Range Rover Classic 3.9 V8 - conclusions

[N Dentressangle]

OK, a short thread thing about the counterpart to the boring as fuck Pug 206 which is my new bad weather commuting thing.

I've trialled for many years now with my local Land Rover ALRC club. Always used my Series 3, which has done alright for both trials and green laning. Recently though the Series has been pretty uncompetitive in trials (lack of grip, no power steering etc) and bloody uncomfortable on my aging body for a day's green laning.

So, thoughts turned to a replacement. More power would be nice - I could pedal harder than the PoS 2.25 petrol sometimes - and power steering was a must. Better brakes would also be good, and more comfort definitely. My back is starting to get painful, and a day in the torture driving position of a Series Landy was doing me no good at all. Defender 90's are £5k+, and not very comfortable. Way too much money for a hobby car which will do 1000 miles per year absolute tops. I've got a Disco 300tdi already which is far to nice to bash up off-road, plus diesel doesn't exactly strain yer knicker elastic, does it?

You can see where this is going...

[N Dentressangle]

I toyed with the idea of tricked up D2's, but the rear chassis rot on them is epic, and there's a lot of crap electronic bollocks to go wrong. I hate crap electronic bollocks. Also they come almost exclusively in TD5 flavour. Another boring smelly diesel engine, with loads of built in unreliability just for you. I know of no-one with a TD5 who has not had endless shitty problems with it. No thanks

As for Freelanders, they do nothing for me. 1 or 2. The 2 is hard to turn into a decent off-road weapon, the 1 has loads of well-known issues too. Both come with nasty diesel donks, so not the stuff that dreams are made of.

What else?

[N Dentressangle]

P38's. Hmmm. Massive to heave round a trialling course, but doable.

But the diesels are diesels and slower than a channel ferry. The petrols are made at the fag end of Rover's time with shagged out V8 tooling and blow HG's for a pastime. Like my last P38. Plus you get all the fun of the P38 electronics fair with bonging and immobilisations a gogo, I haven't got a Nanocom and can't be arsed with any of that shit.

There was only one possibility left.

[Matty]

Jago jeep?

[Crackers]

If it's the slightly crispy, MOT failed, but fundamentally good-looking Silver one that Mathewsons had up for auction the other week I'm going to kill you.

[N Dentressangle]

12 minutes ago, Matty said:

Jago jeep?

Not eligible for ALRC events sadly. I'd love it if they had a Suzuki Jeep class. But they don't.

[N Dentressangle]

12 minutes ago, Crackers said:

If it's the slightly crispy, MOT failed, but fundamentally good-looking Silver one that Mathewsons had up for auction the other week I'm going to kill you.

I'm safe and live to die another day then.

[N Dentressangle]

I was keeping a very half-arsed eye on FB and Ebay. A few things cropped up, but Range Rover Classics tend to be either wannabe Kingsley 'I saw you coming' type jobs, or piles of shitty rusty knackered arse needing more welding than Ark Royal. I wanted somewhere in the middle.

Rather liked this one:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/236911332051104/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

but it was 170 miles away and £3.5k is a fair wedge for an off-road prepped one. Weirdly, off-road kit actually reduces the value. For me it was a bonus - stuff like HD bumpers etc are really dear, and you can easily spunk a grand on various wanky off-road 'upgrades'. All entirely neccessary, of course.

[N Dentressangle]

My ideal price for cars is £1500. No idea why, but many of the best cars I've ever had recently have come for this amount. So when I saw this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204303843715

I was like

[straightSix]

Possibly one of my favourite cars but never had the stones to actually buy one so watching with interest/jealousy 

[N Dentressangle]

1 minute ago, straightSix said:

Possibly one of my favourite cars but never had the stones to actually buy one so watching with interest/jealousy 

No need for testicular grandiosity - RRC's are piss simple cars. The V8 is straight out of https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069704/ with pushrods and a timing chain. It gets worn and baggy but will usually run. The rest is all Disco 1. So very mendable.

I knew that as long as it turned over, there were only a few real possibilities for the FTP: in-tank fuel pump, ECU, and ignition amplifier. The MoT history - check out H258FFP - was pretty clean and free of horrendous rot diagnoses.

So I clicked the BiN button. Without having seen it or anything.

WCPGW?

[N Dentressangle]

I messaged the owner straight away with my number, just to show I wasn't pissing about.

Within 2min he called me back. All sounded straight and good, exactly like the ad. It didn't sound like he knew that much about cars - could be good, could be bad... - but my bullshitter antennae weren't twitching and all the answers to my questions sounded reasonable.

The car was 100 miles away from me in Weybridge, so I checked that a mate was free to help pick it up and agreed a provisional date. Said mate is, handily, a Land Rover Statto. I'm unhealthily familiar with rusty Solihull products, but he makes me look like I lust after Renault Zoes or something. Sorted.

My two 'local' trailer hire companies are an hour's drive and 30 miles away. Sod that, so we agreed my mate would hire a massive fuck off Ifor Williams thing from his local place and bring it down. It was a beast, clearly made for brutish farmer types rather than us delicate metrosexuals. So the Friday before last we hitched it to the back of my Disco and set sail for Weybridge.

[N Dentressangle]

I'd dragged the 206 down from Manc on a Brian James just a few weeks earlier. Apart a bit more leisureliness than normal, you could barely tell it was there. The Ifor was in a different league. It towed like a bastard even empty, and was crazy heavy. I could tell the journey back with 2t of RRC on it was going to be interesting.

The directions I'd had to pick the car up were also interesting. Apparently it was on a private estate, and we'd need to clear security before they'd let us in to pick it up. Initially I had visions of an industrial estate type thing, but a bit of googling showed that this was a private estate built around a golf course in Surrey. Good job I was wearing clean pants.

We got there and made it through the gatehouse, peasants that we were. Dodging the Jags and Astons, we trundled round the estate roads with our massive trailer until we found the several million £££ worth of house where the RRC was languishing. It belonged to one of the two soms of the family, who'd fancied an off-roader but bitten off more than he could chew. Having bought it a year earlier, he'd driven it a few times then left it on his parents' drive after the FTP. Mum now wanted rid of her son's ugly old shitheap. Sounds familiar.

He'd bought a new battery, so we fitted it and turned the key. It cranked a few times as R V8's are wont to do, then fired into healthy life - bonus! The vendor thought we were both automotive magicians, so we let him carry on thinking that. I drove it onto the massive trailer, we strapped it down, had a cup of tea and a quick wee and off we fucked.

[N Dentressangle]

What I haven't mentioned is that the RRC was minging. Really minging.

Covered in slime on the outside it had been stood under trees for most of the past year. The interior was gopping, with a niff so fucking awful I wished I'd brought at least a covid mask, or maybe a welding one. Everything was soaking wet and mouldy, apart from the seats. Frigging hell, it was as miuch as I could do to get in and move it, especially as the wndows wouldn't open. Nasty.

Anyway, we wobbled off past the millionaires, sat in traffic on the M25 and eventually groaned onto the M4, the poor old Disco massing all its 111 horses to drag 3t of trailer and stinking Range Rover westwards.

Eventually we stopped for another wee. Too mucn tea, y'see

[N Dentressangle]

You can't really tell in those pics, but it was covered in greenish tree slime. So I gave it a wash:

My daughter had already peeled some of the daft stickers of it. I junked the carpets and think foam sound deadening crap underneath them. No need for that where we're going, Toto. Plus they stank like Nigel Farage's Y fronts. All went off to the tip. Boot mat was so heavy with water I could only just lift it.

[N Dentressangle]

Which left us with a good sight of the floors. As every RRC victim knows, these are generally holier than the pope. In this case it seemed we'd got off with something more like a provincial bishop:

Rear body X member looks a bit pious, mind:

and sure enough, some attention from the grinder produced:

[somewhatfoolish]

RRCs give me the horn. Wood.

[sutty2006]

I really want a RRC to replace my D1 but the fucking thing keeps living! Ungrateful shit. Looking forward to the updates. 

[eddyramrod]

2 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

RRCs give me the horn. Wood.

This.  I'm actually painting one at the moment for my model collection!

[brownnova]

RRCs are one of those I fear I missed the boat in on price wise. I’ll never forget as a teenager my friend who really got me into cars bought one for cheap monies. A C-Reg light blue V8.… he picked me up in it a few times which I loved! Sadly it then ended up going wrong big style….  So he got rid 

[sutty2006]

1 hour ago, brownnova said:

RRCs are one of those I fear I missed the boat in on price wise. I’ll never forget as a teenager my friend who really got me into cars bought one for cheap monies. A C-Reg light blue V8.… he picked me up in it a few times which I loved! Sadly it then ended up going wrong big style….  So he got rid 

I bought one around 2009 ish for 500 quid. A 3.9 on gas with a cherry bomb exhaust. Was a weapon. But I sold it for about 700. Wish I’d kept it but it kept breaking and I couldn’t be arsed with it. 

[eddyramrod]

1 hour ago, sutty2006 said:

I bought one around 2009 ish for 500 quid. A 3.9 on gas with a cherry bomb exhaust. Was a weapon. But I sold it for about 700. Wish I’d kept it but it kept breaking and I couldn’t be arsed with it. 

That sounds like one I went to look at in Manchester, some time in 2008.  I don't know why I chickened out of it but I did, and now the only ones I can afford are 1/43 scale!

[N Dentressangle]

Right, so time to start welding the rusty shitbox up. No-one buys an RRC (or Disco 1 for that matter) and imagines they won't be doing a bit* of welding and the Big Red Turd was no different.

That nasty hole in the rear X member was easily dealt with:

As this is an off road toy, the final appearance was not something I gave two fucks about. However, after some sealant, paint and underseal it looked pretty good! Filler and paint makes me the welder I ain't, as they say.

Bit of digging around the boot floor led to some more patching. Luckily I noticed the return fuel line was right under this hole before I deployed the sparkle stick and blew myself onto the moon:

 

At this point I wasn't bored witless of welding so thought I'd be trick and actually make a panel that kind of fitted:

But don't worry, I soon got fed up with this uncharacteristically conscientious approach and just blammed the next big patch over the top:

Fuck it - it's an off roader and that's plenty strong enough.

With everything seam sealed, I then bartled two nice thick coats of red oxide over the whole boot floor:

That'll learn it. I've put the boot carpet back in but not the undermatting. The seats and all the rest of the crap out of the back went to the tip, as said. Not interested in screaming passengers anyway.

[N Dentressangle]

5 hours ago, brownnova said:

RRCs are one of those I fear I missed the boat in on price wise. I’ll never forget as a teenager my friend who really got me into cars bought one for cheap monies. A C-Reg light blue V8.… he picked me up in it a few times which I loved! Sadly it then ended up going wrong big style….  So he got rid 

You haven't missed the boat at all.

Defenders are £5k+, and rubbish value when you look at what they are and do.

Disco 1's are basically an RRC with a better interior and a diesel motor, and they're haveable for £1500+. You can still find an RRC for this price - it's what I paid for mine - and the welding (there will always be some) isn't usually that difficult. The rear arches / belt mounts are abou £45 for the repair panel and just spotweld in once the old one is drilled and ground off. Sills are just box section, so easy to fix. The rear X member is a bit tedious if it's completely rotten, but can be patched.

The worst area to repair is if it's rotted around the bulkhead above and underneath the brake servo. It's an MoT fail obvs, but it's also a right bollock to fix as you have to take the pedals out and also the entire dashboard - a day's work. I would walk away from one which was rotten around there.

Front inner arches rot, but aren't an MoT fail as they aren't structural. You can just rivet on some repairs if you want.

The ZF 4hp22 autobox lasts really well, the V8 puts up with neglect / abuse willingly, and the worst problem is the 12-18mpg. Which isn't a problem if you don't do many miles.

£2-3000 will still buy a worthwhile RRC, only just a bit more than you'd pay for a Disco 1. Just ignore the dreamers who've been reading too many Kingsley Cars ads and think the blown paint rotten pooheap is worth £5k. Like this muppet: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1510546979688901/ No surprise it's been for sale for ages.

[Rust Collector]

This is awesome. Really looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

I would love a RRC, but my next big* ticket purchase is lined up to be a Series 3.

[N Dentressangle]

There now followed some more jobs. Jobs which the PO would have done, if he'd known the difference between a screwdriver and a spanner. Hey ho.

This is the second RRC I've bought from someone with fuck all mechanical ability. Seriously, a car which was known in its day for raging unreliability and as an auto-fault shit magnet? Why do they buy these bloody things?

Aaaaanyway, first on the list was to make the bastard back doors open from the outside as well as the inside. Kind of a reverse child lock effect. Here's the door, pants down:

You need to remove that shiny gold plate (not actually gold), unbolt the door handle then adjust the fiddly little rod which links the handle to the lock. First door took me about 2 hrs trying to work out how to access everything, second was done in 30min. So it goes.

The great* thing about LR products (old ones, anyway) is that although they're really shit and break almost all the time, you can actually mend or adjust pretty much everything so it works again. For a bit.

[N Dentressangle]

Let's play spot the differences:

 

[bezzabsa]

Loved all 3 of my RR's... 2 early 3 door V8's and an M reg Softdash 300Tdi which had been tuned

also owned 5 disco's 1 was G reg V8 on carbs that got 20Mpg round town and 33 on a run

[sutty2006]

18 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

Loved all 3 of my RR's... 2 early 3 door V8's and an M reg Softdash 300Tdi which had been tuned

also owned 5 disco's 1 was G reg V8 on carbs that got 20Mpg round town and 33 on a run

Was it down on 4 cylinders? 
🤣

[N Dentressangle]

17 minutes ago, bezzabsa said:

Loved all 3 of my RR's... 2 early 3 door V8's and an M reg Softdash 300Tdi which had been tuned

also owned 5 disco's 1 was G reg V8 on carbs that got 20Mpg round town and 33 on a run

Properly set up carbs are actually better than the primitive Lucas EFI on these - it's a bit like programming a ZX81 to run it. It has nothing to do with the ignition or timing either. Good explanation for 14CUX vorgins here:

http://www.g33.co.uk/pages/technical_fuel_injection.html