JJ0063’s current steed - Life of an impulsive car owner [N47 CHAIN GANG]

[bigfella2]

Don't most moderns cycle the glow plugs when you open the door or unlock it, so you don't have to wait for the glow plug to go out?

But I would be surprised if they function in this weather. Would a bad tank of diesel do this or water in the filter? My knowledge finished when they went from PD to CR's. Thats when I stopped buying vag shite, thank Christ.

I had this on a caddy when the torsion value was out, but it's not really applicable to this.

[RoverFolkUs]

That sounds like its cranking wayyyy too slow. Though I concur with whats already been said a few posts back - slow cranking probably isn't going to cause all that smoke

Battery test? 

Get Halfrauds or F1 autocentres to do a check, loiter under the bonnet and get the CCA reading. DO NOT buy a new one from them though!

Worth checking the glowplug resistance, but they'll usually throw a management code (flashing glowplug light, sometimes pollution light, sometimes normal EML light..  etc) if it detects the resistance going out of spec. 

[SiC]

Put a jumper cable between the engine and negative terminal next time. It'll check to see the state of the earths. 

[JJ0063]

Thanks for the suggestions, I’ll try and nip somewhere to get the battery tested.

 

Heres this morning with the jump pack after the car not being driven for a couple of days, sorry I pressed stop on the record as soon as it started but you can still see it starts fine

 

This was then immediately after with no jump pack

The issue I have is that how it starts with the jump pack on, 9 out of 10 times it starts like that without the pack.. there’s no pattern to it apart from it only doing it from cold.

 

[JJ0063]

So it’s been 8 hours, just went out to try it again with no jump pack and it started like a bag of shit again.

Think the logical step is to get the battery tested first, then glow plugs, then sell it

[RoverFolkUs]

Try draining the battery a bit and seeing if it does it again. I.e leave the headlights on for a bit but keep an eye on the voltage so as not to flatten it. 

Maybe even get it nice and hot and try to drain the battery while the engine is hot and try starting it before it cools down. Then you know if it's related to the battery or its something else. 

Although it would be best, you don't strictly need a battery test, you can check with a multimeter. Get someone to crank it and observe the reading on the meter. Theoretically shouldn't go below 10.5v. Any less than 10v and it's goosed. But multimeters have relatively high latency so aren't perfect

If it never does it when hot, it's got to be one of three things in my eyes

- Battery - because it's been charged up a bit while warming up

- Glow plugs - they aren't needed as much when the engine is already hot

- Fuel supply - it's draining back after an extended period of time

[JJ0063]

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Try draining the battery a bit and seeing if it does it again. I.e leave the headlights on for a bit but keep an eye on the voltage so as not to flatten it. 

Maybe even get it nice and hot and try to drain the battery while the engine is hot and try starting it before it cools down. Then you know if it's related to the battery or its something else. 

Although it would be best, you don't strictly need a battery test, you can check with a multimeter. Get someone to crank it and observe the reading on the meter. Theoretically shouldn't go below 10.5v. Any less than 10v and it's goosed. But multimeters have relatively high latency so aren't perfect

If it never does it when hot, it's got to be one of three things in my eyes

- Battery - because it's been charged up a bit while warming up

- Glow plugs - they aren't needed as much when the engine is already hot

- Fuel supply - it's draining back after an extended period of time

That’s probably a really good idea to run it so it’s hot then sit with the lights/radio etc on for a bit to see if it runs it down and does it from hot. 
 

I will get a chance to go past Halfords in the next few days so I’ll see if they will stick a tester on it. I’ve used them before and they use the machine which gives a print out. 
 

I agree with your possible outcomes, I think the fuel draining back is the least likely for the sole reason that the smoke is surely unburnt fuel which would imply that when it’s cranking, the fuel is there but for whatever reason it’s not firing. 

[SiC]

If it's starting, do you need to worry about it? Sometimes with cars and especially VAG, you have to live with some faults. 

[JJ0063]

5 minutes ago, SiC said:

If it's starting, do you need to worry about it? Sometimes with cars and especially VAG, you have to live with some faults. 

I don’t but it’ll bug me like mad, I’m going to change the glow plugs regardless as it’s done 132k and there’s no record of them being changed so it won’t hurt. 
 

Il also want to sell it at some point so easier if it’s fixed

[RoverFolkUs]

2 hours ago, JJ0063 said:

That’s probably a really good idea to run it so it’s hot then sit with the lights/radio etc on for a bit to see if it runs it down and does it from hot. 
 

I will get a chance to go past Halfords in the next few days so I’ll see if they will stick a tester on it. I’ve used them before and they use the machine which gives a print out. 
 

I agree with your possible outcomes, I think the fuel draining back is the least likely for the sole reason that the smoke is surely unburnt fuel which would imply that when it’s cranking, the fuel is there but for whatever reason it’s not firing. 

Ah yes, I had forgotten about the smoke and was focusing on the extended crank mainly. 

Gotta be glow plugs? Even battery is unlikely to contribute to anything that could cause smoke. 

Maybe it's a combination of both? As I said, the extended cranking does sound too slow to my mind. 

If the battery is that shit and the extended cranking is sapping power to the glow plugs? Maybe - a far stretch. Just maybe.. 

[SiC]

9 minutes ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Gotta be glow plugs? Even battery is unlikely to contribute to anything that could cause smoke. 

Poor earth could a plausible factor. Voltage drop causes starter and glow plugs to struggle. Injectors will just have their pulse timings corrected for the drop. Also their power consumption is far less and less likely to be affected by a high voltage drop. At least in terms of putting fuel in and the rest not able to combust it. 

That was my thought process when I suggested jumping the engine to battery neg to test the earths. 

[RoverFolkUs]

2 minutes ago, SiC said:

Poor earth could a plausible factor. Voltage drop causes starter and glow plugs to struggle. Injectors will just have their pulse timings corrected for the drop. Also their power consumption is far less and less likely to be affected by a high voltage drop. At least in terms of putting fuel in and the rest not able to combust it. 

That was my thought process when I suggested jumping the engine to battery neg to test the earths. 

Yes, anything is possible indeed! 

I'd have thought any significant voltage drop caused by unwanted resistance would flag up some fault codes, but it wouldn't hurt to check with an extra jump lead to find out for sure as you suggest

[JJ0063]

I will certainly try the jump lead idea too, it’s a good suggestion 

 

I’ve ordered a set of Bosch plugs for £38 so hopefully they will arrive for the weekend. I can at least fit them to rule it out, try the jump lead earth trick and nip somewhere to get the battery tested all over the weekend then!

[SiC]

7 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

I'd have thought any significant voltage drop caused by unwanted resistance would flag up some fault codes

Most sensors and actuators have their own ground return wire back to the ECU. So won't necessarily be affected. 

[JJ0063]

Excuse me wearing ambers crocs

Issue I have now is I don’t know whether it’s helped or if it’s one of the times it starts fine regardless 

I’ll have to try it with the jump lead on every time for a couple of days!

[garbaldy]

Have you got a multi meter yet then 😂

[JJ0063]

43 minutes ago, garbaldy said:

Have you got a multi meter yet then 😂

No, plugs will be here tomorrow so will change them regardless as at 132k they’ll be due on interval anyway, then go from there on if it continues 

[JJ0063]

That was easy, heard horror stories about glow plugs snapping and seizing but all bar number 4 were easy to get out. 4 was stiff to turn but came out easy enough and in one piece 

Not sure if there’s such a thing as a visibly bad glow plug but here they are anyway 

Will have to give it a few days to see if it still does it. I will also get the battery tested hopefully tomorrow

 

[JJ0063]

Still doing it.

 

Just plugged Carly in and with the ignition, radio, heater and headlights on but engine off its reading 11.54v

Going to try and get to Halfords for a battery test later.

this is the live data of it being sat 2hrs after last start, ignition on, voltage drop when cranking then it sitting at 14v when running 

 

[mercedade]

This is a whole lot of work to avoid buying a battery, my man.

Find a friend with a Halfords trade card, or get yourself on Tanya.co.uk

[SiC]

28 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

reading 11.54v

Which module?

[SiC]

If you're going parts cannon on this without proper diagnosis, I really don't know why you didn't buy a new battery first. 

[JJ0063]

I’m not trying to avoid buying one necessarily, more logically working through a couple of options..

Plugs were cheap, no history of them being done so it made sense to change them.

Now it’s still doing it, il get a battery test done and if it shows it’s knackered, I’ll buy one. The car still stared like shit one or two of the times it had a boost pack attached so although you can’t tell properly without a test, it would point towards the battery not being the issue hence plug change first 

[SiC]

55 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

no history of them being done so it made sense to change them.

Out of hundreds of thousands of diesel driven miles, I've never had to change glow plugs. Our A4 was very happy on the original plugs when the fuel system nuked itself at 210k 🤷‍♂️ 

I'd never expect glow plugs to be changed based on miles or age, especially at only 130k odd. 

55 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

I’m not trying to avoid buying one necessarily

But you're doing parts cannon anyway, rather than getting it diagnosed properly! 

[JJ0063]

21 minutes ago, SiC said:

Out of hundreds of thousands of diesel driven miles, I've never had to change glow plugs. Our A4 was very happy on the original plugs when the fuel system nuked itself at 210k 🤷‍♂️ 

I'd never expect glow plugs to be changed based on miles or age, especially at only 130k odd. 

But you're doing parts cannon anyway, rather than getting it diagnosed properly! 

 

For the sake of £8 each for plugs, I’m not worried that I’ve gone ‘parts cannon’ at it - like I say, there’s no faults on Carly or VAG Com, the car still started shit with a jump pack so it’s unlikely to be the battery but I’ll get it tested after work to be sure. 

[SiC]

1 hour ago, JJ0063 said:

there’s no faults on Carly or VAG Com

Just reading error codes is not diagnosing a car problem fully 🤦

[JJ0063]

8 minutes ago, SiC said:

Just reading error codes is not diagnosing a car problem fully 🤦

I know 😂 but what you’re saying is that rather than chancing a cheap set of glow plugs or ‘parts cannon’ as you say, you’ve said you don’t know why I didn’t start with a £120 battery first or pay £££ for a specialist diagnosis? I can’t diagnose it ‘fully’ myself as I only have limited knowledge. 

The only logical thing I can see I could have done different was to get a free battery test first, other than that you’re implying that I’m going about it wrong - I can’t win 🤦‍♂️ 

[JJ0063]

Battery health check came back fine so it can stay like it for now

[Bren]

32 minutes ago, JJ0063 said:

Battery health check came back fine so it can stay like it for now

Might be worth cleaning the connections on the starter.

[garbaldy]

If you had bought the ten quid multimeter first you could have tested glow plugs and battery,. Have the glow plugs got power to them?