and resetting counters to sending off for a refurb to getting a replacement in from a Bosch/Merc specialist.

If not doing big miles or long journeys then the petrol makes a lot of sense still. Yes more money squirted in as fuel but far less potential for any money needed for big powertrain bills. 

Also diesels are no-go now with ULEZ/CAZ for me and many others. 

I can get 30mpg pretty easily on a cruise in this and the price difference in fuel makes it even less of a big deal. 

I meant that particular saloon for that money, not all petrol W211’s . If spending £3000 from a stranger why not choose an easier path. Of the five 3.0 V6 diesels I’ve owned and done a helluva lot of miles in ( over a million) never have I had any turbo, dpf or injector problems, must be my gentle use and meticulous maintenance schedule , eh?
I agree  with the ULEZ stuff, I’m even considering changing my 220d estate, which I love , maybe for a 500.  Just need to weigh up 25 mpg vs 45 and how often I go into London, so far since August I’ve done about 7,000 miles and spent about £150 to Citizen Khan. But, math is hard !
 

[SiC]

29 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

I meant that particular saloon for that money, not all petrol W211’s . If spending £3000 from a stranger why not choose an easier path. Of the five 3.0 V6 diesels I’ve owned and done a helluva lot of miles in ( over a million) never have I had any turbo, dpf or injector problems, must be my gentle use and meticulous maintenance schedule , eh?

Your use case of long distance taxi work covers a lot of miles in comparatively short periods and is pretty easy on a car comparatively to most. This gets a car up to temperature progressively and stays at a constant temperature for long periods. Constant load, turbo spinning at constant speeds and a good chance to allow things to cool off gradually.

So little thermal cycling and stress compared to someone starting up and hammering to work 10 or so miles away, parking up and shutting off to run to the office/back home. 

See I see that on that car as an easier path. The turbo and DPF will never fail on it! Injectors are simple and cheap. Gearbox is the solid (admittedly slow slushy which heavily blunts performance) 5 speed rather than the newer, more finicky 7 speed.

Of course there is more to a vehicle than just the powertrain. But having a solid setup does limit the liability level.

I do keep looking to go balls deep in full liability C55/E55 AMG or similar though. Because just why not?

[Cookiesouwest]

When I bought the Mondeo, it had Sumitomo on the fronts.

Had never heard of them.

Was worried they were Chinese death rings.

But they were brilliant. I drive enthusiastically and they impressed me.

Now on my radar for all future tyre purchases.

[Coprolalia]

Sumitomo are generally ok, but I think Falken are their premium brand.

Mytyres.co.uk has Uniroyals at £100.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Uniroyal/RainSport-5/225-55-R16-95V/R-402375

[SiC]

9 hours ago, Coprolalia said:

Sumitomo are generally ok, but I think Falken are their premium brand.

Mytyres.co.uk has Uniroyals at £100.

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/tyre/Uniroyal/RainSport-5/225-55-R16-95V/R-402375

£100 I don't think includes fitting?

I'd rather pay for everything all in for less hassle than getting another fitter to put them on and I supply. 

[SiC]

My current favourites right now is the Kumho. Mostly as it's a decent size brand (that I've heard of) and I have had them before. Not the absolute best tyre from experience but certainly not bad. Drove alright with the compromise being more noisy than the expensive premiums.

Basically a safe bet in my eyes that is not a silly price and i can get them fitted relatively quickly. I.e. buy what you know has worked before for you. 

I have heard that Nankang have come on leaps and bounds. Seen quite a few people rating some of their tyres as superb for trackdays. Excellent handling while being affordable and less of a concern to scrub a set in a session.

[Erebus]

14 minutes ago, SiC said:

My current favourites right now is the Kumho. Mostly as it's a decent size brand (that I've heard of) and I have had them before. Not the absolute best tyre from experience but certainly not bad. Drove alright with the compromise being more noisy than the expensive premiums.

Basically a safe bet in my eyes that is not a silly price and i can get them fitted relatively quickly. I.e. buy what you know has worked before for you. 

I have heard that Nankang have come on leaps and bounds. Seen quite a few people rating some of their tyres as superb for trackdays. Excellent handling while being affordable and less of a concern to scrub a set in a session.

Given they're both A rated for wet grip I don't think you'd go far wrong with either.  Bet the premium brands are ridiculously expensive in what doesn't sound like a common size

[SiC]

5 minutes ago, Erebus said:

A rated for wet grip

I think these tyre performance labels are tested by the manufacturers and not a third party Type Approval authority. So performance on some brands (especially generic re-branded cheapy) possibly need to be taken with a pinch of salt. 

However I'd thought Kumho and Nankang would have been legit enough to not do that. 

Reviews of both seem to put them mid to bottom table against premiums. E.g. Kumho here: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/product-group-tests/91856/tyre-reviews-best-car-tyres-buy-now-2023/tyre-test-2023-results-category

[Sunny Jim]

On 15/12/2023 at 23:12, Matty said:

If I wasn't currently balls deep in other things I'd be having a do at something like this. But then I'd have to sell the ST. And I do love that car. Still not bored of it. But I do like a big saloon

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/116000142122?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=L4RhYL-qQku&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=svwv9r4orxa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

If you ever did want to part with the ST I'm still looking...