E10 checker tool

[Wilko220]

I see that the govt have launched a new "E10 checker tool" so that those of us driving around in old chod can check whether or not we need to start shelling out for super unleaded.

I don't imagine that will prevent "scrappage scheme numbers" of old cars getting wrecked because owners don't check, or just assume it'll be ok, though...

https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-e10-petrol

 

[Wilko220]

 

Oh.

 

[barefoot]

That's brilliant, looks like my '87 Scirocco '79 bay & '72 beetle are good to go!

Volkswagen

With the exception to those models listed below, which used the first generation FSI engines, E10 is cleared for use in all Volkswagen petrol engine vehicles.

• Bora - 1.6 litre (81kW) FSI Saloon and Estate made from October 2001 to September 2005 
• Golf mark 4 - 1.6 litre (81kW) FSI made from November 2001 to May 2004 
• Golf mark 4 Estate - 1.6 litre (81kW) FSI made from October 2001 to October 2006 
• Golf mark 5 - 1.4 litre (66kW) FSI made from November 2003 to November 2004 
• Golf mark 5 - 1.6 litre (85kw) FSI made from August 2003 to May 2004 
• Golf mark 5 2.0 litre (110 kW) FSI made from January 2004 to May 2004 
• Lupo – 1.4 litre (77kW) FSI made from August 200 to November 2003 
• Polo – 1.4 litre (63kW) FSI made from February 2002 to June 2006 
• Touran – 1.6 litre (85kW) FSI made from November 2002 to May 2004 
• Touran – 2.0 litre (110kW) FSI made from October 2003 to May 2004

NOTE: If your vehicle is listed above you should continue to use E5 petrol. If you are unsure please contact your local VW dealer.

 

[Six-cylinder]

And what about 2001 156 V6?

Alfa Romeo

E10 petrol is cleared for use in all new Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines produced from 1st January 2011.

In addition, E10 petrol is cleared for use in the following Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines:

• MiTo (all engines)
• Giulietta (all engines)
• 159: 1.8 16V, 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Brera: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Spider: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• 8C: 4.7 32V

[warch]

I'm going to wait and see with all this. My Landy is probably not supposed to run on E10, but has been running quite happily on unleaded since the mid 90s despite the panic about valve seat wear that gripped the motoring world back then. Also it will actually run on TVO and other stuff I've found in my shed. 

My Triumph motorbike is supposed to be ok, but probably will throw a strop. It isn't starting especially well at the moment from cold, but I have put that down to occasional usage.

[406V6]

Thanks for posting this. Found that my 406 scrapes into compatibility by a few weeks although I'll still avoid E10 where possible and continue using Super Unleaded.

[SiC]

Most of the modern engines that aren't approved for E10 seems to be the early Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI/FSI/IDE/CGI/etc)

[SiC]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

And what about 2001 156 V6?

Alfa Romeo

E10 petrol is cleared for use in all new Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines produced from 1st January 2011.

In addition, E10 petrol is cleared for use in the following Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines:

• MiTo (all engines)
• Giulietta (all engines)
• 159: 1.8 16V, 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Brera: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Spider: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• 8C: 4.7 32V

I read that as not cleared for E10. The V6 in the 159, others iirc is a GM unit and not the Alfa Busso lump. 

Probably FSA / Stellias didn't have the urge/funds to test other engines. Interesting to note other modern cars they make aren't covered either - e.g. the 4C. 

[SiC]

Saab

All Saab vehicles with petrol engines produced since the mid 1980’s are cleared for use with E10 petrol. Owners of vehicles produced up to the mid-1980s should consult their dealer

🧐

[SiC]

Maserati
No information is available about this brand. Please consult your dealer, the manual or the fuel filler flap for relevant information. When in doubt, it is recommended to use E5 petrol.

FSA really seemed to not be bothered figuring E10 out with their lower volume brands...

[SiC]

I bet it'll probably be fine on many other cars not mentioned or tested (e.g. Rover). 

[Kiltox]

8 minutes ago, SiC said:

Most of the modern engines that aren't approved for E10 seems to be the early Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI/FSI/IDE/CGI/etc)

They break with normal fuel to be fair 

[SiC]

1 hour ago, Six-cylinder said:

And what about 2001 156 V6?

Alfa Romeo

E10 petrol is cleared for use in all new Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines produced from 1st January 2011.

In addition, E10 petrol is cleared for use in the following Alfa Romeo models with petrol engines:

• MiTo (all engines)
• Giulietta (all engines)
• 159: 1.8 16V, 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Brera: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• Spider: 1.8 TBi 16V, 3.2 JTS V6
• 8C: 4.7 32V

Quick Google appears that Alfa say the JTS/TS is not compatible. However it also appears people run E10 without problem...

https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/e10-fuel-in-a-ts-jts.1186891/

I imagine it'll be like running veg in a diesel engine. Fine for a while until the parts degrade.

Iirc Super Unleaded will be staying as E5 max for a good while yet. Esso super is apparently E0 according to their website. I've been filling up with Esso in my classics (and garden machinery) now for that reason, as they have long periods of non use. We're getting a petrol station built in the village and the chain usually put up Esso. Quite excited! (Probably the only one in the village...)

[SiC]

8 minutes ago, Kiltox said:

They break with normal fuel to be fair 

I think there is a good chance they'll mostly be dead by the time E10 is common place! If not, the fuel system will leak and they'll be dead from fire 😁

[Six-cylinder]

1 minute ago, SiC said:

Maserati
No information is available about this brand. Please consult your dealer, the manual or the fuel filler flap for relevant information. When in doubt, it is recommended to use E5 petrol.

FSA really seemed to not be bothered figuring E10 out with their lower volume brands...

That is why there is a pitch fork on the fuel cap to keep out E10!

[LabRat]

That's... Useful. My local mg dealership doesn't even know what an mg6 is, let alone find any info in the owners manual!

I'm hazarding a guess that, since it's essentially a k series, that would be a no then.

[Rod/b]

I’d have thought by this point most of the older pezmobiles will either be in one of two camps - old rammel desperately scraping an MOT year on year, whose owners will put whatever fuel is cheapest in it, and then bin it if it breaks badly, or, real survivors the owners of which will pay a bit more for E5 if they want their rubber bits to last. 
 

I’ve got a 16 year old Saab so i’m alright either way. 🤞🏻

[horriblemercedes]

VW was still making cars in 2005 that weren't compatible with E10?

I really don't get the admiration for that company 

[colino]

The big issue with ethanol in fuel is the property to rot out all sorts of metals, especially aluminium and destroy rubber, not its burning/lubrication properties at all.  Will be a big issue for carburretted cars of all vintages and any that have older fuel pipes that will simply soften and leak.  I suppose letting the insurance companies picking up the tab for burnt-out cars is a better proposal than an expensive scrappage scheme currently for the government. 

[LostnotFound]

Being able to use e10 isn't the same as it being good long term for all applications in my not very educated mind. I'd still rather avoid as much ethanol as possible for any vehicle that isn't being used enough to be topped up regularly with fresh fuel. I'm happy to be educated as to why not of course.

Based on my prejudices I try and use Esso super the VFR especially over winter when we can end up with a cold snap that garages it for over a month, as they still say outside of a few areas it's still ethanol free. 

What is was interesting with that checker is actually Honda say yes but no to using e10 in the VFR, so even when out and about and filling up as needed I guess I'll be migrating to super for all brands to pay extra for the privilege of still having e5 rubbish.

[SiC]

42 minutes ago, horriblemercedes said:

VW was still making cars in 2005 that weren't compatible with E10?

I really don't get the admiration for that company 

Pretty much only the early Direct Injection engines and it's the same problem with other manufacturers too. The early VAG were Fully Stratified Injection (upto late 2004) but that proved problematic and so they lost the Fully Stratified Injection mode (but kept the FSI name). 

Renault IDE engine is direct injection and has the same problems with E10 on that engine. Except their system was so bad, even Renault only managed a year if manufacture before they ditched it entirely. 

As said above  Mitsubishi GDI, Mercedes CGI, VAG FSI, Renault IDE, Vauxhall 2.2 direct injection, Volvo 1.8 GDi (mitsubishi unit), etc all have problems and they're all direct injection. Most manufacturers used indirect injection (i.e. Multiport) for a lot longer. Those that have E10 problems with direct injection were the early adopters of the tech. 

Most new petrol engines now are direct injection. It appears they've figured how to many them play nice with E10 during their development. 

[horriblemercedes]

14 minutes ago, SiC said:

Pretty much only the early Direct Injection engines and it's the same problem with other manufacturers too. The early VAG were Fully Stratified Injection (upto late 2004) but that proved problematic and so they lost the Fully Stratified Injection mode (but kept the FSI name). 

Renault IDE engine is direct injection and has the same problems with E10 on that engine. Except their system was so bad, even Renault only managed a year if manufacture before they ditched it entirely. 

As said above  Mitsubishi GDI, Mercedes CGI, VAG FSI, Renault IDE, Vauxhall 2.2 direct injection, Volvo 1.8 GDi (mitsubishi unit), etc all have problems and they're all direct injection. Most manufacturers used indirect injection (i.e. Multiport) for a lot longer. Those that have E10 problems with direct injection were the early adopters of the tech. 

Most new petrol engines now are direct injection. It appears they've figured how to many them play nice with E10 during their development. 

I'll admit, i didn't look at the models in question but I would've noticed that link if I had! 

I can see quite a few cars from that era having issues soon. I still see plenty of 2.2 Direct Vectras for example 

[SiC]

I think bigger issue for us is pre 2000 fuel injected. The government doesn't seem too bothered about those age vehicle as many are EOL now. However many people on here are happily still running them. These injection systems may not have ethanol designed in mind and many of the plastic parts are already NLA. If we progress to E15 or even E20 in the future, these will potentially be more likely to dissolve. 

Luckily a Megasquirt conversion with new modern parts is an option for most!

[horriblemercedes]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

I think bigger issue for us is pre 2000 fuel injected. The government doesn't seem too bothered about those age vehicle as many are EOL now. However many people on here are happily still running them. These injection systems may not have ethanol designed in mind and many of the plastic parts are already NLA. If we progress to E15 or even E20 in the future, these will potentially be more likely to dissolve. 

Luckily a Megasquirt conversion with new modern parts is an option for most!

I have one petrol car and it's a model that came out in 1996, although it was built in 2002. I checked E10 compatibility before I bought it and the manufacturer's website lists that model as compatible with E10

[artdjones]

Has anyone explained how using farmland to make fuel is a good idea when the population increases every year and there's so much malnutrition in the world.

[Spiny Norman]

So they're not listing Rover or MG but if this is taken at face value it suggests the K series, or the 1.8 version fitted to the Freelander at least, is good to go.

 

[SiC]

2 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Has anyone explained how using farmland to make fuel is a good idea when the population increases every year and there's so much malnutrition in the world.

I can't but I believe @ChinaTomcan.

Something to do with it being the left over residue of the Sugar Beet refining process or something like that. 

[artdjones]

12 minutes ago, SiC said:

I can't but I believe @ChinaTomcan.

Something to do with it being the left over residue of the Sugar Beet refining process or something like that. 

I'm sure that is happening, but in North America it's mainly made from maize or wheat.

Another awkward question.If many millions of cars expire prematurely worldwide, how do the environmental costs of recycling and replacing them compare to the environmental benefits of using E10?

[chaseracer]

2 hours ago, colino said:

The big issue with ethanol in fuel is the property to rot out all sorts of metals, especially aluminium and destroy rubber, not its burning/lubrication properties at all.  Will be a big issue for carburretted cars of all vintages and any that have older fuel pipes that will simply soften and leak.

Part of the planned work for the Dyane is the complete replacement of the nearly-40yo fuel lines with fully compatible gear.  However, it has an all-aluminium engine, so the Illuminati and our lizard overlords are going to get me eventually... 😉

[ChinaTom]

31 minutes ago, SiC said:

I can't but I believe @ChinaTomcan.

Something to do with it being the left over residue of the Sugar Beet refining process or something like that. 

It’s happening all over the world already - Brazil being a great example for sugar cane farming so it can have alternative product to suit the sugar market peaks and troughs. Farmers need to grow cane regardless but it politically tricky when valuing the crop depending on what’s made at the mill and in what proportion. Cane is a good crop for farmers as theoretically it only needs planting every 3 or 4 (up to 7) years. It’s grass and therefore grows back. One expensive year, several profitable ones thereafter.

it gets trickier with smallholders. I’m working on a project in Bangladesh at the moment where a farmer may have only 0.05hectare of land. I don’t know if we can find a socio-agro-politically appropriate solution for getting 1.1 million tonnes of crop in this way. (55 tonnes per hectare roughly).

fascinating stuff but the problems come when cash crops start to bully out the subsistence. Also when huge conglomerates / nationalised agriculture falls foul of market / commodity price swings and farmers don’t get paid. Hence India right now.

full of pitfalls but on the whole should be part of an overall energy solution that conforms to today’s and future definitions of sustainability.

we have competing dynamics of commodities trading, environmental policy and 60% illiterate population to deal with. Plenty for the angry to be angry about and lots of technical and social creativity to be explored.