[Gear] crunch time & losing its cool... RFU's adventures with a MK2 Focus that escaped death and proves to be a free* car

[RoverFolkUs]

8 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

That's some impressive carnage.  Guessing the engine was turning at some speed when this happened then?

Low gear, high ish speed, so a fair bit of momentum from the car which just kept turning the engine after the initial hydrolock

I wasn't expecting it as it wasn't that deep, although the air intake of a Focus is fairly low. Could have reacted sooner by putting the clutch in quicker but it would have still been curtains for this engine so it's just one of those things 🤷

[RoverFolkUs]

7 minutes ago, Jenson Velcro said:

Is throwing a rod a common problem with those engines? What do you think caused it?

Yes it was a hydrolock unfortunately, this engine was sweet and they're usually pretty solid. The failure was not the fault of itself

[MorrisItalSLX]

16 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Oh dear 😳🤣🤣 

....

Oh hello number 1 conrod, you decided to make a bid for freedom...

Yep, it's even smashed the crank ladder carrier...!!! 

That shouldn't be facing that way...

A 2nd hole in the block.. 

Let's not waste any time stripping this down and getting it out then.. more tomorrow! 

[RoverFolkUs]

I had a spare few hours this afternoon to continue with the engine removal.

Honestly this has been a piece of cake so far, only one rounded bolt which had to be cut off for the mani-cat bracket, but even the exhaust manifold nuts and the single bolt came out without snapping or any heat! Even the little 10mm's holding the manifold heat shield came out without snapping! 

Images don't do justice of just how stripped this is, but all wiring, pipes and ancillaries are either disconnected/removed and stowed away. 

 

I decided these nuts were a sign to pack away and reconvene tomorrow as the oxyacetylene was boxed in at the opposite end of the workshop!

 

Enjoy this upskirted image of its undercarriage, hopefully this does more justice showing what's left.. 

All useful ancillaries boxed up in case the transplant engine will need any. I've removed the power steering pump and pipes complete without disturbing the union from hell. If you know, you know! 

And yes I'll probably be reusing that coolant.. because Autoshite rebuild

Please spare any comments questioning "why have you taken that off, don't need to" - when you're doing something like this its usually more time efficient to strip the old engine down as much as possible so you can get it out in one hit without farting around looking for hidden cables and connections and subsequently running the risk of damaging something important or destroying some £50 coolant housing or whatever. 

So yes, it's literally just the engine, gearbox and exhaust left so I reckon another hour or two and that engine will be out! 

I'm going to opt for dropping it out from underneath by getting the car as low as possible on the ramp, the underbonnet engine support onto the engine, lower it onto a couple of tyres and then lift the car off it. 

That's the plan

Looks like the car boot will be rained off in the morning so that will free up a bit more time as well. 

[Matty]

Ford's eh.

[beko1987]

I think it's a great idea tbh, best of luck to you! 

Rebuild all the duplicate ancilleires at your leisure that your left with then swap them over. Voila new* engine! Then refurb and ebay the now redundant ones now you know what your doing from the first ones

[Matty]

11 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I think it's a great idea tbh, best of luck to you! 

Rebuild all the duplicate ancilleires at your leisure that your left with then swap them over. Voila new* engine! Then refurb and ebay the now redundant ones now you know what your doing from the first ones

Beko makes a point I've done a lot of thinking on recent. Only my opinion, but new cars seem fragile and compromised. Whereas binning broken stuff was financially sensible in the past, setting your cap at something and keeping it going looks like being the best course now. And IMHO the environmentally friendly way to boot

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, Matty said:

Ford's eh.

Is that off something fairly new? I've seen a lot of Ford manual box failures 2018 onwards..

[RoverFolkUs]

55 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

I think it's a great idea tbh, best of luck to you! 

Rebuild all the duplicate ancilleires at your leisure that your left with then swap them over. Voila new* engine! Then refurb and ebay the now redundant ones now you know what your doing from the first ones

Thank you

Now there's an idea, my original thought was to sell off the excess but the hoarder that lives inside me loves the idea of keeping a load of spares just in case 😉😆

[Matty]

54 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Is that off something fairly new? I've seen a lot of Ford manual box failures 2018 onwards..

Nah its the standard IB5 out my ST. Span the diff bearings on my missus going round a roundabout and spat the diff out the casing. 200 quid second hand gearbox, quick going over and new bearings here and there. New clutch and back on the road. Try doing that with something modern 😄

[RoverFolkUs]

I was chatting to a non-car person about all this last night and he absolutely cannot understand why I'm fixing it and thinks that it's totally stupid to be spending so much on a car that's "not worth it"

I asked him why it's not worth it, and he reminded me that I only paid £750 for it (as I have told him in the past, but only as a moot point!)

I tried to explain that's completely irrelevant as you can't find a decent car for £750 these days but it fell on deaf ears

I explained the following: 

Current scrap value = ~£350

Estimated repair cost = ~£650-800 (not just the engine work, but all the other bits I was going to do as well, alongside preventative maintenance along the way such as new cambelt for the replacement engine, etc) 

I said I'm looking at £1200 for a car that I have known for the last 4 years, I've maintained it myself all that time, it will have new brakes, a fresh cambelt and full service, and I know that I've done everything I can to keep it running for years to come

I could buy a similar car for £1500-£2000 but it probably won't have a fresh cambelt, it may or may not need new brakes, suspension, tyres (I know for a fact my car doesn't/won't in the near future because I know the exact condition of the car) - in any case the cost is definitely going up and definitely not coming down after purchase - so how would I be better off? 

The conversation just circled back round to the original "point" about me spending nearly £800 on a £750 car 🤦‍♂️

I don't understand where the original purchase cost comes into it!? 

[beko1987]

You missed out the shit ton you're about to learn, that's got to count for something. 

It's fucked anyway, be a good experiment and who knows where it'll lead! Your not far away from being able to buy a smacked up the arse one and have the engine swapped by lunchtime Sunday when this starts surely 😂🤞

I pondered this dabbing krust onto the Xsara Friday, it's a 22 year old car and this is the first bit of touch up I'm really having to do to it, that's not too shabby. And trustworthy as you say. Plus perusing marketplace for a friend recently it's fucking dire out there, anything for £800 and your gonna WANT to be under to pronto before you start trusting your life to it anyway and who knows what it'll need! Engine could be mint! Everything else though... 

[juular]

15 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

The conversation just circled back round to the original "point" about me spending nearly £800 on a £750 car 🤦‍♂️

I honestly think this is a result of generations of people justifying buying new shit even though that doesn't make financial sense, and an army of dealers only too happy to keep repeating that same mantra.

Sometimes replacing something is the right thing to do, but I definitely think fixing shit properly is way better in the longer term.

The value of the asset on the open market has no relation to its value to you.

[RoverFolkUs]

6 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

You missed out the shit ton you're about to learn, that's got to count for something. 

It's fucked anyway, be a good experiment and who knows where it'll lead! Your not far away from being able to buy a smacked up the arse one and have the engine swapped by lunchtime Sunday when this starts surely 😂🤞

I pondered this dabbing krust onto the Xsara Friday, it's a 22 year old car and this is the first bit of touch up I'm really having to do to it, that's not too shabby. And trustworthy as you say. Plus perusing marketplace for a friend recently it's fucking dire out there, anything for £800 and your gonna WANT to be under to pronto before you start trusting your life to it anyway and who knows what it'll need! Engine could be mint! Everything else though... 

He started showing me a few cars off gumtree, one was a suspicious looking 1 series for £1200 and another was a shitty 2005 Clio for £1300 

A MK2 Focus is much less of a liability than the BMW and far superior to the MK2 Clio, so I'm still not on board with how I'd be better off! 

Who knows a car better than the person who's personally put an engine in it!? 

Getting another one and pinching it's engine was my preferred option but it's a bit of hassle trying to buy an accident damaged or MOT failure car, storing it, taking the engine out of that one, and then arranging it to get taken away. I've got unlimited access to the workshop but I think filling the yard up with 2 dead Focii would be a bit of urine extraction.. also, these 1.6 Ti-VCT are a lot more thin on the ground than the standard 99bhp one. I've found plenty of scrappers with the latter engine but not my type with the fandangled but generally bulletproof VVT system 

[RoverFolkUs]

5 minutes ago, juular said:

I honestly think this is a result of generations of people justifying buying new shit even though that doesn't make financial sense, and an army of dealers only too happy to keep repeating that same mantra.

Sometimes replacing something is the right thing to do, but I definitely think fixing shit properly is way better in the longer term.

The value of the asset on the open market has no relation to its value to you.

He said why not take the £350 scrap and top up the £800 you'd spend on the current car to put towards a "new" car

It's not new though, it's someone else's liability that they're trying to get rid of

It's important to see a car purchase as taking on an ongoing liability for the costs of repair. If an engine was £1000 I'd have thought twice and just scrapped it, but I can get one for around £400, so with a £400 buffer for all the other parts it needs it's a well sorted car for the same cost of buying someone else's liability!

Oh and the other thing was "what happens if the replacement engine blows up next month" 

What about the engine from the "new" car blowing up next month? They've both got second hand engines in them... Neither are brand new!

[juular]

There's also a value in having something that you just know is sorted, which is intangible but in my eyes worth a fortune.

[RoverFolkUs]

Just now, juular said:

There's also a value in having something that you just know is sorted, which is intangible but in my eyes worth a fortune.

We're definitely on the same page here, because I said pretty much exactly the same thing to him! Then he interpreted that as it being a labour of love 🙄

It can't be a labour of love when the total cost is still within the market value of the car, it's only a labour of love if you're spending £3000 on it or something! 

[beko1987]

It can't be a labor of love if you enjoy doing it! 

Just make sure you ruddy well have fun... 

Any 'while your in there etc, £6.99 o-rings' thoughts creeping in yet? I'm fucking terrible for that 

[RoverFolkUs]

39 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

It can't be a labor of love if you enjoy doing it! 

Just make sure you ruddy well have fun... 

Any 'while your in there etc, £6.99 o-rings' thoughts creeping in yet? I'm fucking terrible for that 

The only casualties so far was the dipstick tube being seized in thanks to alloy corrosion, it's out but it took a beating and the o-ring doesn't look much like an o ring any more 🤣 - there was a lot of alloy corrosion at the oil cooler so the hoses were twisting it up a bit, but luckily the new engine should come with both of these and hopefully they'll be ok. 

I haven't really come across anything else needing expensive o rings luckily, because that's what makes these jobs add up! It's just wiring and hoses mainly, since it's a ford and not a modern VAG engine there aren't that many housings to faff about with that would require new seals. 

The only casualty that I may have to fork out for was a brake servo pipe, it has a red collar which has gone brittle and broke in two, it still fits snug in the rubber grommet and I may be able to just blob some epoxy or silicon around it for extra peace of mind, but if there are any problems I'm happy to get a new one 

I might have to get a new brake servo if it's suffered some damage in any way, "because brakes", as the pipe was full of water, - we'll see if it's done any damage from sitting in there. A replacement won't be too expensive if needed, so it's not the end of the world. 

[Rustybullethole]

1 hour ago, juular said:

There's also a value in having something that you just know is sorted, which is intangible but in my eyes worth a fortune.

This in spades. Knowing you've been all over it makes driving the thing more of a pleasure. 

Mate had a 1.6 that he picked up with a knock. Pulled it on the drive with some exuberance and it shot a rod. He was well impressed that you could see straight through the block his mum less so about the fresh oil stains.

Out mk 2 has been a trooper. its the 1.8 and is a bit smoky (like the owner) has a slight drinking problem (like the owner) sounds like shit first thing in the morning....

Been on the fleet a few years now has needed springs as fronts snapped, tyres and oil and thats it. 800 quid car from said focus fettling mate had bought it needing a clutch and sorted bits for his mum to run it for a year so knew some history. Like the way the 1.8 pulls third like a diesel though 1.6 vvt is more fun to drive.

Stick at it be reet. 

[RoverFolkUs]

So, I reconvened this afternoon and got those very rusty nuts off. There's no substitute for oxyacetylene and a well fitting socket! 

 

With the exhaust out the way, next job was to get the gearbox out... Even the driveshafts came out of the hubs ok which is rare for these Focii! I noticed a split lower ball joint cover on the offside front.. which is annoying as I need to check if it's replaceable or moulded. If it's moulded then it can wait until MOT time because the ball joint itself is fine.

 

Gearbox out, not much left holding the engine in! 

 

Rigged up a very Autoshite-style engine support because the engine crane was blocked in by another car and numerous obstacles which I couldn't be arsed to shift out the way. Worked a treat though! 

 

Lowered the engine onto the tyres, undid the engine mount and then lowered the engine support, and it's on its way out! Like an elephant giving birth

 

Raise the car, and she's out! 

 

Is there a prize for winning cambelt roulette? 🤣

 

And that's all for now folks! Now to get everything ordered. The clutch is still in excellent condition so I'll be reusing that, but I'll probably replace the concentric slave cylinder while the box is out. New cambelt kit for the new engine if it needs it, and most importantly, finding the best donor engine!

I'll pilferage as many salvageable parts off the old engine to reuse/keep/sell, and then lob the carcass in the scrap! 

Had a gander at the rear brakes, all I can tell is that the friction material seems very brittle and crumbly so that may be the cause of the persistent noise I was experiencing, I wonder if the shoes have been previously contaminated 

[twosmoke300]

Pas union from hell . 
Oh yeh I know alllllll about that fucker

 

[RoverFolkUs]

3 minutes ago, twosmoke300 said:

Pas union from hell . 
Oh yeh I know alllllll about that fucker

 

What were they thinking and what ever was wrong with a banjo? 😂

So stupid that if you undo it (if you even manage to without cutting the pipe first!) then it will leak if you reuse it. You can't just replace the nut unless you carefully cut it off so you've got to budget for new pipes and the union whenever you have to take it apart!

[AnnoyingPentium]

57 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

In my head, I honestly thought your car was that silver/blue colour they all came in. Turns out it's not. 

The above is not useful to this thread, but I'll wish you a good luck so I'm not completely wasting forum space...

[RoverFolkUs]

15 minutes ago, AnnoyingPentium said:

In my head, I honestly thought your car was that silver/blue colour they all came in. Turns out it's not. 

The above is not useful to this thread, but I'll wish you a good luck so I'm not completely wasting forum space...

Ah no, it's "jeans blue" which was more common on the C-Max I think, and only the earlier editions of the MK2 Focus. I've mainly seen this colour on 54-06 plates, with the odd 56 plate. With mine being an 06 plate I think it must be among the last, because the dark blue 07/57 plate MK2's all seem to be a different shade as below taken from the internet which carried over to the MK2.5:

Again, more useless trivia to waste forum resources 🤣

[Noel Tidybeard]

will you head fit an "ordinary" block?

[RoverFolkUs]

5 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

will you head fit an "ordinary" block?

Yes it should do, only the camshafts and pulleys are different for the Ti-VCT in terms of the engine itself, but pretty much all of the ancillaries are different so it would need a lot of swapping over. 

I've totted it up, and if I went for that block on eBay for £150, by stripping down my engine and putting all the good parts, I'll be another couple hundred quid deep in "engine build sundries" to have an unknown bottom end.. 

Alternatively, £380-420 buys me an engine accompanied with a video of it running and from a similar mileage car

I dare say the block might be the same (or only similar and subsequently not interchangable) as a MK1 but I can't be sure on that, there's bound to be some difference, but it's still the Sigma family engine so the bare bones should be almost identical 🤔

[Dave_Q]

Designing and validating blocks and pistons and stuff is expensive so if they are the same capacity I'd be very surprised if the basic short engine was different just to add some adjustment to the cams

[RoverFolkUs]

Just now, Dave_Q said:

Designing and validating blocks and pistons and stuff is expensive so if they are the same capacity I'd be very surprised if the basic short engine was different just to add some adjustment to the cams

I think you're right, if I already had one to hand I'd definitely be trying it, or if the very kind offer up-thread wasn't in Liverpool - 5 hours away from me, but I think the "correct" engine is cheap enough as I could get the "normal" engine for around £250 with a lot more choice, but I probably wouldn't be much better off by the time it's all built up. 

[High Jetter]

Do a full bottom-end rebuild, propa 60s/70s style.