I'll get round to it at some point - Bratislava and Back: Things not to do in a mk2 Clio

[wesacosa]

7 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

Today I was graced with the presence of @Back_For_More, who conveniently arrived dual wielding sphere removal tools obtained from @wesacosa.

In short order we had the chastity pants on and the accumulator sphere immediately gave into our combined will. New sphere goodness:

Resplendent with a new sphere and freshly charged battery sourced from The Pile, the XM fired into life (eventually) and lifted up. Excitedly, I killed the ignition and it promptly dropped to the floor again. Bugger. However, firing it up again and telling ourselves that there was probably air in the system did the trick:

It now stays raised up, and it passed the world’s shortest brake test on the 2 foot of drive available behind the Pontiac.

Thanks for your visit today @Back_For_More, really appreciate you taking the time out to come down here and lend a hand - the work flies by when there’s someone else doing it and I can just watch 😅

I’ve since taken it for a risqué drive around the block, as it’s been a while since the neighbours were graced with the noise of an XUD that’s been dragged back to life against its will, and I’m worried that they miss it.

Observations are that it is drivable, but the lazy wiper mechanism needs attention. Also, the car is incredibly slow - the auto box and 2.1 turbo diesel are obviously a winning* combo. Oh, and I should probably sort out the leaky fuel pump as the minutes of laboured cranking are probably even more enjoyable for the neighbours than the clatter of diesel technology from 3 decades ago. And the vehicle stability light is on.

I’m calling it nearly complete!

Enjoy some shots of the velour plushness, taken after I removed all the spare parts from it:

Glad the suspension is behaving.  There should be a fuel primer somewhere which should help the starting if you have an air leak.  Its either a button on the fuel filter housing for a bosch pump or a bulb near the front of the engine on a Lucas pump.  If the glow plugs are also buggered the good news is they are cheap and easy to replace.  The XMs are also prone to and sensitive to injector leak off pipes failing so another possible source of air in fuel/starting woes

Also there is no stability light, its ABS. main culprit is the relay as it hangs in the air in front of the battery tray and is exposed to damp and dirt.  If its not the relay but an actual fault with part of the system the light should blink when you turn the ignition on, before staying on.  If it doesn't blink its a fault with the system powering up (so likely relay or ECU)  I have all the diagrams for relay pins and ECU pins somewhere if you need to do some diagnostics

 

[Rust Collector]

6 hours ago, wesacosa said:

Glad the suspension is behaving.  There should be a fuel primer somewhere which should help the starting if you have an air leak.  Its either a button on the fuel filter housing for a bosch pump or a bulb near the front of the engine on a Lucas pump.  If the glow plugs are also buggered the good news is they are cheap and easy to replace.  The XMs are also prone to and sensitive to injector leak off pipes failing so another possible source of air in fuel/starting woes

Also there is no stability light, its ABS. main culprit is the relay as it hangs in the air in front of the battery tray and is exposed to damp and dirt.  If its not the relay but an actual fault with part of the system the light should blink when you turn the ignition on, before staying on.  If it doesn't blink its a fault with the system powering up (so likely relay or ECU)  I have all the diagrams for relay pins and ECU pins somewhere if you need to do some diagnostics

 

Me too! I didn't have much appetite for removing the whole accumulator and rebuilding it, although I would do if necessary.

I prime it up every time but it still labours to start. I have no doubt the glow plugs are bad but I was under the impression that access is shite, plus the set I bought never turned up and I was too lazy to chase the tenner I paid for them. I'll have another look at testing them and order replacements. I'll check the leak off pipes too whilst I'm in there, do they just break up and leak? I can't see that I'm getting any noticeable amount of diesel down the block or under the car currently.

Your woes with the ABS on your car did pop into mind when I saw that light. For some reason the symbol of a weaving car leaving a sick set of elevens behind it made me think of VSC rather than ABS. Duly noted that I was wrong. Regards to the relay, whilst we were in there reassembling the intake pipes after fitting the sphere we noticed that a big connector to a relay/control module looking thing beside/below the battery box was unplugged. I plugged it back in, and suggested that there was a chance it wasn't me who knocked this off and that by reconnecting it a new fault would emerge 😂 I can't recall if the light was on or not before I reconnected that plug, but it's solid and not flashing from memory so I take it we are in 'all out' fault mode as opposed to something specific. I'll check again this evening and then despair at my leisure.

[wesacosa]

41 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

Me too! I didn't have much appetite for removing the whole accumulator and rebuilding it, although I would do if necessary.

I prime it up every time but it still labours to start. I have no doubt the glow plugs are bad but I was under the impression that access is shite, plus the set I bought never turned up and I was too lazy to chase the tenner I paid for them. I'll have another look at testing them and order replacements. I'll check the leak off pipes too whilst I'm in there, do they just break up and leak? I can't see that I'm getting any noticeable amount of diesel down the block or under the car currently.

Your woes with the ABS on your car did pop into mind when I saw that light. For some reason the symbol of a weaving car leaving a sick set of elevens behind it made me think of VSC rather than ABS. Duly noted that I was wrong. Regards to the relay, whilst we were in there reassembling the intake pipes after fitting the sphere we noticed that a big connector to a relay/control module looking thing beside/below the battery box was unplugged. I plugged it back in, and suggested that there was a chance it wasn't me who knocked this off and that by reconnecting it a new fault would emerge 😂 I can't recall if the light was on or not before I reconnected that plug, but it's solid and not flashing from memory so I take it we are in 'all out' fault mode as opposed to something specific. I'll check again this evening and then despair at my leisure.

access is ok to the glow plugs once you take the inlet manifold off, which is 4 bolts , a jubilee clip and an R-clip.  I think one was a bit fiddly but I have fists of ham and I managed to do it without drama.  They are also the nice fat glow plugs that don't tend to stick and snap.  The glow plug relay can also give problems so worth ruling that in or out too.  I am not sure if the leak offs piss fuel or just get a bit porus and let air in but once the manifold is off you get a good look at them too.  Its also wise to check around the back of the cam cover gasket at that time too as its a big leak path given how canted back the engine is

For the ABS module I am taking a leap of faith that you have a later Teves unit and not a Bendix unit. If its a Bendix ignore everything I say next as I have no idea about that system......

The blinking of the ABS light is quite subtle, it just does it at first key on and then stays on.  The relay is a green relay hanging in space

think its used on other Citroens of the era but its a 4 pin plus one small pin for the light so a normal automotive relay won't work, but a more readily available BMW one is a straight swap if its dead, but its often the pins and connector and not the relay itself.  On the Teves system the EcU provides the earth on the switch for the relay , which in turn activates the relay to send power to the main circuits of the ECU and to turn off the light. Problem on mine is that its not commanding that earth to swich the relay

if you are not sure what abs you have, I'm pretty sure* the Bendix relay is different colour and or/location but if its not then peer down at the ABS pump. if its in front of and below the battery tray and has the ECU attached to it then its a Teves.  The Bendix ECU is remote I think but not sure where 

[Back_For_More]

It's under and in front of the battery tray....... 

Happy to help fella. Thanks again Wes and I'll be back down in the New Year to help out with others once you come up with a plan (or get sick of whatever is not working) 

[Rust Collector]

6 hours ago, wesacosa said:

if you are not sure what abs you have, I'm pretty sure* the Bendix relay is different colour and or/location but if its not then peer down at the ABS pump. if its in front of and below the battery tray and has the ECU attached to it then its a Teves.  The Bendix ECU is remote I think but not sure where 

I think I may have a bentdick as I’m missing a relay:

I found a mystery wire though

Thats filed under ‘problems for another day’.

This is my ABS pump. Possibly.

ZOOM AND UN-ENHANCE

You were right about the diagnostics though. When I turn the ignition on, a relay clicks twice, then the ABS light blinks once and stays on.

I did some Googling on my dog walk and I’m about 3% more informed on the matter than I was before I left. I’ll try and lookup the codes, and what system I have.

[wesacosa]

I think 95/96 was the changeover to Teves so could potentially be either. I think when I took the photo of my green relay I had fished it out a bit as it was probably dangling under those relay boxes so worth a look under there. 

As I say the sure fire way to check is to see if the ecu is mounted directly to the abs pump

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

13 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

I may have a bentdick

That doesn't sound pleasant

[wesacosa]

Bendix

Teves

[Rust Collector]

5 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

Bendix

Yep, that’s me there. The big green plug was what I plugged back in. It didn’t click in place, and it felt loose, which is always good.

Is that the type with unobtanium sensors or have I lucked out?

[wesacosa]

1 minute ago, Rust Collector said:

Yep, that’s me there. The big green plug was what I plugged back in. It didn’t click in place, and it felt loose, which is always good.

Is that the type with unobtanium sensors or have I lucked out?

I think the Bendix ones are the difficult ones to get but not sure if there's another to use or not. One for the XM forum I'd say.  

By the way , not suitable for the ABS as its a Teves but there is, or at least was, an XM 2.5 TD estate in that scrapper near Pease Pottage services in case you need bits although was a while ago so not sure how much is left

[RoverFolkUs]

On 05/12/2023 at 13:55, Rust Collector said:

I have new cylinders and shoes for it, but I paused here as the brake line nut was rounding off - the 10mm flare spanner feels slightly too big but the 9mm flare spanner is too small. I need to see if it's just rust fouling it or maybe my 10mm flare spanner is fucked. That's a weekend job for when the rain and darkness isn't adding to the misery.

It could be 3/8, which is roughly 9.5mm.

Or it's a 10mm that's corroded down to 9.5mm. Take your pick

[chodweaver]

The battery in the XM is of course flat, and the key spins sadly in the driver's door lock, splendid.

For future reference, the key spins in the XM lock barrel when the key is not pushed in the last spring-loaded half mm of its travel

[Rust Collector]

Speaking of key locks, I spotted this in the engine bay:

It took every fibre of my will power to not jam the key in there and break it in an attempt to find out what it does. I’m assuming it disables the alarm.

[Rust Collector]

The hunt for diesel leaks continues:

The spill off pipes weren't looking good so they got replaced.

Air is still leaking in so we are getting closer and closer to the inevitable replacement of the pump.

I did check the glow plugs, and found that they all appear to be working, as is the relay.

Lazy wiper mechanism then.

This was an absolute wanker to get out. Removing the linkages and putting the bonnet in service* mode was the answer:

I celebrated the liberation of the wiper mechanism by jabbing a pick through my finger.

Savlon applied and it was time to get the thing on the bench.

Fuck.

After some top tier throwing everything on the floor, we had somewhere to work.

The fault was that the passenger spindle was seized cock solid. It received some hammer love, everything was cleaned, greased and rebuilt.

The scuttle was full of nature and shit

So I hoovered that out rather than ignoring it like I normally would.

Refitting is the reverse of removal, i.e. more fucking misery.

The linkages have to be pressed back in once the main assembly has been put in. Water pump pliers were handy for this.

It turns out the old park position was miles out. That'll fucking teach me for being proactive.

The good news is that the wiper mechanism works beautifully now on all 3 speeds.

The bad news is that something doesn't line up quite right. The driver's side wiper arm knocks on the scuttle panel when it parks.

That photo is misleading but it's all I've got - it's actually the raised section with the pivot that strikes the plastic.

'Just move the arm on the spindle!' I hear you say.

I tried that - one more spline up and it doesn't strike the trim but it does sail off the edge of the screen at the end of travel. That's not good.

I tried swapping the arms around and the driver's side is then fine and it's the passenger side that strikes the trim. If I had two arms like this I'd be a freak of nature I'd be laughing.

It's this bendy one that's fucking me:

@wesacosa I may need to ask you another favour; next time you pass your XM would you check which arm is which and what the park position looks like on yours?

An update on the ABS - I'm told that the single blink I get means that there is an issue with the power relay. I'm not sure what to make of that as I didn't think my car had a relay.

At any rate, that's as far as I got this weekend.

Oh, I also forgot to add that the boot now won't open for some reason.

I'm not sure if the problems are decreasing or increasing on this one...

[wesacosa]

I will have a look at the wipers tomorrow

I sometimes have issues with the handle not opening the boot. I think its something to do with the central locking. It usually fixes with a few lock/unlocks, or should still open with the key

I may be wrong but is the relay mounted on the pump body?

[wesacosa]

[Fumbler]

On 30/11/2023 at 22:53, Rust Collector said:

I had a bash at replacing the capacitors this eve.

I removed those three capacitors, cleaned the board as best I could and soldered 3 replacements on:

Still not working though. Tested the other capacitors and there’s a short at the terminals of this one:

but I’m unsure if that’s to do with the microcontroller.

I removed a capacitor to look at the board damage again:

I think I need to solder a jumper wire between these two tracks:

It’s possibly too far gone to save, but I’ll still give it another go.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but holy oof! Never good when you find advanced burnage like that. With that shorted cap you've found, you'll need to desolder it and then test the same spot on the board and see if there still is a short. With that damaged and burned area though, I'm suspicious of that chip that's mounted to that heatsink. It may have failed short which has caused those tracks to lift and burn up. It looks to me as if it once looked like this:

A fibreglass pen would do wonders in scraping away all the charring and further revealing where everything used to connect to. A schematic diagram would be a godsend in this case.

[Rust Collector]

2 hours ago, wesacosa said:

I will have a look at the wipers tomorrow

I sometimes have issues with the handle not opening the boot. I think its something to do with the central locking. It usually fixes with a few lock/unlocks, or should still open with the key

I may be wrong but is the relay mounted on the pump body?

Thanks mate.

My first instinct was to hammer the central locking but it didn’t seem to help. I’ll try again next time - the boot doesn’t feel properly latched so I’ll try sitting on it too. Maybe it’s not making enough contact or something.

Yeah I’ve just been out and looked after you posted those pictures… relay is on the side of the pump. Fucksticks.

I recently told my mrs that this car would be a quick one 🤣 that’s coming back to haunt me.

[Rust Collector]

1 hour ago, Fumbler said:

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but holy oof! Never good when you find advanced burnage like that. With that shorted cap you've found, you'll need to desolder it and then test the same spot on the board and see if there still is a short. With that damaged and burned area though, I'm suspicious of that chip that's mounted to that heatsink. It may have failed short which has caused those tracks to lift and burn up. It looks to me as if it once looked like this:

A fibreglass pen would do wonders in scraping away all the charring and further revealing where everything used to connect to. A schematic diagram would be a godsend in this case.

Thanks mate - from memory the black area in the centre is a crater in the board 😳 but yes, would be good to clear up the tracks around it. That’s probably been pushed a good couple of months down the line now though as the water pump will take priority along with more XM and Proton fettling.

Interestingly, my battery drain in the Pontiac has disappeared at exactly the same time I’ve pulled the above unit out for repair and then didn’t bother to reinstall it. Could just be coincidence though.

[wesacosa]

7 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

Thanks mate.

My first instinct was to hammer the central locking but it didn’t seem to help. I’ll try again next time - the boot doesn’t feel properly latched so I’ll try sitting on it too. Maybe it’s not making enough contact or something.

Yeah I’ve just been out and looked after you posted those pictures… relay is on the side of the pump. Fucksticks.

I recently told my mrs that this car would be a quick one 🤣 that’s coming back to haunt me.

On mine the boot issue is really odd. you pull the handle and it clicks and depresses and almost feels like its opened it, but the boot just doesn't open. Try the key if the handle doesn't work, but make sure its pushed all the way home or the lock just spins 

[Rust Collector]

Speaking of Pontiacs, the chinesium boot handle arrived recently.

Perfect.

Up until now, the only way to get in the back was to shove my finger in the hole and give it a wiggle.

BEHOLD:

Its not a perfect fit, but it does release the latches

It also doesn’t lock.

I think I could probably build something workable out of the remains of the old lock and this new one, but until I sort the boot struts out I’m not doing anymore fucking around back here. The lack of a lock doesn’t stress me out as if someone wants to get in the car and steal half eaten baby biscuits, a hi vid tabard or some screws of unknown origin then they can have at it.

This was bumming me out:

So I put this back on

Then I closed it and called it a night.

There probably won’t be much action on the Pontiac front now until I sort out a water pump for it.

[Rust Collector]

5 minutes ago, wesacosa said:

On mine the boot issue is really odd. you pull the handle and it clicks and depresses and almost feels like its opened it, but the boot just doesn't open. Try the key if the handle doesn't work, but make sure its pushed all the way home or the lock just spins 

I meant to add in my first reply, predictably the key lock is fucked and the key doesn’t go all the way in - it goes halfway then gets stuck so hard it feels like it will break if you push harder. I’ll spray some silicone lube into it tomorrow if I remember and try again.

[Rust Collector]

Good news everyone!

100 kilos of lardarse sat on the boot whilst mashing the button on the fob cured* it. I will take the boot panel off and grease everything soon.

I also found out how to talk to my ABS ECU. There’s a 30 pin connector below the steering wheel, and earthing pin E1 for set intervals allows you to request blink codes. I found that a power probe was perfect for this

Excuse the shitty photos as they’re screenshots from the video I recorded so that I could review the codes. Helpfully the codes get flashed out on the probe.

After getting reams of codes, I cleared them and was presented with two codes: 31 and 32. RH rear wheel sensor and LH front wheel sensor respectively.

I took some measurements from here:

I can find the two working sensors (I think) measuring 2.6k ohms. I need to check a pinout diagram to make sure that what I think I’m seeing (the other two sensors open circuit) is correct. I’ll also unplug the sensors and test them at the plugs/check continuity etc… I don’t relish the idea of finding replacements but we will cross that bridge when we come to it.

Whilst in here I removed both the ABS and suspension ECU’s. I then noticed that the suspension ECU was rattling inside.

Best open it up then.

It was a right bastard to get in to. It’s sealed with some sort of rubbery foam. I had to use a hammer in chisel to prise the clamshell open, then I had to hack around the connectors with a knife. Amazingly it didn’t get totally annihilated.

This was what was rattling around inside.

looks like some sort of diode. I think it lives here.

It says MR751 ZL9438 on it and has the diode symbol on it. It would appear to be some kind of diode…

My plan was to work out the polarity of the circuit and then solder it back on to the legs, but since googling the number on it I realised I can just buy a replacement component so I’ll probably do that instead.

I also think I have some dry solder joints

So I may have a go at those in anger too.

I feel like it’s one step forward two steps back on this car lately.

Still, I’m finding faults and coming up with plans to solve them so hopefully it’ll all come good in the end.

[wesacosa]

i could never get blink codes to work on mine but never tried with my power probe 

[Rust Collector]

1 minute ago, wesacosa said:

i could never get blink codes to work on mine but never tried with my power probe 

In my head it made sense as it was precise enough to get on to the terminals and had a momentary switch for earthing the pin. It was an unforeseen bonus that the light on the probe would also flash out the code.

That said, every time I look at an 80’s or 90’s ECU I get Kraftwerk’s song Computer Love going through my head on loop, so who knows if my mind can be trusted.

[Rust Collector]

More ECU stuff tonight.

But first! The Land Rover was jealous of all the attention the Citroen was getting, and so it decided to have its number plate drop off.

Using a template* I drilled the plate

and surprisingly my big drawer of fasteners provided some number plate screws

Sorted:

With that sorted I got my power probe out for the millionth time and checked the pins in the suspension ECU plugs to try and determine which way round to put the diode. I am re-using the original for now as I need the car mobile - I can replace the diode later.

Some shonky soldering later:

It’ll do for now.

I cleaned what I can only describe as Satan’s ejaculate out of the sealing area of the case and put everything back together.

I will resell it properly once I know everything is working.

Ive since plugged it in and turned the ignition on - nothing blew up.

It was too late to crank the engine over relentlessly and fire the XUD into life and so we will have to wait until tomorrow to see if everything lifts up as it should.

[beko1987]

Wouldn't it be amazing if that's the smoking gun, hope it works! 🤞

Dry joints never help anyone

[Rust Collector]

1 hour ago, beko1987 said:

Wouldn't it be amazing if that's the smoking gun, hope it works! 🤞

Dry joints never help anyone

Weirdly, despite the damage inside the ECU, I didn't appear to have any issues with the ride height system. It was a bit noisy (as in I could hear relays clicking constantly after opening doors etc.) but it wasn't throwing warning lights. So either it was happy, or the bulb had blown 🤣 The relays aren't as frantic since my 'repair', so maybe it has done something.

I'm hoping the ABS light is as simple* as replacing that sensors or repairing the wiring/cleaning the connectors. I'll find out by the weekend hopefully!

[Stinkwheel]

39 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

Weirdly, despite the damage inside the ECU, I didn't appear to have any issues with the ride height system. It was a bit noisy (as in I could hear relays clicking constantly after opening doors etc.) but it wasn't throwing warning lights. So either it was happy, or the bulb had blown 🤣 The relays aren't as frantic since my 'repair', so maybe it has done something.

I'm hoping the ABS light is as simple* as replacing that sensors or repairing the wiring/cleaning the connectors. I'll find out by the weekend hopefully!

Fairly sure the diode in the suspension ECU was a common work around many years ago, common in the XM community, that fixed* the things going into sport hard mode all the time (this is from memory when i was really into citroens 20 plus years ago now though, so i may be mis remembering.

Glad you are managing to work through it all though.  I feel like the car sort of deserves it. Also, ive remembered this car had a name my ex gave it. It was called Nestor, after this guy.

 

As it was always just sort of giving a gallic shrug and getting on with things 🤣

[Rust Collector]

1 hour ago, Stinkwheel said:

Glad you are managing to work through it all though.  I feel like the car sort of deserves it.

Thanks mate - despite its foibles it definitely is a lovely thing and I think it is very much deserving of seeing the road again.

I have to admit, the sudden increase in work on it was as a result of me actively looking for 'low hanging fruit' in terms of cars that can be recommissioned and then rehomed in order to reduce the ridiculous amount of projects sat around... Working through it methodically is definitely helping my mojo a lot, and I hope to continue the momentum once this car is back on the road.

Let's not think about what it says of the rest of the projects that out of 22 cars, a 28 year old XM with over a quarter of a million miles on the clock seems to be the easiest thing to crack on with at present 🤣